Post subject: Why are other Big Sky teams getting better QBs than us?
minot11 eGriz Newbie
Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Beautiful, Balmy, North Dakota 21 eGriz Bucks
I subscribe to Rivals.com. I noticed today that Portland State has received a verbal from the Number 47th ranked QB in the country. His name is Kramer Hagen, from Sacramento. Northern AZ also received a commitment from a two-star ranked QB, Trey Graham, from Chandler, AZ.
My question is this.....how are these two schools able to get ealey commitments from these stud QBs, and Bobby has not been able to get one yet? I understand that Hauck is recruiting a two-star QB, but will ne be able to get him? Is Glanville a better recruiter? Could it be that the PSU offense is more enticing to a QB than this mess we run? Could it be that our 5-year history of poor offenses is causing us recruiting problems in getting great QBs? Food for thought.
Post subject: Re: Why are other Big Sky teams getting better QBs than us?
Downwiththefoe *eGriz Donor*
Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 4651 Location: NE corner of the NEZ 6635 eGriz Bucks
minot11 wrote:
I subscribe to Rivals.com. I noticed today that Portland State has received a verbal from the Number 47th ranked QB in the country. His name is Kramer Hagen, from Sacramento. Northern AZ also received a commitment from a two-star ranked QB, Trey Graham, from Chandler, AZ.
My question is this.....how are these two schools able to get ealey commitments from these stud QBs, and Bobby has not been able to get one yet? I understand that Hauck is recruiting a two-star QB, but will ne be able to get him? Is Glanville a better recruiter? Could it be that the PSU offense is more enticing to a QB than this mess we run? Could it be that our 5-year history of poor offenses is causing us recruiting problems in getting great QBs? Food for thought.
Comments?
Sadly, and I hate even typing this...but it's becoming more and more obvious to me as a fan (trying to bea a realist) and obviously, to recruits, Our offense is as about as dull as a blunt butter knife at a Truck Stop T-Bone steak eating contest.
If I was a D-1 QB prospect, would I come to Montana?
"No"
Not now... 5 -10 years ago...absolutely, today...? No.
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But of course, I repeat myself..."
-Samuel L. Clemens
Post subject: Re: Why are other Big Sky teams getting better QBs than us?
minot11 eGriz Newbie
Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 26 Location: Beautiful, Balmy, North Dakota 21 eGriz Bucks
Downwiththefoe wrote:
minot11 wrote:
I subscribe to Rivals.com. I noticed today that Portland State has received a verbal from the Number 47th ranked QB in the country. His name is Kramer Hagen, from Sacramento. Northern AZ also received a commitment from a two-star ranked QB, Trey Graham, from Chandler, AZ.
My question is this.....how are these two schools able to get ealey commitments from these stud QBs, and Bobby has not been able to get one yet? I understand that Hauck is recruiting a two-star QB, but will ne be able to get him? Is Glanville a better recruiter? Could it be that the PSU offense is more enticing to a QB than this mess we run? Could it be that our 5-year history of poor offenses is causing us recruiting problems in getting great QBs? Food for thought.
Comments?
Sadly, and I hate even typing this...but it's becoming more and more obvious to me as a fan (trying to bea a realist) and obviously, to recruits, Our offense is as about as dull as a blunt butter knife at a Truck Stop T-Bone steak eating contest.
If I was a D-1 QB prospect, would I come to Montana?
"No"
Not now... 5 -10 years ago...absolutely, today...? No.
Joined: 23 Dec 2002 Posts: 3281 Location: Somewhere between angry and catatonic... 3031 eGriz Bucks
If I was a high school QB, I would certainly be agreeable to playing in an offense where I got to throw the ball 50+ times per game...PSU is going to get those kids-
"They shouldn't throw at me. I'm the father of five or six kids."-second baseman Tito Fuentes
"We are Montana, that other school down the road is State. They haven't earned the right to use the word Montana in their name." Just paraphrasing of course?
Why are other programs getting better QBs than us? That is a 2 edge sword. The last few years FR QBs have been given starting opportunities. The last time the GRIZ did that was with Bergquist, which I thought as a FR did a solid job, considering the circumstances. Bergquist did a good job this year too, and should be outstanding his SR year.
I think us as fans are pressing more than the coaching staff. BH recruited Stapp, Larson, and Selle. At the time considered very good gets for the GRIZ. BH owes it to them to be given the opportunity to be the starting GRIZ QB. Adding another body or bodies to that equation would not look good for future GRIZ QB recruits. The coaching staffs knows much better than any fan what each QB's future is. I honestly think they are staying put and confident in the current QBS. If we do get a QB commit this year, it will be one willing to wait a few years to start.
Recruiting a good QB this year is not essential. However, next year I am sure they will be pressing hard for potential QBs. We have more need at other positions to address 1st this year. Hell who knows what HS SO and JRs they have already targeted.
