Ronbo, no offense, but are you serious? Of course they are serving minors. Bars throughout the state do it on a consistent basis. Especially to well known athletes and females. Have you been in a downtown bar in the last 10-15 years? A majority of the females range in age from 18-20. Is it illegal?, hell yeah, do they get away with it?, for the most part.

"I actually didn't care if you were from Oakland or Fargo or Denver or Cheyenne... fact is, we own lots of guns and know better than to point them at people."

That's funny because I have lived in Montana my entire life and have seen and heard a lot of bad things about guns, including a middle school student from Havre who was recently killed by police officers near Fort Benton because he hijacked a gun from his parents and opened fire on officers, allegedly because his girlfriend broke up with him. I love to hunt birds but I'm not a gun nut and if people don't think bad things happen with firearms in Montana, they are just flat out in denial or misinformed.

Re/MaxGriz wrote:I find it funny that suddenly a bunch of new posters show up or ones who hardly post appear that hide behind an anonomous screen name and claim that Jimmy is a thug, has been a thug and always will be a thug and proceed to make a bunch of claims that have either never been heard of or were dismissed as rumor years ago.

My Name is Gem Toussaint I am 23 years old...please quote me on this

Jimmy Wilson is a thug, has always been a thug and always will be a thug....I have seen it, heard it and been involved with it on more than one occasion. I feel for him, his family, and especially the victim and his family but facts are facts REMAX. Just cuz they suit up for your favorite football team every Saturday does not suddenly discount their character issues. A bad person is a bad person even if they can run fast and jump high, tackle well and make great reads.

Guns don't kill people, people firing guns at other people kill people. I have lived and hunted in Montana my whole life and never, never, have I even thought about pointing a gun at another person and pulling the trigger. Any person who has no problem opening fire at another person is messed up!!!!

Baller1 wrote:I feel for him, his family, and especially the victim and his family but facts are facts REMAX. Just cuz they suit up for your favorite football team every Saturday does not suddenly discount their character issues. A bad person is a bad person even if they can run fast and jump high, tackle well and make great reads.

I don't think Re/Max was ever being blind to the facts. He was just pointing out that many of the people claiming these facts seemed to have a low post count, which was a valid point. Although with the frequency of these types of comments plus the nature of the alleged crime... it's tough to think otherwise at this point.

djollieballs wrote:O'Day AND Hauck should get the axe over this after the season. Those two guys have been letting this stuff slide and at the same time act all tough about training hours and who can be in the bar at the same time.


Here's to Bob and Jim free in '08.

I disagree with the O'Day part because I highly doubt he has the daily interaction with the football players that Bobby does. But honestly, if Kramer can get the boot for what happened in MSU, I see no reason why Bobby shouldn't get some intense heat because the Griz have just as many crooks/shaddy characters on their team than the Bobcats do... in fact, I believe Jimmy was actually on the team when this happened as opposed to the "former" MSU players.

at what point does "post count" make any difference. Is my opinion regarding a particular issue voided because my e-griz moniker states that I am a "bear cub" or whatever post count related ID that we have been assigned. Just because myself and many others sit out of the "Lets Nickname Washington Griz..."The Super Dave, Grizzly Roar, Cats Suck Thunderdome of 1-AA Municipal Stadium Sent From The Grizzly Gods" conversations(forgive my sarcasim) does not mean that what we have to say is any less relevent or should be read with any less respect then what chronic posters say? So please explain the validity of that statement? I'm not tryin to jump all over you Drew but I mean what does post count even matter or have to do with my opinion regarding this issue.

Baller1 wrote:at what point does "post count" make any difference. Is my opinion regarding a particular issue voided because my e-griz moniker states that I am a "bear cub" or whatever post count related ID that we have been assigned. Just because myself and many others sit out of the "Lets Nickname Washington Griz..."The Super Dave, Grizzly Roar, Cats Suck Thunderdome of 1-AA Municipal Stadium Sent From The Grizzly Gods" conversations(forgive my sarcasim) does not mean that what we have to say is any less relevent or should be read with any less respect then what chronic posters say? So please explain the validity of that statement? I'm not tryin to jump all over you Drew but I mean what does post count even matter or have to do with my opinion regarding this issue.

to me 150 posts and being around since 2003 doesn't raise a flag, but a new name from Yesterday with 3 posts tends to send a red flag up on any message board in the country because we've all seen that type of activity.

