There's no fear. I think many Griz fans are looking for that excitement that comes with being the underdog again. We have beaten up on the Big Sky Conference for many, many years. The best thing about the "Streak" ending was that it renewed the excitement of the Cat/Griz game. It meant something again because we knew that it wasn't just going to be another ass-kicking every single year. We haven't seen the true jubilation of victory at a Griz game in quite some time. If you attended the early season games last year, the crowd wasn't fired up. It was just a different feel. It takes something away from the season when you have to wait until November for excitement...

PlayerRep wrote:My recollection is that Joyce was hoping for offers from CU and KSU, but had some lesser I-A offers. Thus, I think his situation was relevant. etc.

It also helped that one of his HS coaches was a former Griz

NorthwestFresh wrote:

AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen wrote:Here's the end result of an article I described in an earlier thread.

http://www.grizzoulian.com/2008/05/arti ... o-the-fbs/

That is a very thorough article and pretty much shows how moving to FBS would be impossible for at least, what, 8 years or so?

I find it refreshing that Appy State isn't even considering moving up. Could it be because they are surrounded by FBS schools and would have to fight for recruits to be even an average FBS team? As it is now, they get some mid-to-low level FBS talent just by offering the opportunity to win titles. The Griz get the same sort of athlete from the NW. There is no reason to move up and struggle to be a .500 team.

Very well written and researched article.

At this point App has the best of both worlds. We don't have to compete with the local FBS schools for talent, but still have the opportunity to measure ourselves against at least one upper division school a season.

We play the big boys because Coach insists on it. Usually don't win, (Michigan was the first FBS team we beat that wasn't named Wake Forest!) but it's more for the team and the fans than for the "W".

It just plain generates excitement. I remember how psyched everyone was before the Michigan game. NO ONE thought we would win, but knew it would be fun.

I understand Montana is in a different situation than we are (travel expenses, etc) , but it seems to me that scheduling at least one FBS game a year (even if the school doesn't make as much money as a home game) would help stop some of the "Why don't we move up" griping. That way you get your BSC Championship, high playoff seed AND the excitement of playing the big boys.

Bozgriz wrote:There's no fear. I think many Griz fans are looking for that excitement that comes with being the underdog again. We have beaten up on the Big Sky Conference for many, many years. The best thing about the "Streak" ending was that it renewed the excitement of the Cat/Griz game. It meant something again because we knew that it wasn't just going to be another ass-kicking every single year. We haven't seen the true jubilation of victory at a Griz game in quite some time. If you attended the early season games last year, the crowd wasn't fired up. It was just a different feel. It takes something away from the season when you have to wait until November for excitement...

My sentiments exactly. Last year was the most lackadaisical and timid atmosphere the stadium has had in 4 years and it was an undefeated regular season team. Though a few of the games were close, it never seemed like UM would lose. Maybe a couple of regular season losses this year will fire up the atmosphere, but I think that being a legit underdog for a handful of games would provide a rally point and a real shot of excitement to the fans, and probably the team too.

Grizbacker1 wrote:

elkmcc wrote:

Grizbacker1 wrote:

elkmcc wrote:

AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen wrote:Here's the end result of an article I described in an earlier thread.

http://www.grizzoulian.com/2008/05/arti ... o-the-fbs/

Nice work Colin. I can't help but feel that this administration at UM have their respective heads in the sand on this issue. Some of O'days comments are really head scratchers. Personally I am tired of the No. Colorado's and Sac State's but O'day gives me the impression that DII programs like Fort Lewis are the future of OOC games at WGS. If that is the case I seriously doubt that I will be a part of it.

Elk,

I would hate to see you stop going, but there is a waiting list for tickets, so it doesn't appear you are going to make any statement if that is your motive. On the other hand, say the Griz do move up, have the inevitable losing seasons, there will be tickets aplenty so you can return. I will be rooting for the Griz either way, just as I did in Dornblaser when the team and facilities were sub standard. Once a Griz, Always a Griz.

I think you misunderstood me GB1. I think you know it would be a stretch for me to miss the Griz/Cat game or even EWU, NAU, WSU and PSU (I'm not giving up my tickets yet) but the noncompetitive games are more like watching YMCA soccer than DI football. I haven't missed a game in WGS in over 16 years but I could see where a September day flyfishing on the Bitterroot or elk hunting in the Pintlars might sound more appealing than a game against Fort Lewis.

