I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Results of over taxing business.
Fewer jobs.
Higher prices on goods.
Both result in a tax increase for the poor.
And a third result could be fewer consumers buying a higher priced American product and buying Chinese. Thus putting more American Companies out of business.
I have a feeling Democrat ReMax has a Corporation for his Real Estate business. Obama's plan to cut deductions for Corporations will affect all Corporations across the board. Small businesses and Mega Businesses.
How do you feel about losing some of the deductions you depend on ReMax?
I have a feeling Democrat ReMax has a Corporation for his Real Estate business. Obama's plan to cut deductions for Corporations will affect all Corporations across the board. Small businesses and Mega Businesses.
How do you feel about losing some of the deductions you depend on ReMax?
First of all ... what corporate deductions is he going to cut? Do you know? Can you explain them? How well do you understand this concept? Better than the other twenty or so that you have proven to be completely lacking in correct facts about?
And second ... I know this might be a foreign concept, but some people really aren't so shallow and selfish that they would vote against somebody merely because their own taxes might go up as a result. Just as some people might not vote for a guy who promises to cut their taxes. Some people actually care more about the good of the country than their own wallet, and when your country has been cutting taxes and increasing spending (including on wars), a true patriot won't be the one demanding another tax cut -- they will be wanting to sacrifice on their own to help pay for those wars and to keep the country economically viable.
After all, having more American dollars doesn't mean much when they become worthless due to the government being unable to pay its own bills (and we are well on the way to that right now).
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
I have a feeling Democrat ReMax has a Corporation for his Real Estate business. Obama's plan to cut deductions for Corporations will affect all Corporations across the board. Small businesses and Mega Businesses.
How do you feel about losing some of the deductions you depend on ReMax?
First of all ... what corporate deductions is he going to cut? Do you know? Can you explain them? How well do you understand this concept? Better than the other twenty or so that you have proven to be completely lacking in correct facts about?
And second ... I know this might be a foreign concept, but some people really aren't so shallow and selfish that they would vote against somebody merely because their own taxes might go up as a result. Just as some people might not vote for a guy who promises to cut their taxes. Some people actually care more about the good of the country than their own wallet, and when your country has been cutting taxes and increasing spending (including on wars), a true patriot won't be the one demanding another tax cut -- they will be wanting to sacrifice on their own to help pay for those wars and to keep the country economically viable.
After all, having more American dollars doesn't mean much when they become worthless due to the government being unable to pay its own bills (and we are well on the way to that right now).
Come on you know Obama, he is never specific. He does however say in his speeches that he will increase corporate taxes by eliminating business tax loopholes which is a political term for business deductions. These deductions are in fact available to all businesses. The $30,000 a year Mom and Pop business and Exxon. Who will be hurt worst? Mom and Pop I'll guarantee you.
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
You are full of crap. You're seeing right now in the supermarket. Companies make 20% on average and when expenses rise they just raise the prices to maintain the bottom line.
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 1425 Location: New York City 561 eGriz Bucks
ronbo wrote:
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
The question of who bears the burden of the corporate income tax is actually a fairly interesting question, from a tax policy perspective. You're right to point out that corporations are not the ones who ultimately bear the burden -- if you think about it, it would be nonsensical to argue that corporations actually bear the burden of the tax, because corporations are not real people. Corporations write the check to the IRS, but ultimately, the actual burden of the tax has to fall on real, living people. The question is, who? Is it really consumers (as you argue), or is it someone else? And as with everything else in economics, the answer is, "it depends."
The first thing you have to recognize is that, unless a particular business offers a good or service that has a completely inelastic demand curve, it cannot simply "tack a tax increase onto" the price of its goods, and pass it along to consumers. Why? Because an increase in the price of a good will generally result in decreased demand for such good, which may or may not render the good unprofitable. Corporations may try to pass tax increases on to consumers, but ultimately, the market will determine what price a company can charge for its products. Thus, to argue that consumers bear the entire burden of the corporate income tax is overly-simplistic.
So who does bear the burden of a corporate tax increase? I would argue that it's a combination of: (1) consumers (to the extent that the increase does result in higher prices), (2) shareholders of corporations (to the extent that the increase results in lower profit margins), (3) workers (to the extent that the tax increase causes corporations to raise profits, resulting in decreased demand for products, which ultimately results in layoffs), (4) raw material suppliers (for the same reason as in (3)), and (5) probably others that I'm not thinking of right now, but following the same line of thinking.
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it." --Voltaire
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
The question of who bears the burden of the corporate income tax is actually a fairly interesting question, from a tax policy perspective. You're right to point out that corporations are not the ones who ultimately bear the burden -- if you think about it, it would be nonsensical to argue that corporations actually bear the burden of the tax, because corporations are not real people. Corporations write the check to the IRS, but ultimately, the actual burden of the tax has to fall on real, living people. The question is, who? Is it really consumers (as you argue), or is it someone else? And as with everything else in economics, the answer is, "it depends."
