How did John Edwards almost save DM's arse, DexX asks.

National Chamionship game in rain and slop at Chatty in 2000, vs GaSouthern with Adrian Peterson.

Lots of people look at games started and games won to measure QBs. Drew Miller started, and got hurt, in second quarter I think it was, and by halftime (or shortly before) UM was down 20-3.

Edwards got some life in the O, and with help of a Vince Huntsberger run with a fake punt (he fumbled the snap) that he ran 60-some yards for a touchdown, the Griz were able to take the lead 23-20 late in the game.

ON GS's ensuing possession, for the only time since the first half, the Griz D broke down for just one play, and Peterson went nearly 60 yards for the TD that put GS up 27-23. Later, the Griz stopped GS, and the Eagles, rather than risking a bad snap, a punt block or a rotten punt in the rain and slop, took a safety, betting that UM probably wouldn't be able to kick a FG in the rotten conditions, so it was 27-25.

On the last possession, Edwards threw down the sideline to Farris, who was BEHIND the GS defense. It was just a few inches beyond his reach, otherwise it would have been 31-27 with UM trying to decide what to do on the EP try.

Had Farris caught the pass, and UM wins the national championship under Edwards' leadership, Miller would have gotten credit for being the winning QB in the start... instead, he's the starter in a NC loss.

That's how Edwards almost saved Miller's arse (while picking up a NC).

Didn't say anything about Peterson's questionable fumble into the end zone for the first TD of game, nor about how well UM D adjusted after being burned big time on about 3 option plays.

AllWeatherFan wrote:Swogger was the quarterback last year.

He must have meant to say...In the one game he (Cole) started against SDSU and the couple series he played spelling Swogger.

Not really enought to make that evaluation...


Cole can make every throw on the field (and then some...seriously) any given game...but will he? It's his turn and I really really hope to hell they let him shine. A 5th Year Senior worth weight salt usually will.

Time will tell...the offense should not be the reason for the Griz to lose any games next year, based on talent.

Play calling, management, chemistry....well, that remains to be seen.

Go Griz

kemajic wrote:

RobGriz wrote:The truth is that we could get or possibly already have the next DD or Drew Miller and it wouldn't matter. With the current way the offense is run the poor kid will never get a chance to prove he is worthy of being compared to any of the former great QB's the Griz have had. And I don't believe we will have any QB's in the running for the Payton award until there is a significant change made to how our offense is run.

I don't buy this. The scheme and BH's conservatism may not be supportive, but it does not preclude the QB from making plays. Ochs navigated around it. DD or Miller would have had no problem running their offensive approach out of this scheme. The good ones take the scheme and use it to do what they believe will win. And they will make the plays when the opportunity is there. We haven't seen this lately.

I don't care what you buy. When the highly complicated offense the Griz run is hand off on first, hand off on second, pass on third and long, cause the other teams d coordinator (and everyone in the stands for that matter) is smart enough to know what you were going to do on first and second and called the right defenses, I really don't think there is much of a "scheme". My 7 year old daughter could come up with a better "scheme". Scheme my ass, dream maybe. Now if the QB will step up and audible at the line like Ochs or Miller or DD would or if he is even allowed too do that then yes I would agree with what you are saying. But I stick by my original statement, no QB that wants to throw the ball would take one look at last years O and want to come here and run it. And I have met damn few QBs that don't want to throw the ball. 0, none, zilch, nada...

LakeGriz, Edwards played well in the 2000 game, but he hardly saved Miller's bacon. In fact, some think UM would have won if Miller hadn't been injured.

According to articles I just looked at, Miller was hurt in the first quarter. GS scored early on a fumble recovery in the endzone, and on a pass with about 2:30 to go in the first quarter. I don't know if Miller was hurt before or after that score. Thus, UM was either down 0-7 or 0-13 or 3-13 when Miller was hurt. Miller was about 5-9 for 65 yards.

In the second half, Edwards led one scoring drive late in the third quarter, then Huntsberger had a 65 yard fake punt for a score, and then UM scored after DeCoite forced a fumble at the GS 18.