IMO Montana should be scheduling home and home games with the GSU's YSU's and ASU's instead of the DII teams we have been seeing in WGS. The Griz have the budget to allow it and should be making it a reality. IMO it is very myopic of O'day to fail to understand and address this issue.

Elk,

Thanks for clearing it up for me. I certainly did misunderstand you. I agree with the DII's for the most part, but also realize most of them were NOT scheduled by O' Day. I have posted multiple times that in years the Griz play a DII that they also play an FBS school, otherwise nothing but FCS schools. I think that O' Day should send a simple postcard to each season ticket holder and ask them if they would pay a premium ticket price so that UM could begin scheduling the APP States, GA Southerns, McNeese, YSU's and really make it a day to rival cat/Griz. Your thoughts.

I agree wholeheartedly. As I am sure you remember, during the Read years The Griz would play host to DII programs but would compliment that with a Wa. State, Oregon St., etc. IMO last years schedule backfired on UM by leaving them untested going into the playoffs (to the exclusion of EWU). In '04 the Griz lost to SHSU in September but roared back to punish them in the semi's because they understood what it would take to win.

I would think a marquee home game against a FCS powerhouse would generate interest like we haven't seen since Boise St. in '95.
I would pay and additional $25 in my season ticket price to see such a game without blinking an eye. On the other hand $25.00 for another Fort Lewis would only make me more interested in jumping ship from the BSC and FCS.

elkmcc wrote:

Grizbacker1 wrote:

elkmcc wrote:

Grizbacker1 wrote:

elkmcc wrote:

AtHomeInTheDahlbergDen wrote:Here's the end result of an article I described in an earlier thread.

http://www.grizzoulian.com/2008/05/arti ... o-the-fbs/

Nice work Colin. I can't help but feel that this administration at UM have their respective heads in the sand on this issue. Some of O'days comments are really head scratchers. Personally I am tired of the No. Colorado's and Sac State's but O'day gives me the impression that DII programs like Fort Lewis are the future of OOC games at WGS. If that is the case I seriously doubt that I will be a part of it.

Elk,

I would hate to see you stop going, but there is a waiting list for tickets, so it doesn't appear you are going to make any statement if that is your motive. On the other hand, say the Griz do move up, have the inevitable losing seasons, there will be tickets aplenty so you can return. I will be rooting for the Griz either way, just as I did in Dornblaser when the team and facilities were sub standard. Once a Griz, Always a Griz.

I think you misunderstood me GB1. I think you know it would be a stretch for me to miss the Griz/Cat game or even EWU, NAU, WSU and PSU (I'm not giving up my tickets yet) but the noncompetitive games are more like watching YMCA soccer than DI football. I haven't missed a game in WGS in over 16 years but I could see where a September day flyfishing on the Bitterroot or elk hunting in the Pintlars might sound more appealing than a game against Fort Lewis.

IMO Montana should be scheduling home and home games with the GSU's YSU's and ASU's instead of the DII teams we have been seeing in WGS. The Griz have the budget to allow it and should be making it a reality. IMO it is very myopic of O'day to fail to understand and address this issue.

Elk,

Thanks for clearing it up for me. I certainly did misunderstand you. I agree with the DII's for the most part, but also realize most of them were NOT scheduled by O' Day. I have posted multiple times that in years the Griz play a DII that they also play an FBS school, otherwise nothing but FCS schools. I think that O' Day should send a simple postcard to each season ticket holder and ask them if they would pay a premium ticket price so that UM could begin scheduling the APP States, GA Southerns, McNeese, YSU's and really make it a day to rival cat/Griz. Your thoughts.

I agree wholeheartedly. As I am sure you remember, during the Read years The Griz would play host to DII programs but would compliment that with a Wa. State, Oregon St., etc. IMO last years schedule backfired on UM by leaving them untested going into the playoffs (to the exclusion of EWU). In '04 the Griz lost to SHSU in September but roared back to punish them in the semi's because they understood what it would take to win.

I would think a marquee home game against a FCS powerhouse would generate interest like we haven't seen since Boise St. in '95.
I would pay and additional $25 in my season ticket price to see such a game without blinking an eye. On the other hand $25.00 for another Fort Lewis would only make me more interested in jumping ship from the BSC and FCS.

Read was a big proponent of playing DII teams to get his younger players playing time. He also HATED playing up and didn't pass on the opportunity to say so. He only played them because he wasn't given a choice by his AD.

Pretty Good article. It did kind of seem like the author had his mind up from the beginning that the Griz should not move.

