Don't want to further exhaust an already tired subject but I'm writing an article on the whole FCS to FBS thing and wanted to conduct the most recent poll. So, yeah, to move up or not to move up. Also, if any boosters, community members, lifelong fans, whatever are willing to pm or email (colinokeefe@gmail.com) me with their comments, name and however you'd describe yourself, that would be greatly appreciated.

It's not just Football for me. I'd like to see our Basketball programs get into a higher profile Basketball Conference so they would have a chance for a 6 or 7 seed. As it is in the Big Sky we were lucky to get a #12 a few years back and a #14 to #16 is the norm.

Isn't this question irrelevent given that there is a moratorium against moving up until 2011 (or something like that)? On second thought, maybe not. If the Griz were to move, it would probably take that long to get everything in order (extra women's sports, more scholarship money, permission to leave the cats behind, etc.)

FCS football doesn't get exciting until November. Big Sky basketball is barely clinging to an autobid to the NCAA tournament.

IMO . . . It won't happen until after the South campus indoor practice facility is built and UM can afford to double the coaches salaries (at least), so I am guessing 10 years. With that said, in 10 years if UM has won 20 CONSECUTIVE BIG SKY CHAMPIONSHIPS then it will be pathetic if they don't move. Or . . . UM could break the streaks and slip into Big SKy mediocrity, in which case moving to a better conference would not be an issue.

It's enevitable with Georgia Southern, Missouri State, Youngstown State, Western Kentucky (already gone), App. State, Texas State, Jacksonville State all moving up shortly after the moratorium.

The cream is leaving. I'd be surprised if we were left behind for long.

The question is not if, it's when. So get used to the idea.

Not that I think my opinion means a hill of beans but I have ambivalent feeling regarding this issue. On the one hand I love IAA/FCS playoff football and the quality of football at the national level in this division.

On the other hand I can't help but think the Griz have outgrown the Big Sky Conference and in some aspects even the FCS in general. Scheduling has become a nightmare for UM because they can't find mid level FBS teams that are willing to risk playing the Griz and/or can't afford to make the payout that the Griz can earn by hosting a game in Wa/Griz. FCS teams want home/home arrangements (and are reluctant to sign contracts without them and huge opt out guarantees) but can't afford to pay the Griz enough to meet travel costs let alone the kind of money the Griz program has become dependent upon to run its machine. Hence Montana is stuck playing home games against DII opponents that are not even competitive or challenging. Top that off with a less than competitive Big Sky Conference and the Griz end up entering the playoffs untested and underprepared for the playoff caliber teams.

At least a move to an FBS conference like the WAC would ensure that Montana has quality opponents within reasonable traveling distances (excluding Hawaii) available to them. Surely the Griz would no longer be the big fish in a small pond and would more than likely take their share of lumps every year but we as fans would be able to see big name teams in Wa/Griz on a regular basis instead of the patsys we have been growing accustomed to seeing the last few years at home.

I think that there are many good reasons to move up, as stated above. However, what would it be like?

- Scenario 1 - The Griz are lucky enough to get accepted into the WAC. Other WAC teams' fans raise Holy Hell that they would let in such a low caliber team to drag down the conference - just when they were starting to get an inkling of respect.

- Scenario 2 - The Griz and many of the top FCS teams move up when and if the moratorium is lifted. The NCAA upper-muckity-mucks get pressure from the really big sports' schools to split the FBS into top schools and the rest of us schmucks. Former FBS teams still get no respect.

- Scenario 3 - The Griz move up. Previously (prior to move-up) dissatisfied fans grow more unsatisfied. Mobs ensue - calling for heads to roll in the Griz fiefdom. Football revenues plummet as fair-weather fans stay home and travel to less and less away games.

Are Griz fans expectations exceeding reality? What does it take to make a Griz fan happy?

Maybe it is just a matter of time. I will still follow the Griz. If there are years of 2 and 10 seasons, will you still be there to cheer?

