jagur1 wrote:Raider could you post a link or the letter? Thanks

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/11/16/letters/letters6.txt

Cats2506 wrote:

jagur1 wrote:Raider could you post a link or the letter? Thanks

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/11/16/letters/letters6.txt

Cats2506, though feeble minded and ornery you showed you have some value to society. Thanks.

AG2 wrote:

GRZFTBL wrote:

AG2 wrote:I can vouch for that guy, swing by and say hi.

I'll have maroon on and not the silver/blue.

Good choice and I will not be at the Olive Garden shoveling pasta into my incredibly fat head, maybe we can chat longer.

OK.

AG2,

I didn't type "SGF"....I don't know what means either. Admin must have edited me, which was probably for the best.

Disregard.

I posted these same comments after the Wilson/Freeman/Quinn situtations and the same is true now.

Griz fans want to point to the UM and MSU situations and say they are "apples and oranges". They are not, they are one and the same and the same thing is likely to happen at UM that happened at MSU. No, BH probably wont' get fired (and I don't believe he should). But what is happening at UM and what is only going to get worse is that more and more people who are anti-college athletics will have a greater say in how sports programs at UM are run.

UM fans you can be in denial all you want, but these situations are not different. If anything, UM's situations have been significantly more violent (granted murder is murder, but that was the only violent situation at MSU). The violent nature of the Freeman/Park/Coleman-Pate-Shelton matters all happening in Missoula is putting many locals on edge. This is only going to increase the demand that every detail of the program be scrutinized and monitored. While that may be the correct thing to do, it generally diminishes a coaches ability to control what is happening with the program and leads to distractions. Also, recruiting can and likely will be affected.

Finally, although no on wants to admit it at UM, these situations will likely have a negative impact on UM's APR leading to similar problems that MSU has experienced. Does anyone really think that these former UM football players are going to recieve degrees from UM. By not graduating, the count heavily against UM's APR.

So call it apples and oranges all you want, but those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I posted these same comments after the Wilson/Freeman/Quinn situtations and the same is true now.

Griz fans want to point to the UM and MSU situations and say they are "apples and oranges". They are not, they are one and the same and the same thing is likely to happen at UM that happened at MSU. No, BH probably wont' get fired (and I don't believe he should). But what is happening at UM and what is only going to get worse is that more and more people who are anti-college athletics will have a greater say in how sports programs at UM are run.

UM fans you can be in denial all you want, but these situations are not different. If anything, UM's situations have been significantly more violent (granted murder is murder, but that was the only violent situation at MSU). The violent nature of the Freeman/Park/Coleman-Pate-Shelton matters all happening in Missoula is putting many locals on edge. This is only going to increase the demand that every detail of the program be scrutinized and monitored. While that may be the correct thing to do, it generally diminishes a coaches ability to control what is happening with the program and leads to distractions. Also, recruiting can and likely will be affected.

Finally, although no on wants to admit it at UM, these situations will likely have a negative impact on UM's APR leading to similar problems that MSU has experienced. Does anyone really think that these former UM football players are going to recieve degrees from UM. By not graduating, the count heavily against UM's APR.

So call it apples and oranges all you want, but those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I posted these same comments after the Wilson/Freeman/Quinn situtations and the same is true now.

Griz fans want to point to the UM and MSU situations and say they are "apples and oranges". They are not, they are one and the same and the same thing is likely to happen at UM that happened at MSU. No, BH probably wont' get fired (and I don't believe he should). But what is happening at UM and what is only going to get worse is that more and more people who are anti-college athletics will have a greater say in how sports programs at UM are run.

UM fans you can be in denial all you want, but these situations are not different. If anything, UM's situations have been significantly more violent (granted murder is murder, but that was the only violent situation at MSU). The violent nature of the Freeman/Park/Coleman-Pate-Shelton matters all happening in Missoula is putting many locals on edge. This is only going to increase the demand that every detail of the program be scrutinized and monitored. While that may be the correct thing to do, it generally diminishes a coaches ability to control what is happening with the program and leads to distractions. Also, recruiting can and likely will be affected.

