The most highly-decorated American soldier (and Democrat-labeled Swift Boat Liar) since Gen. George McArthur reminisces about his experience in a Vietnamese torture camp with Sen. McCain.
bud day is certainly a war hero and has the credentials to critique former military people who've turned into politicians, but since he's aligned himself to one party his commentary loses its zing.
if he'd just take a middle of the road stance his opinions would be a lot more valuable. he thinks mccain should hype his war hero status to get votes, but i think that'd backfire. everyone already knows all about mccain's service and the media will take care of that for him, so he doesn't need to pipe up about it himself.
day's association with the swift boat crew doesn't help his credibility either. had he stayed neutral and just critiqued kerry, then also critiqued bush's military stint, he probably could've re-made a name for himself. this stuff he's doing now just makes it look like he wants to be in the limelight.
his letter to joe scarborough during the '04 election was pretty weak. calling people commies and hippies (60s lingo) isn't going to score a lot of points. he just comes off as an old crotchity man and it really takes away from his war hero status, which is too bad.
bud day is certainly a war hero and has the credentials to critique former military people who've turned into politicians, but since he's aligned himself to one party his commentary loses its zing.
if he'd just take a middle of the road stance his opinions would be a lot more valuable. he thinks mccain should hype his war hero status to get votes, but i think that'd backfire. everyone already knows all about mccain's service and the media will take care of that for him, so he doesn't need to pipe up about it himself.
day's association with the swift boat crew doesn't help his credibility either. had he stayed neutral and just critiqued kerry, then also critiqued bush's military stint, he probably could've re-made a name for himself. this stuff he's doing now just makes it look like he wants to be in the limelight.
his letter to joe scarborough during the '04 election was pretty weak. calling people commies and hippies (60s lingo) isn't going to score a lot of points. he just comes off as an old crotchity man and it really takes away from his war hero status, which is too bad.
if he slandered day, he slandered himself, because kerry included himself as one who committed war atrocites....if that's what you're talking about.
No he didn't. He inferred that all Vietnam vets were war criminals except himself. Then he had the audacity to ask them for his support. Thank goodness Col. Day still had the guts to show him what a real medal looks like....even if it goes over the fence.
if he slandered day, he slandered himself, because kerry included himself as one who committed war atrocites....if that's what you're talking about.
No he didn't. He inferred that all Vietnam vets were war criminals except himself. Then he had the audacity to ask them for his support. Thank goodness Col. Day still had the guts to show him what a real medal looks like....even if it goes over the fence.
No, you inferred Kerry was saying that all Vietnam vets were war criminals except himself.
There's a world of difference.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Orwell
"There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."
then there are things like the my lai massacre and the vietnam war crimes working group files put out by the pentagon that substantiates 320 incidents of atrocities.
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Orwell
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
I just don't see the history the same as yourself, however that questionable war that that your describe, I have family and friends that adored a black marble wall, that were there, well he was spewing his hate America diatribe, that he was using his military heroism for political advancement and expediency, and continues to try to use it unsuccessfully.
In my opinion he is a traitor, and you are entitled to see him as a war hero, your choice.
And also explain to me, why one of Kerry's 527's didn't refute the accusation made by the Swiftboat 527, and also till this day Kerry still refuses to release all of his military records.
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
I just don't see the history the same as yourself, however that questionable war that that your describe, I have family and friends that adored a black marble wall, that were there, well he was spewing his hate America diatribe, that he was using his military heroism for political advancement and expediency, and continues to try to use it unsuccessfully.
In my opinion he is a traitor, and you are entitled to see him as a war hero, your choice.
And also explain to me, why one of Kerry's 527's didn't refute the accusation made by the Swiftboat 527, and also till this day Kerry still refuses to release all of his military records.
Real hero's have nothing to hide.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own historical facts.
Your family and friends visiting the wall has nothing to do with how questionable the Viet Nam war was. If you're implying that questioning its legitimacy now or then is somehow unpatriotic, you need to turn in your citizenship card immediately.
As for the SBVT, how many members served along side Kerry? Zero.
How many soldiers who actually did serve alongside Kerry actually joined or corroborated SBVT's claims? Zero
What was the name of the anti-war organization that Kerry joined after coming home? Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. How many members did they have? 20,000.
How many other veterans were at the protest with Kerry where they threw their medals over the fence? 800.