My .

Bud, I think each of your scenarios is possible ... and none of them is very positive. I have long been a vocal advocate of remaining in the FBS, for umpteen reasons, and I remain in that camp. However, I am beginning to see the arguments for the other side, although, to be totally honest, I think most of them aren't realistic. If the Griz were to move up, I think it would be years and years before they could equal their success of the past decade or so ... and the fans would be long gone before that success recurred.

'68griz wrote:Bud, I think each of your scenarios is possible ... and none of them is very positive. I have long been a vocal advocate of remaining in the FBS, for umpteen reasons, and I remain in that camp. However, I am beginning to see the arguments for the other side, although, to be totally honest, I think most of them aren't realistic. If the Griz were to move up, I think it would be years and years before they could equal their success of the past decade or so ... and the fans would be long gone before that success recurred.

I too am beginning to see the positives in moving-up. However, I keep coming back to "we have to watch what we ask for - we just might get it." There are still more cons in my cons pile than there are pros in my pros pile...

TheBud wrote:I think that there are many good reasons to move up, as stated above. However, what would it be like?

- Scenario 1 - The Griz are lucky enough to get accepted into the WAC. Other WAC teams' fans raise Holy Hell that they would let in such a low caliber team to drag down the conference - just when they were starting to get an inkling of respect.

- Scenario 2 - The Griz and many of the top FCS teams move up when and if the moratorium is lifted. The NCAA upper-muckity-mucks get pressure from the really big sports' schools to split the FBS into top schools and the rest of us schmucks. Former FBS teams still get no respect.

- Scenario 3 - The Griz move up. Previously (prior to move-up) dissatisfied fans grow more unsatisfied. Mobs ensue - calling for heads to roll in the Griz fiefdom. Football revenues plummet as fair-weather fans stay home and travel to less and less away games.

Are Griz fans expectations exceeding reality? What does it take to make a Griz fan happy?

Maybe it is just a matter of time. I will still follow the Griz. If there are years of 2 and 10 seasons, will you still be there to cheer?

My .

Griz move up ... lose games (fans freak out) ... stadium half filled and fights in the parking lot.

- Scenario 1 - The Griz are lucky enough to get accepted into the WAC. Other WAC teams' fans raise Holy Hell that they would let in such a low caliber team to drag down the conference - just when they were starting to get an inkling of respect.

The WAC and their fans would welcome us with open arms. We outdraw 60% of their schools and would probably beat them too. We would be their #1 choice in all of FCS.

- Scenario 2 - The Griz and many of the top FCS teams move up when and if the moratorium is lifted. The NCAA upper-muckity-mucks get pressure from the really big sports' schools to split the FBS into top schools and the rest of us schmucks. Former FBS teams still get no respect.

I'm hearing that the BCS schools wouldn't do that for economic reasons. They need to fill their home schedules with Mid Major schools for big profits. Really they already have this scenario without changing a thing.

- Scenario 3 - The Griz move up. Previously (prior to move-up) dissatisfied fans grow more unsatisfied. Mobs ensue - calling for heads to roll in the Griz fiefdom. Football revenues plummet as fair-weather fans stay home and travel to less and less away games.

2007 attendance for former FCS schools.

UConn is up to 38,000 from 14,000 in I-AA, WKU is up to 17,000 from 9000 in I-AA, Troy is up to 21,000 from 16,000 in I-AA, Fla. Atlantic is up to 16,000 from 7000 in I-AA.

We could lose a few thousand fair weather fans that would be quickly replaced by more sophisticated sports fans that enjoy watching a high level of football that Wash. State, Hawaii, Utah, BYU, and Boise State would bring to Wash/Griz. The huge danger is a drop off in the Griz winning in FCS because if we start posting 5-6 seasons against ISU, UNC, PSU, and Sac. State the stadium will drop to 50% attendance in 3 years.

