Joined: 30 Nov 2002 Posts: 777 Location: Trout Creek Montana 342 eGriz Bucks
I feel bad for the Kitty program in all of this, but I can't help but to smile now after remembering some very PC reactions to some of us criticizing the opening act scenerio at the 04 Griz cat game. Accusations of racism etc, from cat fans as well as some of our own PC egrizzers really pi$$ed me off. I remember thinking how is this racist, guys acting like gangbangers on TV and getting called out for it? Sometimes things are as they appear, nothing more.
Joined: 29 Nov 2002 Posts: 6934 Location: Rattlesnake Valley 9230 eGriz Bucks
My observations of Kramer.
Hard working coach with a big personality who wants to win at any cost. His chance to make the big bucks has motivated him. The story that he withdrew his name at Idaho is BS.
Watching a game...the cat players can do any kind of celebration as long as a flag isn't thrown. Once it costs the team he would call them over and read them the riot act.
The App posters on AGS have posted some interesting comments on our state friends after experiencing what we have seen for years from players and fans under Kramer.
I'll find an app state post and you can see what I mean.
Joined: 29 Nov 2002 Posts: 6934 Location: Rattlesnake Valley 9230 eGriz Bucks
Posted by
APP Man on AGS
I suspect more revelations will come to light down the road as to the "quality" of some of the individuals Kramer had recruited. Come on guys, five of his former players have been arrested on drug charges and another has been charged with murder in the past year. Do you honestly think all these guys became bad apples only after leaving the program? If so you have your head in the sand. Lets look at one shining example on the MSU team, Marcosus LeBlanc. LeBlanc played most of the season with felony charges filed against him. The only reason he was able to play was because the trial date had been pushed back until after the season. He was also suspended for two games during the season and was the main culprit responsible much of the hostility on the part of ASU's players during the playoff game. He started running his mouth the second he got off the bus in Boone and escalated the tension between the teams by walking through our pregame warn-ups talking smack and calling some of our players "country nigXXX". All which proved not to be very smart since one guy in particular he singled out, D Tackle Omar Byron, responded with 3 1/2 sacks and was in the MSU QB's face all day. All during the game LeBlanc and several of his pals were making gang signs & gestures to our bench and even had the audacity to single out head coach Jerry Moore for one of his more meaningful gestures. BTW, LeBlanc failed the NCAA mandatory drug test following the game. As a side note, LeBlanc originally signed with Boise State out of junior college, however he barely made it through fall practice before falling out of good graces with the Bronco coaching staff and was asked to leave.
Judging from these incidences and other things I heard from our players there is no way I'd want Kramer coaching my university's team. Obviously there are some mighty fine young men associated with the MSU program, but it is crystal clear Kramer's obsession with wining clouded his judgment enough to bring in some very suspect individuals. It is just sad his bad judgement has made a huge impact on the guys doing the right things and affected the guys on his staff and their families.
On April, 25,2006, there was a post about a fight at Stock's involving Jack McGillis and Alex Hawthorne. A poster claimed that four players jumped McGillis and beat him unconscious. Many egrizers were quick to believe that the FB players were at fault and called for their dismissal from the team.
The police investigation proved that Jack was in Stock's while underage and was the aggressor in the first altercation. He left the bar returned with friends (several guys looking for a fight constitute a gang...only if their pants sag) and assaulted Hawthorne. Alex knocked Jack out. Several patrons jumped in on Jack's behalf and the fight turned into a brawl. A visiting marine jumped in and took cheapshots and not only was not charged but the player assaulted was asked to let the matter drop.
The players were vindicated by MPD but none of the posters who villified them on this board returned to admit to jumping to conclusions. I didn't see Jack and his friends called thugs or gangsters.
Washington was the focus of a rumor on this board and many of the same posters were quick to believe the worst. Jason has turned out to be one of the finest citizens around.
Many of the same posters who were eager to see the worst in Hawthorne, Parks, Hilliard, Wilson, Washington and Clark are back. It makes this observer question their motivation.
I suspect more revelations will come to light down the road as to the "quality" of some of the individuals Kramer had recruited....
Well put by him. App St. fans actually are pretty good, respectful, and knowledgeable... something you wouldn't expect as much after their recent success, but I've been impressed nonetheless.
It doesn't matter Bronco. the cat fans on bobcatnation are about 5-1 against Kramer's departure. They just don't see it...