I would have liked him to ask questions from some schools that have struggled in the FBS division (Idaho, USU, NMSU for example) why they thought it was so important for them to remain in FBS. And contrast that to the reasons given why UM should remain where they are.

Again, good article.

That's the funny thing to me regarding this subject. Idaho fans ran a Poll on thier message board a couple years ago. The poll asked "Should Idaho consider moving back to the Big Sky?" It ended up 95% to 5% against. In the thread a quote from the Idaho President was posted from an article. He stated that Idaho couldn't entertain a move back to I-AA because they couldn't afford the loss in revenue.

It's damn funny that NO ONE wants to come back no matter how many losses they sustain. San Jose State said a few years back they would drop football rather than suffer the embarrassment of playing in I-AA football. That's what UOP did.

ronbo wrote:That's the funny thing to me regarding this subject. Idaho fans ran a Poll on thier message board a couple years ago. The poll asked "Should Idaho consider moving back to the Big Sky?" It ended up 95% to 5% against. In the thread a quote from the Idaho President was posted from an article. He stated that Idaho couldn't entertain a move back to I-AA because they couldn't afford the loss in revenue.

It's damn funny that NO ONE wants to come back no matter how many losses they sustain. San Jose State said a few years back they would drop football rather than suffer the embarrassment of playing in I-AA football.

Loss of what revenue? Idaho isn't exactly packing the stadium. Yet as pitiful as Idaho is, the NC caliber Griz could barely beat last place Idaho teams, yet some think the Griz are going to be contenders in the WAC. That is some interesting logic.

2006-2007 from Equity in Athletics

Idaho Revenue

Football $4,885,021

Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport) $12,730,220

Idaho State Revenue

Football $2,090,742

Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport) $9,245,361

Schools are approximately the same size enrollment.

A couple years ago, Spears, the Idaho AD, was quoted as saying Idaho would lose $600,000 (I think) of revenue if it moved down to I-AA. I posted the quote then, and commented how it was an astoundingly low number.

When USU was in its 2 years of Independence a few years ago I took part in the debate of wether we should look at going I-AA and seeking to join the Big Sky Conference, or dropping football altogether if we did not get in a conference.

I voted for I-AA and the Big Sky, the vast majority said they would rather see football dropped totally. I think that is a common sentiment at most FBS schools no matter how unseccessful they have been in the recent past.

NavyBlue wrote:When USU was in its 2 years of Independence a few years ago I took part in the debate of wether we should look at going I-AA and seeking to join the Big Sky Conference, or dropping football altogether if we did not get in a conference.

I voted for I-AA and the Big Sky, the vast majority said they would rather see football dropped totally. I think that is a common sentiment at most FBS schools no matter how unseccessful they have been in the recent past.

Some of them probably should drop FB.

PlayerRep wrote:A couple years ago, Spears, the Idaho AD, was quoted as saying Idaho would lose $600,000 (I think) of revenue if it moved down to I-AA. I posted the quote then, and commented how it was an astoundingly low number.

Is that revenue coming from being part of the WAC and their TV contracts? Is it from charging higher ticket prices because of the competition they play? They did play at USC and got a nice paycheck and just being FBS means they get a higher payout than a FCS team would.

I wonder if Montana will get on the UCLA schedule in the next couple of years? I am sure Neuheisel would pay the Griz a nice check to come down.

Bozgriz wrote:There's no fear. I think many Griz fans are looking for that excitement that comes with being the underdog again. We have beaten up on the Big Sky Conference for many, many years. The best thing about the "Streak" ending was that it renewed the excitement of the Cat/Griz game. It meant something again because we knew that it wasn't just going to be another ass-kicking every single year. We haven't seen the true jubilation of victory at a Griz game in quite some time. If you attended the early season games last year, the crowd wasn't fired up. It was just a different feel. It takes something away from the season when you have to wait until November for excitement...

Exactly. Griz fans now expect to win and win by a relatively comfortable margin during the regular season and then get excited for the playoffs because it is a chance to compete on a national level against better competition. The Griz need to challenge themselves in OOC because going for revenue games comes back to haunt you in the end.

I find it amusing that when I-AA schools move up they are called want-a-bes, told how they will be abused in FBS, and how they will be the next Idaho.

But then a few years later when some FCS school gets them on the schedule it's a big deal and everyone gets real excited.