Thanks for the comments and votes so far. Once again, if anyone wants to put a name (and maybe a role like "Griz fan for X years" or "proud GSA member") that would be much appreciated and can be done so via pm or emailing colinokeefe@gmail.com. So far I just have one and I want to try avoid quoting people anonymously.

I hate the idea, but it may be the only guaranteed way of getting rid of Hauck and his ilk.

no1uno wrote:I hate the idea, but it may be the only guaranteed way of getting rid of Hauck and his ilk.

Why do you think that?

ronbo wrote:

- Scenario 1 - The Griz are lucky enough to get accepted into the WAC. Other WAC teams' fans raise Holy Hell that they would let in such a low caliber team to drag down the conference - just when they were starting to get an inkling of respect.

The WAC and their fans would welcome us with open arms. We outdraw 60% of their schools and would probably beat them too. We would be their #1 choice in all of FCS.

- Scenario 2 - The Griz and many of the top FCS teams move up when and if the moratorium is lifted. The NCAA upper-muckity-mucks get pressure from the really big sports' schools to split the FBS into top schools and the rest of us schmucks. Former FBS teams still get no respect.

I'm hearing that the BCS schools wouldn't do that for economic reasons. They need to fill their home schedules with Mid Major schools for big profits. Really they already have this scenario without changing a thing.

- Scenario 3 - The Griz move up. Previously (prior to move-up) dissatisfied fans grow more unsatisfied. Mobs ensue - calling for heads to roll in the Griz fiefdom. Football revenues plummet as fair-weather fans stay home and travel to less and less away games.

2007 attendance for former FCS schools.

UConn is up to 38,000 from 14,000 in I-AA, WKU is up to 17,000 from 9000 in I-AA, Troy is up to 21,000 from 16,000 in I-AA, Fla. Atlantic is up to 16,000 from 7000 in I-AA.

We could lose a few thousand fair weather fans that would be quickly replaced by more sophisticated sports fans that enjoy watching a high level of football that Wash. State, Hawaii, Utah, BYU, and Boise State would bring to Wash/Griz. The huge danger is a drop off in the Griz winning in FCS because if we start posting 5-6 seasons against ISU, UNC, PSU, and Sac. State the stadium will drop to 50% attendance in 3 years.

Ronbo, the above is probably the most right post you have ever made in my opinion. I agree with you completely.

I do not get pissed at this subject. I get pissed when I start thinking of how far back the BSC holds us back. I get pissed at the anti move up fans that will not even hear any logic to this subject.

Damnit people, the GRIZ have outgrown the BSC. Hell we are THE BSC!!!!! The reward for being the king is next to nothing. Damnit people, we belonged in this conference up to 2000. Damnit we are no longer living the in the 1900's. Industries, sports, technologies, everything is moving into the 21st century, except the GRIZ!!!!

To those that would bail ship if the GRIZ were to struggle, well that goes to show the extent of how much of true fan you are or are not. For the fans that bleed 100% GRIZ blood, they will not and should not jump ship!!!! I would not and neither would my best friends and family. If you do jump ship, this or any program does not need your fairweathered spoiled attitude at any level.

A true fan is not someone that jumps ship over W's and L's. Granted as frustrated as I get with any of my teams losing, I have never jumped ship with any of them. As long as the programs/teams treat me, my friends, and family and try as hard as they can, I will support them. My opinion is that a True fan of any team will not jump ship in bad times, and is with that team through thick and thin. If you cannot do that, then you are not a true fan in my mind. If you do not agree with me, fine. I will accept and respect your opinion but will not 100% accept you as a true GRIZ fan. (flame away if you like, I do not care and am sick of the attitude of not challenging this program to highest extents!) That is the kind of attitude that leads to others passing one by.

Speaking of BY and byes, as for this fan is concerned "GOOD BYE to the BSC, and Good Bye to the fairweathered fans." We will see you again as long as we are winning.

Downwiththefoe wrote:Why do you think that?