Finally, although no on wants to admit it at UM, these situations will likely have a negative impact on UM's APR leading to similar problems that MSU has experienced. Does anyone really think that these former UM football players are going to recieve degrees from UM. By not graduating, the count heavily against UM's APR.

So call it apples and oranges all you want, but those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I posted these same comments after the Wilson/Freeman/Quinn situtations and the same is true now.

Griz fans want to point to the UM and MSU situations and say they are "apples and oranges". They are not, they are one and the same and the same thing is likely to happen at UM that happened at MSU. No, BH probably wont' get fired (and I don't believe he should). But what is happening at UM and what is only going to get worse is that more and more people who are anti-college athletics will have a greater say in how sports programs at UM are run.

UM fans you can be in denial all you want, but these situations are not different. If anything, UM's situations have been significantly more violent (granted murder is murder, but that was the only violent situation at MSU). The violent nature of the Freeman/Park/Coleman-Pate-Shelton matters all happening in Missoula is putting many locals on edge. This is only going to increase the demand that every detail of the program be scrutinized and monitored. While that may be the correct thing to do, it generally diminishes a coaches ability to control what is happening with the program and leads to distractions. Also, recruiting can and likely will be affected.

Finally, although no on wants to admit it at UM, these situations will likely have a negative impact on UM's APR leading to similar problems that MSU has experienced. Does anyone really think that these former UM football players are going to recieve degrees from UM. By not graduating, the count heavily against UM's APR.

So call it apples and oranges all you want, but those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Raider wrote:Did anyone read the "Letters to te Editor" in the Missoulian this morning?

Indeed I did. Those who are calling for Hauck to resign for the good of the program are absolutely correct. There was a very discernible and clear trail for those who hired him to follow well before he brought his circus to Missoula. As Neu's recruiting coordinator at CU and Heater's partner in crime at UW, there is a very tangible pattern of cutting corners and building programs with players of questionable repute. Christ, Bobby and Rick were here less than a month before they got whacked with a minor violation for calling Colorado players/recruits to "say goodbye."

As I mentioned in an earlier post, he does not win the games that really matter to a program with the resources Montana possesses. 10 wins against a patty cake schedule and a horrid conference is not excuse to keep an individual who is quickly turning a beloved football program into mockery.

Bob, you got the job only because you happened to be from Montana. I you have any respect for the state and UM you will can yourself immediately.

Some glitch in the system...

doebrmn wrote:Some glitch in the system...

Sure it is you damn cat fan

UM should follow MSU’s lead
Let’s see, the Montana State University administration and athletic department had a great distaste for the recruitment of thugs for their football team and, as a result, decided it was appropriate to fire football coach Mike Kramer. One wonders if the University of Montana has similar scruples. If not, then one must also wonder which university owes an explanation to the people of Montana.

-Jerry Haslip, Victor

This guy is an idiot. If anyone knows him, please let him know that Kramer's firing was mostly academically related... although the criminal stuff was kind of the "straw that broke the camel's back."

Stone Cold,

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried....just like the the arse that wrote that Letter to the Editor. Those of you that know Bobby know whay I am talking about. He is a great guy and a good recruiter. You have no idea the background checks that go into some of these kids....

papagorgio,

I am surprised they still let you post on this board. By they way, nice toss on that tiger head, did it even make it out of the stands rubber-band arm.

Raider wrote:know whay I am talking about.

No, I have a very good idea. The fact remains that Hauck has a trail of dreck behind him and Ty Willingham could step into that padded Montana gig and do just as well. It's time to bring in a proven winner who ices big games and runs a clean program at the same time.

Now, don't you have a fight to duck?

Fight to duck huh??

You are thinking of someone else moron

Raider wrote:Fight to duck huh??

You are thinking of someone else moron

No, he got the right guy.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this AG2. If you have a private place we can meet (someplace were I won't loose my job) please, please please let me know. I can be there in 5

I'm not sure how this PM things works, so I'll leave that up to you.