I think we all need to keep in mind that the regulars on both BN and Egriz are pretty diehard supporters of their respective programs, and may not necessarily reflect the views of the average fan. In other words, I doubt 80% of bobcat fans are opposed to Kramers termination. I know a lot of bobcat boosters that have decided a change might be the best thing for all concerned. They may not say so publicly, for obvious reasons, but in private they are OK with it.
This whole thing is like the script for a bad movie (I remember a couple with the same theme).
The cattle baron (UM) is grabbing up all of the resources (recruits) in the area and the poor townspeople are unable to stop it. The sheriff (Kramer) is overmatched and ineffectual so the townspeople hire mercenary gunslingers (Gangsta athletes) to do the dirty work.
The problem is that the mercenaries are worse than the cattle baron - they help themselves to free booze, haircuts, and women, while generally terrorizing the townspeople and treating them with contempt and disdain.
At some point, the mercenaries drop any pretense of being there to serve the citizens (Gangsta tape). The helpless townspeople turn a blind eye (allow the tape to be aired) and the mercenaries run amok (all the crap), destroying the town and leaving the townspeople worse off than before - and bereft of hope. Oh, and the sheriff? he usually gets shot.
This isn't meant to trivialize the events at MSU, it's a problem that will affect all of us - MSU is just the focal point.
Odd association.
I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts.
..........Mark Twain..........
Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Posts: 550 Location: North Texas 293 eGriz Bucks
Bronco wrote:
My observations of Kramer.
Hard working coach with a big personality who wants to win at any cost. His chance to make the big bucks has motivated him.
I am getting feelings of deja vu as I read some of this discussion. I remember Dennis Ericson's tenure as the coach at Oregon State. He brought a bottom dwelling team to a New Year's Day bowl game appearance, and then proceeded to make a spectacle of himself, the teeam and the institution with the on field behavior of his team.
Guys cheering, laughing and slapping each other, giving high fives when soemone got injured, or when one of their got called for getting a personal foul. The team had the appearance of being recruited from street gangs in Los Angeles.
It realy was a showcase of Dennis Erickson who has a track record of leaving behind messes with the NCAA and the institution to deal with. Kramer appears to be of the same mold as Mr. Erickson, his ambition to advance his career and in a conference where he had to compete with the Griz caused it all.
There is actually a petition on BN to rehire Kramer...They truly don't see a problem---
There are some that are completely enamored with Kramer, because they seem him as the person who resurrected their program. If they want to do a petition, nothing wrong with it, but it isn't going to change things. Fields, Yarnell, and Gamble all signed off on it, and there is not a chance in hell they are going to revers the decision. If you read The Chroincle reports, it sounds as though there could well be more arrests. I think the msu just wants to go in a different direction. I can't imagine what would happen in Missoula, some "fans" put a for sale sign in the coaches yard if the O doesn't score enough.
On April, 25,2006, there was a post about a fight at Stock's involving Jack McGillis and Alex Hawthorne. A poster claimed that four players jumped McGillis and beat him unconscious. Many egrizers were quick to believe that the FB players were at fault and called for their dismissal from the team.
The police investigation proved that Jack was in Stock's while underage and was the aggressor in the first altercation. He left the bar returned with friends (several guys looking for a fight constitute a gang...only if their pants sag) and assaulted Hawthorne. Alex knocked Jack out. Several patrons jumped in on Jack's behalf and the fight turned into a brawl. A visiting marine jumped in and took cheapshots and not only was not charged but the player assaulted was asked to let the matter drop.
The players were vindicated by MPD but none of the posters who villified them on this board returned to admit to jumping to conclusions. I didn't see Jack and his friends called thugs or gangsters.
Washington was the focus of a rumor on this board and many of the same posters were quick to believe the worst. Jason has turned out to be one of the finest citizens around.
Many of the same posters who were eager to see the worst in Hawthorne, Parks, Hilliard, Wilson, Washington and Clark are back. It makes this observer question their motivation.
I guess I missed that story. What marine are you talking about as well? You know he was a Marine, but you don't have a name? Maybe he was pissed about getting extended over in Iraq the next time he goes.
On April, 25,2006, there was a post about a fight at Stock's involving Jack McGillis and Alex Hawthorne. A poster claimed that four players jumped McGillis and beat him unconscious. Many egrizers were quick to believe that the FB players were at fault and called for their dismissal from the team.