He can barely make it in the FCS.

no1uno wrote:

Downwiththefoe wrote:Why do you think that?

He can barely make it in the FCS.

If by barely make it you mean compile a winning record, go to the playoffs every year during his tenure, and go to one chipper, then yes, he can barely make. God, I wonder how the other half live!

Fun trivia: Bobby Hauck has a better winning percentage w/ Montana than Jerry Moore does with Appy State!

Another fun factoid: Jerry Moore had never been to a national championship w/ Appy State until 2005! That's 16 years of missing the playoffs or losing in the playoffs. Boggling!!!

Quick question, where are the streaks at right now for playoffs and big sky titles?

MrTitleist wrote:

no1uno wrote:

Downwiththefoe wrote:Why do you think that?

He can barely make it in the FCS.

If by barely make it you mean compile a winning record, go to the playoffs every year during his tenure, and go to one chipper, then yes, he can barely make. God, I wonder how the other half live!

Fun trivia: Bobby Hauck has a better winning percentage w/ Montana than Jerry Moore does with Appy State!

Another fun factoid: Jerry Moore had never been to a national championship w/ Appy State until 2005! That's 16 years of missing the playoffs or losing in the playoffs. Boggling!!!

BE CAREFUL, they hate facts.

anyone know where I can get an attendance average from 1985???

Nichols State
@ Nebraska
@ UTEP
New Mexico
@ Nevada
San Jose State
@ Idaho
Boise State
Hawaii
@ Fresno State
Louisiana Tech
@ Utah State

I picked a random WAC team, (New Mexico State), and looked at their schedule. I don't know, from a fan's point of view, that looks like a pretty fun schedule. Not to mention that with 20-25 MORE FULL-RIDE SCHOLARSHIPS there aren't the same "We have no talented RB", "We have no depth at CB", "We finally have solid DT's but now we have questionable talent at DE" arguments that Griz fans face now.

Give UM a legit indoor practice facility, remodeled locker rooms, and a 30,000 capacity stadium and there's no doubt that we could recruit some seriously talented players here with 85 scholarships and a decent conference affiliation. UM would be very competitive and fans would love it whether they want to admit it or not.

Hawaii gets record $4.4M for Sugar Bowl (AP)

The University of Hawaii will receive nearly $4.4 million for playing in the Sugar Bowl, a record payout to a non-Bowl Championship Series school. Hawaii is expected to net about $2.2 million after expenses associated with playing in the New Year's Day game against Georgia, school and Western Athletic Conference officials said.



after reading htis...I can think of lots of rea$ons to move up.

Let's face it- a deep run into the playoff's is the only thing the fans seem to get really excited about...and the first round losses are really starting to become a drag.

It's time for a change, how much fun would that WAC or Mountain West Schedule be? Friday Night ESPN games

To those who anguish over the prospects of no more 10 win seasons if the Griz were to move up, I say if that's your yardstick for a successful program perhaps the move should be downward into DII or the NAIA where the lust for dominating a conference, any conference, would be virtually assured year after year in perpetuity.

Question: Would any rational Griz fan trade a road trip to Hawaii and the beach at Waikkiki for rainy Sacramento (or Ogden, or Cheney, or Pocatello, or Greeley, or Portland) and a "crowd" you can count on the fingers of both hands? ...It's time for the Griz, masquerading as Snow White, to abandon the 7, now 8, dwarfs and move on. Now is the time to plan for it.

Silvertip wrote:Question: Would any rational Griz fan trade a road trip to Hawaii and the beach at Waikkiki for rainy Sacramento (or Ogden, or Cheney, or Pocatello, or Greeley, or Portland) and a "crowd" you can count on the fingers of both hands? ...It's time for the Griz, masquerading as Snow White, to abandon the 7, now 8, dwarfs and move on. Now is the time to plan for it.

With every trip to Hawaii there's a trip to Las Cruces, Moscow, Logan, or Rustin.