R

Raider wrote:I don't know how much clearer I can make this AG2. If you have a private place we can meet (someplace were I won't loose my job) please, please please let me know. I can be there in 5

I'm not sure how this PM things works, so I'll leave that up to you.

R

This board is getting really weird over here.

Raider wrote:I don't know how much clearer I can make this AG2. If you have a private place we can meet (someplace were I won't loose my job) please, please please let me know. I can be there in 5

I'm not sure how this PM things works, so I'll leave that up to you.

R

Dude, your going to lose more than your job, I hope you got a good dentist.

I am in Billings right now on my way to Bozeman for the game. I will be back in Msla on Mon.

Yep, I'm sure you punk. The chances of you actually meeting me are slim to none. I know who you are ....you have no idea who is on this end.

Leave more vague responses trying to look tough without actually having to meet me.

doeb, you can say over and over that the situations at the 2 schools are the same, but they are not.

While the legal issues have some similarities, they are also different. The murders are murders, but they are different too, as UM's was more a crime of passion and did not occur in Montana. Yes, the guns, pistol whip and stun gunning of the recent incident or bad. However, that is just one incident, at least so far. MSU's situation involves multiple players and former players in the sale of drugs, including cocaine. At least so far, that is not the case at UM. MSU also has had a coach selling cocaine, and several asst coaches who have been involved with assaults. UM has had no publicized problems with its asst coaches.

MSU's athletes, or one for sure, was using his scholarship money to buy drugs for sale.

However, the major differences are the academic aspects. MSU has had significant problems, including with the ncaa and loss of scholarships. Yes, the "loss" of these guys who will impact UM's academic rating, but I don't believe it will be a huge problem. I admit that I don't have the specific data on that one yet.

I was told, but don't know if it was true, that MSU's recruiting policies were not up to speed in the earlier years when their problem developed. While I suppose UM's were/are not perfect, UM's policies and procedures are fairly good. They may also have been improved/expanded a bit this summer, and the program to communicate better with players while in Missoula was improved. Additional improvements will also be made in the mentoring aspects.

I know something about the recruiting of each of the UM athletes who have gotten into trouble, except Parks. There were no red flags for Wilson or Pate. Coleman's red flags were evaluated, and he came with good recommendations. Shelton didn't have legal red flags, but he too was evaluated. Freeman slipped through the cracks, but I do know that the coaches of his prior team did not tell UM about any issues involving him. I'd like to know when the 2 misdemeanor warrants were issued, i.e. whether before or after he was recuited to UM. My guess is that they come up afterwards. If that's the case, then they really can't be held against UM. Also, I'd like to know whether the record of Freeman's legal issue in Arizona was public or confidential. In any event, UM didn't know about his prior legal issue, is my understanding.

UM has had a horrible series of events since early June. However, they have not had much in the prior 4.5 years Hauck has been at UM. I don't think UM has problems with its recruiting or evaluation of recruits, and I know Hauck won't take someone he thinks will have legal issues at UM. Thus, I attribute UM's bad run of problems to aberrations and bad luck, and not to the failure of the recruiting policies or the coaches. From the support coming from O'Day and Dennison, I think they generally agree with my view.

AG2 wrote:

Raider wrote:I don't know how much clearer I can make this AG2. If you have a private place we can meet (someplace were I won't loose my job) please, please please let me know. I can be there in 5

I'm not sure how this PM things works, so I'll leave that up to you.

R

Dude, your going to lose more than your job, I hope you got a good dentist.

I am in Billings right now on my way to Bozeman for the game. I will be back in Msla on Mon.

This is not as funny as your feud with sgf when he ran out the back door of Mo Club after you showed up with your posse.

If anyone is interested, I'll be beatin' Pols' a$$...again, at our first home playoff game.

But only if I can find him!

For those that miss the above beat down, look for me at the Bronco/Scapegoat/Bozgriz tailgate.

I'll be the only one standing at that one too!!