Edwards played well, but it looks like you got your facts a bit wrong. I'm sure Dex can give us the definitive word, if he is so inclined.

For you offense lovers, UM had 487 yards of offense (to GS' 390), but obviously lost the game.

PlayerRep wrote:For you offense lovers, UM had 487 yards of offense (to GS' 390), but obviously lost the game.

For you stat lovers, they don't always tell the whole story!

Read the post again, PR, I didn't say he saved Miller's arse (or bacon), I said he ALMOST did. And I don't think I "got (my) facts a bit wrong -- I think what you write confirms what I said about Edwards getting things turned around.

And "some think UM would have won if Miller hadn't been injured..."? Well, some think pigs can fly. Fact is, he got hurt -- again -- and some think Miller relieved to walk off the field and leave the sputtering mess to Edwards.

Were you there? I was.

I didn't look anything up, I just recalled how that game went. If you have access to the stats (and facts), see what the offensive totals were at halftime. UM was on the short end of the stick when Miller went out, whether it was first quarter or second. He wasn't getting the job done as far as moving the team. You say Miller was 5 of 9 for 65 yards -- out of 487 yards of offense? You've said it for me.

The first GSU TD came after a huge wingback around end play (I THINK it was a reverse, but it may just have been a counter hand off from the QB) for huge yards into the red zone and possibly inside the 10. Peterson was the guy who carried and fumbled; some of us think he hadn't gotten to the end zone yet, and that the fumble actually was recovered by the Griz (read a sidebar on that). Another GSU TD came on a long pass play where the receiver was at least 20 yards away from any defender. It was embarrassing. There also was a big play involved in the third GSU TD. Peterson had about 100 yards or more by halftime (my recollections, NOT stat facts), and got next to nothing in the second half except for his break-away TD run to restore GSU to the lead. I think it may have been Adam Boomer who had a good shot at him, but AP got away.

Again, if you have access to the stats, look at halftime numbers. Obviously UM was moving the ball to get 487 yards (65 rushing yards on the fake punt) even if the third scoring drive came after a fumble recovery at the 18. As the scores show, UM dominated in the second on defense except for one play, and Edwards was the guy steering the recovery -- better than what Miller had been doing.

That's how Edwards ALMOST saved Miller's arse, because he got the team moving. And of GSU's 390 yards, they probably got more than 200 on the four big plays I mentioned -- three of them in the first half.

grizpack wrote:I am pretty sure that Selle had an offer from Wyoming.

i'm pretty sure you're homer simpson.

And some also think the Griz WOULD HAVE beat Wofford IF ...

... they had made ANY points off two turnovers on Wofford's first two possessions...

... they had run the ball in the second half the way they ran it in the first half...

... CB had hit open receivers in the end zone on two occasions...

... On third and goal at the one a lineman doesn't jump so we wind up settling for a field goal...

... the job had been taken care of so it didn't have to come down to a field goal try.

68, fact is that all Miller got on the board -- at most -- was a field goal.

LakeGriz wrote:And some also think the Griz WOULD HAVE beat Wofford IF ...

... they had made ANY points off two turnovers on Wofford's first two possessions....

No thinking there, thats a fact, my friend!

LakeGriz wrote:And some also think the Griz WOULD HAVE beat Wofford IF ...

... they had made ANY points off two turnovers on Wofford's first two possessions...

... they had run the ball in the second half the way they ran it in the first half...

... CB had hit open receivers in the end zone on two occasions...

... On third and goal at the one a lineman doesn't jump so we wind up settling for a field goal...

... the job had been taken care of so it didn't have to come down to a field goal try.

Sounds like players not plays

Bronco wrote:

LakeGriz wrote:And some also think the Griz WOULD HAVE beat Wofford IF ...

... they had made ANY points off two turnovers on Wofford's first two possessions...

... they had run the ball in the second half the way they ran it in the first half...

... CB had hit open receivers in the end zone on two occasions...

... On third and goal at the one a lineman doesn't jump so we wind up settling for a field goal...

... the job had been taken care of so it didn't have to come down to a field goal try.

Sounds like players not plays

Bronco..c'mon.