Also until our offensive game planning and execution changes recent history is not and will not be favoring the GRIZ. Where or who the problem lies with I have no idea, but it has to change!!! We have no idea if it is BH being stubborn and overriding RPs calls or if it is RP flat out not having any creativity. Either way, the results have been inconsistent at best offensively.
I for one am not one bit worried regarding the lack of QB recruits this year. Next year though, I will really begin to wonder if we have next to no interest. Right now this bodes well for Stapp, Selle, and Larson. They personally cannot ask for anymore from Hauck other than him putting faith in each. It looks to me as if he is doing exactly that.
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I'm not so sure other teams are getting better QB's, it's just that it is so hard for a QB to excel in Phenicie's system, too damn complicated. Then you have Hauck horning in and changing half of phens calls, WTF?? How do you expect any continuity in that situation?
Our QB's are fine, Bergquist, Selle and Larson. It's the scheme, plus Haucks micromanagement, thats the problem!
The truth is that we could get or possibly already have the next DD or Drew Miller and it wouldn't matter. With the current way the offense is run the poor kid will never get a chance to prove he is worthy of being compared to any of the former great QB's the Griz have had. And I don't believe we will have any QB's in the running for the Payton award until there is a significant change made to how our offense is run.
Joined: 29 Nov 2002 Posts: 6934 Location: Rattlesnake Valley 9230 eGriz Bucks
Even the most simple plays are designed to score a TD. If one or more players miss their assignment it breaks down and the play is stopped.
It's always the players not the plays.
Wonder how the Bears would have done with a good QB last year.
Green Bay in the 60's had very simple plays with great players. Everyone knew they were going to see the Green Bay sweep and they couldn't stop it.
Chuck Knoll when he had a dozen players going to the hall of fame was proclaimed a genius. After they left he never won a championship again...Same plays
We had a 12 year run of exceptional QB's..until we get one again expect the same outcome.
Bears defense got them a winning season but they ran into an exceptional QB in the super Bowl and they lost.
Not the plays...always the players. The Wooford coach was quoted as saying the same thing in his pregame talk to his team.
I think it was our QB that missed two TD's on throws in the playoff game. Just needed one of those plays to win the game.
Why are other programs getting better QBs than us? That is a 2 edge sword. The last few years FR QBs have been given starting opportunities. The last time the GRIZ did that was with Bergquist, which I thought as a FR did a solid job, considering the circumstances. Bergquist did a good job this year too, and should be outstanding his SR year.
I think us as fans are pressing more than the coaching staff. BH recruited Stapp, Larson, and Selle. At the time considered very good gets for the GRIZ. BH owes it to them to be given the opportunity to be the starting GRIZ QB. Adding another body or bodies to that equation would not look good for future GRIZ QB recruits. The coaching staffs knows much better than any fan what each QB's future is. I honestly think they are staying put and confident in the current QBS. If we do get a QB commit this year, it will be one willing to wait a few years to start.
Recruiting a good QB this year is not essential. However, next year I am sure they will be pressing hard for potential QBs. We have more need at other positions to address 1st this year. Hell who knows what HS SO and JRs they have already targeted.
Also until our offensive game planning and execution changes recent history is not and will not be favoring the GRIZ. Where or who the problem lies with I have no idea, but it has to change!!! We have no idea if it is BH being stubborn and overriding RPs calls or if it is RP flat out not having any creativity. Either way, the results have been inconsistent at best offensively.
I for one am not one bit worried regarding the lack of QB recruits this year. Next year though, I will really begin to wonder if we have next to no interest. Right now this bodes well for Stapp, Selle, and Larson. They personally cannot ask for anymore from Hauck other than him putting faith in each. It looks to me as if he is doing exactly that.
This thread (and a good one I note) is less about bringing in more QBs this year, and more about the accountability of QBs already brought in. Ours do not compare to the young QBs we have seen around the BSC this year. A lot of the reasons were stated in the original post as questions. Most are valid. The question is why have we not done as well as some comparatively lame programs in the BSC? The questions needs to be addressed. We claim to have recruiting advantages. It isn't getting done.
I like to look at the Stars as a guideline, but thats all that they are. The are an opinion about how scout or another recruiting company think.
USC gets 4 and 5 star ath every year that do not pan out, IE its not an exact science.
In the case of the MSU QB 3 star, he is a JC transfer who has been told that the job is his to lose. That would not be the case at UM
With PSU and NAU, you will throw the ball 50 times a game
To answer your question- I dont think the Griz are looking very hard for a QB. There are 4 on the roster and I believe they all now have scollies. To put a 5th Scolly at the QB possition whould be unheard of for a Non BSC school.