The police investigation proved that Jack was in Stock's while underage and was the aggressor in the first altercation. He left the bar returned with friends (several guys looking for a fight constitute a gang...only if their pants sag) and assaulted Hawthorne. Alex knocked Jack out. Several patrons jumped in on Jack's behalf and the fight turned into a brawl. A visiting marine jumped in and took cheapshots and not only was not charged but the player assaulted was asked to let the matter drop.
The players were vindicated by MPD but none of the posters who villified them on this board returned to admit to jumping to conclusions. I didn't see Jack and his friends called thugs or gangsters.
Washington was the focus of a rumor on this board and many of the same posters were quick to believe the worst. Jason has turned out to be one of the finest citizens around.
Many of the same posters who were eager to see the worst in Hawthorne, Parks, Hilliard, Wilson, Washington and Clark are back. It makes this observer question their motivation.
I guess I missed that story. What marine are you talking about as well? You know he was a Marine, but you don't have a name? Maybe he was pissed about getting extended over in Iraq the next time he goes.
Check the egriz archives for April, 25, 2006.
The whole thread is there.
Check with Missoula PD. The detectives identified the marine.
On I guess I missed that story. What marine are you talking about as well? You know he was a Marine, but you don't have a name? Maybe he was pissed about getting extended over in Iraq the next time he goes. It sounds like some, including you, have some facts, some fiction, and a hell of a lot of who gives a F*#k other than you rolling off the tips of your fingers.
Check the egriz archives for April, 25, 2006.
The whole thread is there.
Check with Missoula PD. The detectives identified the marine.
I took the time to check the story.
Settle down there. All he did was question something you posted which DID NOT include any sort of proof in a link.
On I guess I missed that story. What marine are you talking about as well? You know he was a Marine, but you don't have a name? Maybe he was pissed about getting extended over in Iraq the next time he goes.
Check the egriz archives for April, 25, 2006.
The whole thread is there.
Check with Missoula PD. The detectives identified the marine.
I took the time to check the story.
Settle down there. All he did was question something you posted which DID NOT include any sort of proof in a link.
i'm not sure what the UM FB/McGillis fight had to do with any of this. but i do know that after talking with people on both sides of the fight that the "facts" presented here are not entirely accurate. but i can see no good coming about talking about it any more.
The end of fear is where we begin
The moment we decided to let love in
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 2696 Location: Lodi, CA 1447 eGriz Bucks
Bozgriz wrote:
There is actually a petition on BN to rehire Kramer
Not that I believe that this would be in the cards, but it's not unheard of. The Rams fired HC George Allen only to rehire him about a week or so later back in the '60s. I believe that the difference, though, is that Rams' owner Dan Reeves got a wild hair up his butt and had to change his mind due to a near fan riot.
bigsskkyy wrote:
The detectives identified the marine.
How many times to I have to tell you idiots? The term "marine" refers to a specific form of biology. A member of the United States Marine Corps is a "Marine." It's a proper noun. Get it right before a Marine jacks you up, dummy.
It may not be racism, but it is close-minded. To judge someone based on the way they dress or how they talk or their physical attributes after seeing them for what you said was 4 seconds is a bit judgmental. I don't really care that you wound up right. I'm sure you feel self-riteous that you were right. Great. But when you are wrong about someone I hope you are big enough to eat crow. I know I've been wrong about people and that is hard to take but I did.
Joined: 17 Aug 2002 Posts: 2416 Location: Big Sky 1256 eGriz Bucks
A marine would "jack me up" for mispelling a word? I had no idea that marines were so particular about spelling. Maybe we should deploy them to the third grade classrooms.
"GD it, PETAns piss me off! We're never gonna have a stupid Eagle or a faggy Bobcat as a mascot!"
Joined: 21 Dec 2005 Posts: 594 Location: Floating with Magical Unicorns on Candy Clouds 344 eGriz Bucks
Quote:
A marine would "jack me up" for mispelling a word? I had no idea that marines were so particular about spelling. Maybe we should deploy them to the third grade classrooms.
thats funny
We walked down a tunnel, flipped a coin and all hell broke loose. Who ever said it was just a game, didnt step on this field.
You think I like avoiding my wife and kids to hangout with nineteen year old girls everyday? - Beanie
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