I will agree with you to a degree, but that defensive scheme and lack of adjustment cost us that game. Wofford (Carroll - Southern) should have never been in the game.

LakeGriz:

Fact is that Miller was hurt in the first quarter, and didn't play much that game.

Fact is that UM was not down 3-20 when Miller was in the game.

Fact is that your premise, i.e. that Edwards almost saved Miller's bacon, was not correct.

Fact is that at least one other person agrees with me that UM would have won with Miller.

PlayerRep wrote:LakeGriz:

Fact is that Miller was hurt in the first quarter, and didn't play much that game.

Fact is that UM was not down 3-20 when Miller was in the game.

Fact is that your premise, i.e. that Edwards almost saved Miller's bacon, was not correct.

Fact is that at least one other person agrees with me that UM would have won with Miller.

I think the Griz would have won had Miller not been injured. The defense struggled in that game, but I don't recall the the Griz O struggling with Miller at QB. But I was sitting five rows up on the north 40 yard line that game. Maybe my view wasn't as good as Lake's.
Jimmy Farris was standing below us on the sideline gazing at the locker room like he was trying to will Miller to walk back onto the field and play. I don't think Jimmy thought Johnny Montana was saving anyone's bacon.

PlayerRep wrote:LakeGriz:

Fact is that Miller was hurt in the first quarter, and didn't play much that game.

Fact is that UM was not down 3-20 when Miller was in the game.

Fact is that your premise, i.e. that Edwards almost saved Miller's bacon, was not correct.

Fact is that at least one other person agrees with me that UM would have won with Miller.

Fact is, your "facts" are opinions. Quit "correcting" every poster on the board. Did your mother beat you or something? Why don't you give us all a break and start following Dartmouth or something? I'm sure they will appreciate your "facts" much more than we do.

PR, you should look for a Twist contest to enter, because you really work at it.

Here's what I said:

1. "Lots of people look at games started and games won to measure QBs. Drew Miller started, and got hurt..."
Just as baseball pitchers get measured by how many games they start and how many they win, lots of people measure football quarterbacks in the same manner. Miller started the national championship game and got hurt, and the Griz were behind when he got hurt. IF Griz come back and win, Miller gets to list that as a game started, and game won. That would have been Edwards saving Miller's arse -- not his bacon.

2. "...Miller started, and got hurt, in second quarter I think it was, and by halftime (or shortly before) UM was down 20-3." I'm working from a seven-year-old recollection, rather than looking at articles or stats, and I qualified by statement by saying "in the second quarter, I think..." You want to jump on the "fact" that he was hurt in the first quarter. OK, he got hurt in the first quarter rather than the second. Then you go on to say "Fact is that UM was not down 3-20 when Miller was in the game."
That's another twist by YOU. Just where did I say that UM was down 20-3 when Miller was in the game? I didn't. I said by halftime or shortly before, UM was down 20-3 -- said NOTHING about Miller being down 3-20, you made that up.

3. You claim that "Fact is that your premise, i.e. that Edwards almost saved Miller's bacon, was not correct."
Another twist by you. You are WRONG. UM never led while Miller played. Griz did take a 23-20 lead in second half under Edwards, and had a shot at another TD to regain the lead after GSU went up 27-25. So Edwards ALMOST did save Miller's arse from being the starting quarterback in a national championship game the Griz lost.

4. Now comes your final LAME twist effort: You write: "Fact is that at least one other person agrees with me that UM would have won with Miller."

What? Where did I write that UM would not have won with Miller. What I DID WRITE was that Edwards almost pulled out the game. That's a fact -- he got them into their one and only lead.

You had somebody agree with you that UM would have won with Miller. That IS TOTALLY unrelated to what I said. Nice twist try, and it doesn't change the outcome.

What '68 Griz said was "...for the rest of my life, I will BELIEVE the Griz WOULD HAVE won fairly easily IF Drew hadn't gotten hurt."

He's stating his opinion, and everybody has one, but that doesn't make it a FACT.

And then WA Griz offers his OPINION. "I think the Griz WOULD HAVE won had Miller not been injured..." And he's also trying to read Farris' thoughts, apparently.