The posters who use the "post count" in a ridiculous attempt to equate that issue with credibility, are only demonstrating to the entire Grizzly nation that they are indeed only 20-30 "fans", and certainly not representative of the vast and silent majority of thousands who choose not to post on this board.

It is the one who speaks infrequently that commands the respect of the masses.

Hey, I didn't come to heap on you all and pour salt in your wounds. I hope that this will be dealt with the best way possible, and I feel for your school, as well as MSU with the recent trash that a FEW bad men have brought about... When we have had the few run ins in Pocatello, I know it didn't speak about the Athletic Program as a whole. There are bad people everywhere, but Missoula, Poky, Bozeman, or wherever else, are filled with many more good people. I hope this doesn't tear apart your program, and look forward to our games this fall/winter... As much as I hate you guys when we play, the bottom line is you are ISU's conference mates, and I wish the best for you in your endeavors otherwise...

8poky8 wrote:Hey, I didn't come to heap on you all and pour salt in your wounds. I hope that this will be dealt with the best way possible, and I feel for your school, as well as MSU with the recent trash that a FEW bad men have brought about... When we have had the few run ins in Pocatello, I know it didn't speak about the Athletic Program as a whole. There are bad people everywhere, but Missoula, Poky, Bozeman, or wherever else, are filled with many more good people. I hope this doesn't tear apart your program, and look forward to our games this fall/winter... As much as I hate you guys when we play, the bottom line is you are ISU's conference mates, and I wish the best for you in your endeavors otherwise...

Classy post, same to you. And, I apologize for the few who took pleasure in slamming your program a couple of years ago when you were having your problems. The "mob mentality" on this board gets out of hand at times.

djollieballs wrote:O'Day AND Hauck should get the axe over this after the season. Those two guys have been letting this stuff slide and at the same time act all tough about training hours and who can be in the bar at the same time.


Here's to Bob and Jim free in '08.

What in the hell are you talking about??? Why would Hauck get the ax over an isolated incident that happened in another state while a kid was home away from the team. It is not like this was part of an elaborate two-year old conspiracy to sell drugs. It was an incident of domestic abuse and Jimmy chose the wrong way to deal with it. Also isn't it rumored that the gun was accindentally fired? This should in no way affect Hauck's reputation. He has been a good coach, had great recruiting classes and piled up a lot of wins. All with very little off the field issues.

As far as Jason Washington... Why does everyone think he has such great charector? Because he opened up a rim shop? The guy was a total bust and couldn't get over it. He sucked and was wasting a scholarship. He should have been busting his ass, but he let his poor me attitude and total denial of his lack of ability get in the way. Plus he is a huge D-Bag, trust me.

Lastly, what has O'Day done? Scheduled a few cream-puff games. Big deal! If anyone on this board would have actually been fans before 2001 they would realize that this was a common practice in the Don Read era. Look back at the 1995 schedule, we played Minnesotta-Duluth for god's sake. If you want better competition then quit whining about people wanting to move up a division. The athletic program is just being realistic and taking into account the fact that half of our cry-baby bandwagon fanbase, would quit coming to games if we didn't win them all.

With the exception of extremely classy posts by 8pokey8 and a number of Cat fans, this entire thread makes me sick to my stomach.

Call it what it is. A huge mistake the cost one man his life and wrecked another mans life. In addition, you now have two kids who will grow up without a father. It is this kind of tragety makes my heart hurt. Makes me thank god that I grew up in Montana and did not have to face things like this.

glass houses wrote:The posters who use the "post count" in a ridiculous attempt to equate that issue with credibility, are only demonstrating to the entire Grizzly nation that they are indeed only 20-30 "fans", and certainly not representative of the vast and silent majority of thousands who choose not to post on this board.

It is the one who speaks infrequently that commands the respect of the masses.

Sorry glass, but any newbie coming here to ponitificate about what they've known all along.....yet curiously remained silent about for so long.......about anything is going to be treated with a healthy amount of skepticism. It doesn't prove JW's innocence or guilt regarding his "thug" status one way or another.....but any of your posts on the matter are going to be thoroughly discounted.

I made the statement a while back in the post-Kramer aftermath that the good image of the Griz program was in part a matter of good luck. I appears that the good luck ran out and it is unfortunate for all involved. It's also not a real shock that it did. Even the 16 year streak ended despite the belief by some that it never would.