The first thing you have to recognize is that, unless a particular business offers a good or service that has a completely inelastic demand curve, it cannot simply "tack a tax increase onto" the price of its goods, and pass it along to consumers. Why? Because an increase in the price of a good will generally result in decreased demand for such good, which may or may not render the good unprofitable. Corporations may try to pass tax increases on to consumers, but ultimately, the market will determine what price a company can charge for its products. Thus, to argue that consumers bear the entire burden of the corporate income tax is overly-simplistic.
So who does bear the burden of a corporate tax increase? I would argue that it's a combination of: (1) consumers (to the extent that the increase does result in higher prices), (2) shareholders of corporations (to the extent that the increase results in lower profit margins), (3) workers (to the extent that the tax increase causes corporations to raise profits, resulting in decreased demand for products, which ultimately results in layoffs), (4) raw material suppliers (for the same reason as in (3)), and (5) probably others that I'm not thinking of right now, but following the same line of thinking.
Yes I was being over simplistic. Take the oil companies as an example. Do you think the wind fall profits tax will be paid by Shell? No, the prices at the pump will rise once again. That tax will be paid by the middle class and poor. Food costs will be another big cost increase for consumers. These things are nesessities. You bite the bullet and pay. In other consumer goods as the prices rise people just turn to cheaper Chinese made goods and put more of our Companies out of business.
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 1425 Location: New York City 561 eGriz Bucks
ronbo wrote:
Yes I was being over simplistic. Take the oil companies as an example. Do you think the wind fall profits tax will be paid by Shell? No, the prices at the pump will rise once again. That tax will be paid by the middle class and poor. Food costs will be another big cost increase for consumers. These things are nesessities. You bite the bullet and pay. In other consumer goods as the prices rise people just turn to cheaper Chinese made goods and put more of our Companies out of business.
Yes, food and gas are necessities, but that does not mean that consumers' actions are not influenced by prices.
Let me ask you this: if you really think grocery stores and oil companies have the ability to raise their prices without affecting demand for their products, then why should they wait for a tax increase? Under your economic model, if everybody just doubled their prices for everything right now, they'd make a killing, right? So why don't they do so?
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it." --Voltaire
Joined: 17 Aug 2002 Posts: 2392 Location: Big Sky 1232 eGriz Bucks
ronbo wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
ronbo wrote:
jagur1 wrote:
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
You are full of crap. You're seeing right now in the supermarket. Companies make 20% on average and when expenses rise they just raise the prices to maintain the bottom line.
I have a business, and my gas expenses are rising. So I can just raise my prices and make more money?
Thanks, thats great news. I appreciate the insight. I wish I had thought of that years ago.
"GD it, PETAns piss me off! We're never gonna have a stupid Eagle or a faggy Bobcat as a mascot!"
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
You are full of crap. You're seeing right now in the supermarket. Companies make 20% on average and when expenses rise they just raise the prices to maintain the bottom line.
If you really believe that the grocery business is operating at 20% margins then say Hello for me to the Easter Bunny, Santa, Snow White, etal. They operate on net margins of between 5-6%. If you want to verify it, just look up one of their annual reports.
Yes I was being over simplistic. Take the oil companies as an example. Do you think the wind fall profits tax will be paid by Shell? No, the prices at the pump will rise once again. That tax will be paid by the middle class and poor. Food costs will be another big cost increase for consumers. These things are nesessities. You bite the bullet and pay. In other consumer goods as the prices rise people just turn to cheaper Chinese made goods and put more of our Companies out of business.
Oil companies are a perfect example to use to prove how wrong your theory is. Oil prices are determined by two things: Supply and demand.
Oil companies do NOT have the ability to artbitrarily set prices wherever they want to make the amount of profit they want. They sell their product for what the market will bear (and they always sell it for as much as they can, regardless of their profit margin).
The only way a windfall profits tax would impact the price of gas is if the tax was so huge that it discouraged oil companies from putting all of their oil on the market (or discouraged them from exploring for and finding new oil reserves, which is a very valid concern). That would lower supply and therefore increase prices.
But absent there being an impact on either supply or demand, price is not impacted.
I have NEVER been in a meeting where a company was talking about the impacts of increased tax rates on their business, and somebody suggested that we merely raise prices to keep margins up (by passing along those costs to the customers). That person would be mocked, and then fired, and then mocked some more.
I have a feeling Democrat ReMax has a Corporation for his Real Estate business. Obama's plan to cut deductions for Corporations will affect all Corporations across the board. Small businesses and Mega Businesses.
How do you feel about losing some of the deductions you depend on ReMax?
First of all ... what corporate deductions is he going to cut? Do you know? Can you explain them? How well do you understand this concept? Better than the other twenty or so that you have proven to be completely lacking in correct facts about?