That being said if a stud QB became available- I doubt that BH would say no.
Fat, Drunk and Bobcat is no way to go through life son!
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The truth is that we could get or possibly already have the next DD or Drew Miller and it wouldn't matter. With the current way the offense is run the poor kid will never get a chance to prove he is worthy of being compared to any of the former great QB's the Griz have had. And I don't believe we will have any QB's in the running for the Payton award until there is a significant change made to how our offense is run.
I don't buy this. The scheme and BH's conservatism may not be supportive, but it does not preclude the QB from making plays. Ochs navigated around it. DD or Miller would have had no problem running their offensive approach out of this scheme. The good ones take the scheme and use it to do what they believe will win. And they will make the plays when the opportunity is there. We haven't seen this lately.
Last I checked a players "star" ranking on Rivals.com doesn't make someone a better player than another, that can only be proven on the field.
You cannot say other schools are getting better QBs constantly than UM because:
1. We haven't seen our latest recruits during a regular season, Selle, Stapp or Larson - how can we pass judgement on them before we've even seen them play?
2. We also haven't seen their latest recruits play a college game either. Wasn't the guy that transferred to Weber from Alabama last year a very high ranked High School player? He couldn't cut it at 'bama and couldn't even figure out Weber's playbook...
3. Many good freshman QBs in the Big Sky seem more of "flash in the pan" players than good overall players, for example Jason Murietta. Being a great QB usuall doesn't just happen over one good season, it's having 2 or 3 (or even 4).
If I was a high school QB, I would certainly be agreeable to playing in an offense where I got to throw the ball 50+ times per game...PSU is going to get those kids-
if this is the case we need to start focusing on our defensive coverage not our QB's.
I don't respond to posts I haven't read, including the link. There is not a QB on the list of 2 one stars and 3 two stars. This is a QB thread; not a general recruiting thread; there are several of those already.
Why aren't the Griz able to get stud HS qbs? That's how I understand this thread.
1. Our unexciting, baffling, unproductive offense, and who really does run it?
2. Our propensity to go get drop-down qbs.
Modern-era history (starts w/DD)
DD, starter 93-95, recruited out of HS by Read. (NC, 95)
Ahyat, starter 96-98, recruited out of HS by Read.
Then what?
99-00, DROP DOWN Drew MIller, from BYU, by Mick
99-02, John Edwards, recruited out of HS by Mick (NC, 01)
99---, Nick Walker, recruited out of HS by Mick, and transferred to Dickinson State (and had a good career there) when he read the writing on the wall.
01-02, DROP DOWN, Brandon Neill, from Wyo, by Joe
didn't get a smell in '02 loss to MSU when Edwards couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
2003:
DROP DOWN, Ochs, Colorado, Joe's or BH's?
TR from JC, Jeff Disney (redshirted under Joe?)
HS recruit, Justin Hartman, by Joe, grey shirt
HS recruit, Kyle Samson, by BH?
(IN 9-4 season, Ochs (132 pass efficiency) was in 9 games, Disney (106 effic) 6, Hartman (121 effic) 5, and Samson (-6.24 effic) 10.
After the season, Samson would go to Northern with his dad, and Hartman disappeared to reappear at Western)
2004, Ochs and Disney.
Somewhere in here, Andrew Selle's older brother, who was recruited out of Billings West, gives up and TR to Carroll without ever throwing a pass, I think.
2005:
DROP-DOWN, Jason Washington from Miami Ohio or whereever.
HS recruit, pure frosh, Bergquist by BH
2006:
DROP-DOWN, Swogger, from Wash State
Bergquist, sophomore, 9 games
HS recruit, Clint Stapp from Colo, throws 6 passes all year., , and holds on kicks
2007:
Berguist, junior
HS recruit, Andrew Selle, freshman, 22 passes
HS recruit, Jeff Larson, greyshirt, 6 passes
Stapp, sophomore, ZERO passes, holds on kicks.
HOW long do you think this hot-shot recruit will continue to stay with two seasons of eligibility and nothing on offense?
Do you see a pattern here w/BH?
03-- Ochs and Disney
04-- Ochs and Disney
05-- Washington
06-- Swogger
07-- nil
If you were a Stud HS qb, why would you take a UM offer when four of the five seasons have gone to drop downs?
FACT IS:
Both national championships have been won by Montana HS products who were recruited out of HS.
Ochs almost broke the mold in 2004.
Edwards almost saved Miller's arse in 2000.
Ahyat ran into Randy Moss.
Yes, I see a pattern. Minot makes up his "facts", and certain other posters don't know what they're talking about. This is a continuing and disturbing pattern.
Bergquist was second team all-conference this year, and had a completion percentage of about 62%. All this in a terrible offense, where no qb other than Craig Ochs in his second year can possibly succeed.
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