The reality is that given a large enough group of people sampled for any human characteristic, there will be bell shaped curve with some at the extremes and most in between. The same applies for character and integrity of Griz athletes. The result may be skewed a bit, not a perfect reflection of society because a certain amount of filtering occurs in the recruiting process but the process is not scientific nor perfect. Some of the undesireable element will slip through, the extremes of the curve.

The question for Griz football players is will you be able to manage these characteristics well enough to get the people who possess them through their football playing tenure? Certainly there are things you can do but in the end there is also a lot of luck needed. Just consider this incident the end of another streak. Here's to hoping for the next one...

Terrible situation all around. I don't think I ever poked fun at the situation in Bozeman, but i know I used to give ISU some crap on the board a long time ago. I am part of the pot calling the kettle black. For those at MSU and ISU, I guess I have it coming.

I feel for all those involved. A father who won't take his kids fishing or to as ballgame. A young man who may have pissed away his life by killing another man. What the hell happened to just settling it one on one with the fists?

Thens theres a part of me that is pissed on the reputation given to the the Montana university and college system. Being a Montana guy, I have taken pride in that our teams have exhibited sportsmanship and shown our state well to others. I would have clients at my work ask where I went to school and when they heard it was UM, they would talk about how they had great sports for a small school. And now I got people at work asking me about how the state is looking like Miami and FSU.

I guess to end my rambeling, I hope that justice is served to those that are guilty. If it is JW he needs to face the fiddler. If it really is not him, they better get who did the shooting.

Dickenson is God wrote:

djollieballs wrote:O'Day AND Hauck should get the axe over this after the season. Those two guys have been letting this stuff slide and at the same time act all tough about training hours and who can be in the bar at the same time.


Here's to Bob and Jim free in '08.

What in the hell are you talking about??? Why would Hauck get the ax over an isolated incident that happened in another state while a kid was home away from the team. It is not like this was part of an elaborate two-year old conspiracy to sell drugs. It was an incident of domestic abuse and Jimmy chose the wrong way to deal with it. Also isn't it rumored that the gun was accindentally fired? This should in no way affect Hauck's reputation. He has been a good coach, had great recruiting classes and piled up a lot of wins. All with very little off the field issues.

As far as Jason Washington... Why does everyone think he has such great charector? Because he opened up a rim shop? The guy was a total bust and couldn't get over it. He sucked and was wasting a scholarship. He should have been busting his ass, but he let his poor me attitude and total denial of his lack of ability get in the way. Plus he is a huge D-Bag, trust me.

Lastly, what has O'Day done? Scheduled a few cream-puff games. Big deal! If anyone on this board would have actually been fans before 2001 they would realize that this was a common practice in the Don Read era. Look back at the 1995 schedule, we played Minnesotta-Duluth for god's sake. If you want better competition then quit whining about people wanting to move up a division. The athletic program is just being realistic and taking into account the fact that half of our cry-baby bandwagon fanbase, would quit coming to games if we didn't win them all.

This is indeed a sad situation. I have read all the posts on all the boards, BN, AGS, BigSky and now it is time to add a thought or two.

Regarding repsonsibility, ie, who's is it to monitor the actions of the players; I do not expect that every coach will know everything that their players are doing off the field. That would not be realistic. However, somebody should have a clue about a player's personality and proprensity to questionable behavior. Rather that be a teammate or a fellow student. In this day and age nobody wants to be a "rat" or get involved. But the sad result is that most of the people that put themselves in position to be involved in fights in bars, parties involving drug use, around those that are selling drugs all on a CONSISTANT basis are putting themselves at risk for bad things that will follow. I am not so old to expect every student to stay home or in the dorm all the time and not socialize. But I have also been around long enough to know that kids that are constantly in fights in social settings are not going to go unnoticed nor are the kids that are constantly around the drug scene. Somebody knows something!

I will submit that those types of kids (players) ought to be indentified to members of the team, team captains, somebody. Everyone is accountable for their actions including members of the Griz athletics. There is no place for them. I will pay a lot of money out of my own pocket for my daughter to get a good education at UM and I am sickened to hear about athletes that abuse the privilege of a free education and the adulation that comes with being a good athlete.