Marshall
Nevada
Troy
FAU
Boise State
UConn
WKU

All those schools have had success. Nevada is a WAC basketball power and not bad in football too. Marshall has had a couple lean years but still has a great program with excellent support. FAU was 8-5 in 2007 and has plans for a big stadium. Their attendance went from about 7000 in FCS to 16,000 a game in FBS. Troy has had success and is up in attendance too at 21,000 a game. WKU went from 7000 to 16,500 in their first year in FBS.

I'm still waiting for the next Idaho.

Let me see if I’ve got this straight. If we all collectively moan about our desolate situation, it will magically change. Okay.

Yep, see Texas State. Pressure from the student body, alums, and donors got their move up started.

NavyBlue wrote:Pretty Good article. It did kind of seem like the author had his mind up from the beginning that the Griz should not move.

I would have liked him to ask questions from some schools that have struggled in the FBS division (Idaho, USU, NMSU for example) why they thought it was so important for them to remain in FBS. And contrast that to the reasons given why UM should remain where they are.

Again, good article.

Nope. for a move.

AppState88 wrote:Very well written and researched article.

At this point App has the best of both worlds. We don't have to compete with the local FBS schools for talent, but still have the opportunity to measure ourselves against at least one upper division school a season.

We play the big boys because Coach insists on it. Usually don't win, (Michigan was the first FBS team we beat that wasn't named Wake Forest!) but it's more for the team and the fans than for the "W".

It just plain generates excitement. I remember how psyched everyone was before the Michigan game. NO ONE thought we would win, but knew it would be fun.

I understand Montana is in a different situation than we are (travel expenses, etc) , but it seems to me that scheduling at least one FBS game a year (even if the school doesn't make as much money as a home game) would help stop some of the "Why don't we move up" griping. That way you get your BSC Championship, high playoff seed AND the excitement of playing the big boys.

The thing that stuck with me most after the Cobb interview is that coach Moore is challenging Cobb to schedule these games. He WANTS the challenge. Is that the case with Hauck at all? And if it was, would we even schedule them?

Read was smart to play divII teams. he inherited a crappy larry donovan program and needed to generate a winning attitude. thus the passing game and divII schools. as he built his program he was able to take more chances with divI teams. The griz of the 80's desperately needed to play a light schedule. the griz of today don't need that. it only hurts the product on the field not the bottom line.

hokeyfine wrote:Read was smart to play divII teams. he inherited a crappy larry donovan program and needed to generate a winning attitude. thus the passing game and divII schools. as he built his program he was able to take more chances with divI teams. The griz of the 80's desperately needed to play a light schedule. the griz of today don't need that. it only hurts the product on the field not the bottom line.

Talk to Read if you get a chance. He will tell you if he was the Griz Coach today he would still want to schedule DII teams and not play FBS teams for the exact same reasons he gave when he was the Griz Coach. Anyone willing to wager some substantial cash on that PM me.

Grizbacker1 wrote:

hokeyfine wrote:Read was smart to play divII teams. he inherited a crappy larry donovan program and needed to generate a winning attitude. thus the passing game and divII schools. as he built his program he was able to take more chances with divI teams. The griz of the 80's desperately needed to play a light schedule. the griz of today don't need that. it only hurts the product on the field not the bottom line.

Talk to Read if you get a chance. He will tell you if he was the Griz Coach today he would still want to schedule DII teams and not play FBS teams for the exact same reasons he gave when he was the Griz Coach. Anyone willing to wager some substantial cash on that PM me.

Read had teams that played at Oregon and at Oregon State. Those are two games I remember off of the top of my head

NorthwestFresh wrote:

Grizbacker1 wrote:

hokeyfine wrote:Read was smart to play divII teams. he inherited a crappy larry donovan program and needed to generate a winning attitude. thus the passing game and divII schools. as he built his program he was able to take more chances with divI teams. The griz of the 80's desperately needed to play a light schedule. the griz of today don't need that. it only hurts the product on the field not the bottom line.

Talk to Read if you get a chance. He will tell you if he was the Griz Coach today he would still want to schedule DII teams and not play FBS teams for the exact same reasons he gave when he was the Griz Coach. Anyone willing to wager some substantial cash on that PM me.

Read had teams that played at Oregon and at Oregon State. Those are two games I remember off of the top of my head

I never said he didn't play the games. Read also took the Griz to play Kansas State. My point was he didn't like playing up and didn't hide that sentiment from anyone. He felt there was nothing to gain, and a LOT to lose. He did what his AD told him was necessary just like a lot of other HC's do.

lackey -

define "substantial".

also, does the type of currency count?