And second ... I know this might be a foreign concept, but some people really aren't so shallow and selfish that they would vote against somebody merely because their own taxes might go up as a result. Just as some people might not vote for a guy who promises to cut their taxes. Some people actually care more about the good of the country than their own wallet, and when your country has been cutting taxes and increasing spending (including on wars), a true patriot won't be the one demanding another tax cut -- they will be wanting to sacrifice on their own to help pay for those wars and to keep the country economically viable.
After all, having more American dollars doesn't mean much when they become worthless due to the government being unable to pay its own bills (and we are well on the way to that right now).
Come on you know Obama, he is never specific. He does however say in his speeches that he will increase corporate taxes by eliminating business tax loopholes which is a political term for business deductions. These deductions are in fact available to all businesses. The $30,000 a year Mom and Pop business and Exxon. Who will be hurt worst? Mom and Pop I'll guarantee you.
I am willing to bet you your entire net worth that when Obama says "corporate loopholes" he is not talking about limiting all business expenses in general. That's not what people mean when they say that sort of thing.
I may not agree with particular proposals that he is making (or will make), but I know enough to realize that your interpretation is far, far from the mark.
And I am almost willing to bet that any corporate tax changes he proposes will be those that impact only the larger corporations.
You can be sure that any economic proposals coming from Hillary or Obama will be very, very careful to look out for the little guy, as that is the thrust of their entire message. It's strange that you keep beating this "Democrats are going to screw the little guy" drum when there is absolutely no evidence of that at all, and that it actually runs completely counter to their own and their party's themes.
You must have missed the memo ... Democrats are out to screw rich people, remember?
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
You are full of crap. You're seeing right now in the supermarket. Companies make 20% on average and when expenses rise they just raise the prices to maintain the bottom line.
If you really believe that the grocery business is operating at 20% margins then say Hello for me to the Easter Bunny, Santa, Snow White, etal. They operate on net margins of between 5-6%. If you want to verify it, just look up one of their annual reports.
I know grocery stores operate at a smaller margin. I was referring to product makers. 20% is an average estimate. Some manufacturers make more, some make less. Shell Oil just reported a 7.5% profit.
Back to Super Markets. You do realize they use all expenses including business deductions such as depreciation of buildings and equipment to calculate their bottom line. So their 5% can be much more in real dollars. You are in Real Estate GB1, you know your profits on your rentals is much more than your final bottm line on your tax return shows. This is why keeping business deductions is so important, it allows small business to keep their doors open. You eliminate business deductions to punish Big Business and you'll see downtowns like Missoula become ghost towns with boarded up store fronts.
Business deductions for corporations are not going anywhere, ronbo.
Depreciation deductions for corporations are not going anywhere, ronbo.
Nobody is proposing doing away with any of these deductions, ronbo, including Obama.
You are making hysterical straw man arguments, ronbo.
Why don't you find a proposal that somebody has ACTUALLY MADE, and then opine on that. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Unless, of course, we should all just make up some fairy tales about what we think candidates will do even if they haven't said they will do it (I think McCain is going to invade Russia!!!!! McCain is crazy because he wants to invade Russia!!!!).
I'm with you on this one so I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff.
Maybe, If they tax the rich and corporations the tax will trickle down to the poor people as the price of goods go up. Hows that one?
You are right on the money. Tax the corporations and they don't foot the bill. They trim costs by reducing jobs and then they tack the tax increase on to their goods so the everyday man pays the tax bill.
Funny.
Apparently you missed it the first couple times, but ... companies don't have the ability to "pass along costs" to customers in the form of higher prices.
You are full of crap. You're seeing right now in the supermarket. Companies make 20% on average and when expenses rise they just raise the prices to maintain the bottom line.
If you really believe that the grocery business is operating at 20% margins then say Hello for me to the Easter Bunny, Santa, Snow White, etal. They operate on net margins of between 5-6%. If you want to verify it, just look up one of their annual reports.
I know grocery stores operate at a smaller margin. I was referring to product makers. 20% is an average estimate. Some manufacturers make more, some make less. Shell Oil just reported a 7.5% profit.
Back to Super Markets. You do realize they use all expenses including business deductions such as depreciation of buildings and equipment to calculate their bottom line. So their 5% can be much more in real dollars. You are in Real Estate GB1, you know your profits on your rentals is much more than your final bottm line on your tax return shows. This is why keeping business deductions is so important, it allows small business to keep their doors open. You eliminate business deductions to punish Big Business and you'll see downtowns like Missoula become ghost towns with boarded up store fronts.
You posted supermarkets so I corrected your numbers is all. I certainly understand EBITDA (not to the level BAC probably does). Business deductions are not going to simply evaporate.
One more thing you are incorrect about. I am not in the Real Estate business, I just happen to own some income producing rental properties. Re/Max is the Real Estate guy.
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