So don't stick your head in the sand when things happen that you know are wrong. If nothing is done to resolve the bad behavior than tell someone else until you feel that the issue has been addressed. Doing nothing only increases the odds of worse things happening in the long run. Who knows what the result of an intervention would have done in the lives of those young men in Missoula and Bozeman. Somebody will show leadership and address the problem. Failure to do so demands an explanation and the result of severe repercussions.

Now for the positive, I choose to think of those boys like Craig Ochs and many others that brought the message of God to their teammates. Watching our players and members of the opposing team meet in the middle of the field after every game to give thanks is very special to me. On some levels that is the best part of the whole experience for me on game day. I will not let the actions of one take away the pride I feel for the many, many good young men that work their rearends off every day of the year so that we can enjoy our passion for the game on Saturdays.

This to will pass for all the good people of the Bobcat and Griz nation. Hopefully we all will learn something from it so that we don't have to see our beloved state institutions viewed like this again. We must hold each other accountable and be proud of those that exemplify the best of our youth.

GtFllsFan wrote:This is indeed a sad situation. I have read all the posts on all the boards, BN, AGS, BigSky and now it is time to add a thought or two.

Regarding repsonsibility, ie, who's is it to monitor the actions of the players; I do not expect that every coach will know everything that their players are doing off the field. That would not be realistic. However, somebody should have a clue about a player's personality and proprensity to questionable behavior. Rather that be a teammate or a fellow student. In this day and age nobody wants to be a "rat" or get involved. But the sad result is that most of the people that put themselves in position to be involved in fights in bars, parties involving drug use, around those that are selling drugs all on a CONSISTANT basis are putting themselves at risk for bad things that will follow. I am not so old to expect every student to stay home or in the dorm all the time and not socialize. But I have also been around long enough to know that kids that are constantly in fights in social settings are not going to go unnoticed nor are the kids that are constantly around the drug scene. Somebody knows something!

I will submit that those types of kids (players) ought to be indentified to members of the team, team captains, somebody. Everyone is accountable for their actions including members of the Griz athletics. There is no place for them. I will pay a lot of money out of my own pocket for my daughter to get a good education at UM and I am sickened to hear about athletes that abuse the privilege of a free education and the adulation that comes with being a good athlete.

So don't stick your head in the sand when things happen that you know are wrong. If nothing is done to resolve the bad behavior than tell someone else until you feel that the issue has been addressed. Doing nothing only increases the odds of worse things happening in the long run. Who knows what the result of an intervention would have done in the lives of those young men in Missoula and Bozeman. Somebody will show leadership and address the problem. Failure to do so demands an explanation and the result of severe repercussions.

Now for the positive, I choose to think of those boys like Craig Ochs and many others that brought the message of God to their teammates. Watching our players and members of the opposing team meet in the middle of the field after every game to give thanks is very special to me. On some levels that is the best part of the whole experience for me on game day. I will not let the actions of one take away the pride I feel for the many, many good young men that work their rearends off every day of the year so that we can enjoy our passion for the game on Saturdays.

This to will pass for all the good people of the Bobcat and Griz nation. Hopefully we all will learn something from it so that we don't have to see our beloved state institutions viewed like this again. We must hold each other accountable and be proud of those that exemplify the best of our youth.

Not trying to refute what you said.....you make some good points.....but I haven't yet heard (from any reliable source at least) that the JW's actions were carried out in order to further a drug conspiracy. It seems like an extremely tragic loss of someone's temper and emotions.

For those who are griping about the posters on here that
have "known all along" but have remained silent...

I hate to break it to you but on the Grizzly football team there are plenty of kids that are involved in shady activities. There are cocaine users and drug dealers. There are kids who should have received D.U.I.'s but have gotten the charges swept under the rug. I am here to tell you, there are rotten eggs all over the program. Some of these guys are very charming and great players so it's easy to overlook that they may be involved in illegal activities but that doesn't make it right.

For some reason the Missoula community has elevated the football team to such God-like status that everyone (fans, coaches, peers) decide that we should just ignore the wrongs that these guys are committing. We need to realize they should be treated exactly how everyone else is, but their not.

While it's likely true that no program is as squeaky clean as fans would like, to make the accusations you've made just now without providing specific examples is not only irresponsible, but just serves to .

I guess that's only to be expected from someone with your chosen screen name.