I'm not into mind-reading.

Fact is that Miller started, got hurt, Griz were trailing when he left and did not return; under Edwards in the second half the Griz came back to briefly take the lead. Had they won, Miller would have been listed as the starting quarterback in NC victory (my original point). Didn't happen.

So, UM's national championships were both won in games where starting quarterbacks were ... Montana HS graduates. Anothber one of my points. Not drop-downs, not transfers.

Apparently you weren't at that game. I was, as were '68 Griz and WA Griz. I'll honor their opinions about WHAT IF, because they were there and have an opinionn about what they saw.

If you weren't there, go Twist, shut up, and keep reading the articles. I've wasted too much time on you.

LakeGriz wrote:Read the post again, PR, I didn't say he saved Miller's arse (or bacon), I said he ALMOST did. And I don't think I "got (my) facts a bit wrong -- I think what you write confirms what I said about Edwards getting things turned around.

And "some think UM would have won if Miller hadn't been injured..."? Well, some think pigs can fly. Fact is, he got hurt -- again -- and some think Miller relieved to walk off the field and leave the sputtering mess to Edwards.

Were you there? I was.

Again, if you have access to the stats, look at halftime numbers. Obviously UM was moving the ball to get 487 yards (65 rushing yards on the fake punt) even if the third scoring drive came after a fumble recovery at the 18. As the scores show, UM dominated in the second on defense except for one play, and Edwards was the guy steering the recovery -- better than what Miller had been doing.

That's how Edwards ALMOST saved Miller's arse, because he got the team moving. And of GSU's 390 yards, they probably got more than 200 on the four big plays I mentioned -- three of them in the first half.

Just the fact that you even wrote that shit shows you don't know Drew Miller one damn bit. Anyone that thinks that Drew was relieved to leave that game is just stupid. That kid would have never and I mean NEVER left that game if he could have played. And if Edwards would have won that game Drew would have given credit where it was due. That being said, there is not nor should there be a doubt that had Drew been in that game the Griz would have won. If you think otherwise great, but please let others have a hit of what your smokin'.

I just recall about three trips to the red zone late in the game with no scores. Couldn't kick field goals because there was 6" on water on the field. I somehow think the experienced Miller would have found a way to get one of them into the end zone.

But I'm sure PR will correct me....

Downwiththefoe wrote:Clint Stapp is from Colorado:

Interesting comments from a Missoulian article announcing his verbal....what would he say today? What would a recruit say today about the Montana System (My original point lost in the SGF slam session)


Stapp completed 126 of his 249 passes for 2,198 yards this season, according to the Boulder Daily Camera. He threw for 25 touchdowns against six interceptions, and led Niwot to the Class 3A state semifinals. Niwot has 1,162 students, and sits in Colorado's third-highest classification.

Stapp is another Boulder County product, like Craig Ochs (Fairview), who threw for 3,807 yards as a Griz senior last fall.

"That definitely made it an attractive place," Stapp said. "They run a lot of shotgun. They like to roll out, throw the ball a lot. They can do a lot of things. It's a very versatile offense. The offense is perfect."


Stapp chose Montana over Drake and San Diego, and apparently had no interest in going to Holy Cross, where his brother Brion played QB.

"I didn't really want to go back East," Clint Stapp told the Daily Camera. "It was an easy decision. You can't pass up an opportunity to play for a national championship."

Nothing against Stapp..but Montana was his only real offer- the other "Offers" as I recall were non-scholarship schools.

I believe Cole was a similar type signing for the Griz, wasn't he?...Larson (who I think is a Great kid, and a lot of great playmaker instincts) was a Grey shirt and Selle was only being recruited by the cats.

good research. i don't recall this, but it's always interesting to see what players say about the school and then see what the reality is. we not only don't run that type of offense, but he probably won't be the starting qb here. next year it'll be cole and the year after stapp will be a senior competing with selle and larson, who will be juniors. so i'd think the coaches would prefer selle or larson unless stapp is decidedly better. then either selle or larson is out of the mix. just the way it goes.

Remax, except for the point that I do not think Hartman was anywhere near good enough to start at UM.