What did John McCain think about SBVT?:
A major part of the SBVT controversy centered on the group's testimony. Among the first to question the first ad was Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, Vietnam veteran, and former POW. He said, "I condemn the [SBVT] ad. It is dishonest and dishonorable. I think it is very, very wrong". (wikipedia)
If all you're going to do is regurgitate SWBT propaganda than there's no point in continuing this discussion.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Orwell
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
I just don't see the history the same as yourself, however that questionable war that that your describe, I have family and friends that adored a black marble wall, that were there, well he was spewing his hate America diatribe, that he was using his military heroism for political advancement and expediency, and continues to try to use it unsuccessfully.
In my opinion he is a traitor, and you are entitled to see him as a war hero, your choice.
And also explain to me, why one of Kerry's 527's didn't refute the accusation made by the Swiftboat 527, and also till this day Kerry still refuses to release all of his military records.
Real hero's have nothing to hide.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own historical facts.
Your family and friends visiting the wall has nothing to do with how questionable the Viet Nam war was. If you're implying that questioning its legitimacy now or then is somehow unpatriotic, you need to turn in your citizenship card immediately.
As for the SBVT, how many members served along side Kerry? Zero.
How many soldiers who actually did serve alongside Kerry actually joined or corroborated SBVT's claims? Zero
What was the name of the anti-war organization that Kerry joined after coming home? Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. How many members did they have? 20,000.
How many other veterans were at the protest with Kerry where they threw their medals over the fence? 800.
What did John McCain think about SBVT?:
A major part of the SBVT controversy centered on the group's testimony. Among the first to question the first ad was Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, Vietnam veteran, and former POW. He said, "I condemn the [SBVT] ad. It is dishonest and dishonorable. I think it is very, very wrong". (wikipedia)
If all you're going to do is regurgitate SWBT propaganda than there's no point in continuing this discussion.
Or you could carry on your argument, this time with McCain.
Give Sen.Kerry a break, after all he is a war hero, with medals to prove it, and those SwiftBoaters should have minded their own business.
With that said, Sen. Kerry reminds me of another great American war hero, Benedict Arnold.
Really? How so?
Both traitors, Arnold left the country, Kerry went to the US Senate.
Arnold committed treason. Kerry came home from a clearly questionable war disgusted and spoke out about it, also claiming culpability for his own actions. You can question Kerry's judgement and ethics but calling him a traitor is assinine.
Creating a dishonest smear campaign and distorting history for the sake of winning an election is as unpatriotic as anything Kerry did.
I just don't see the history the same as yourself, however that questionable war that that your describe, I have family and friends that adored a black marble wall, that were there, well he was spewing his hate America diatribe, that he was using his military heroism for political advancement and expediency, and continues to try to use it unsuccessfully.
In my opinion he is a traitor, and you are entitled to see him as a war hero, your choice.
And also explain to me, why one of Kerry's 527's didn't refute the accusation made by the Swiftboat 527, and also till this day Kerry still refuses to release all of his military records.
Real hero's have nothing to hide.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own historical facts.
Your family and friends visiting the wall has nothing to do with how questionable the Viet Nam war was. If you're implying that questioning its legitimacy now or then is somehow unpatriotic, you need to turn in your citizenship card immediately.
As for the SBVT, how many members served along side Kerry? Zero.
How many soldiers who actually did serve alongside Kerry actually joined or corroborated SBVT's claims? Zero
What was the name of the anti-war organization that Kerry joined after coming home? Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. How many members did they have? 20,000.
How many other veterans were at the protest with Kerry where they threw their medals over the fence? 800.
What did John McCain think about SBVT?:
A major part of the SBVT controversy centered on the group's testimony. Among the first to question the first ad was Republican Senator John McCain, a Bush supporter, Vietnam veteran, and former POW. He said, "I condemn the [SBVT] ad. It is dishonest and dishonorable. I think it is very, very wrong". (wikipedia)
If all you're going to do is regurgitate SWBT propaganda than there's no point in continuing this discussion.
Questioning the legitimacy of the war was not the SBVT agenda, it was to expose Kerry for his unpatriotic slander of men of honor while still in harms way, which today have been exposed as lies that he portrayed US troops as despicable as Gehghis Khan.
And using his military heroism, which is in question in the minds of many whom served in the campaign, and seen Kerry's actions for what many seen as his agenda, to advance his political career.
And if you think that the SBVT was responsible for the results of the 2004 election, I think I would find fault with that logic also.
I think that the American people, still had the sense not to elect a socialist liberal, now there was no need at all to expose Kerry of that.
And as far as McCain, the left has already started their campaign against his military record, " Huffington Post " good source of the love of country found there, and before you go there with comment, the right also have there slime chambers also. " All is fare in love and politics.
If you think that the 2004 election was riddled with slime, get prepared, because the 2008 election will make Kerry record look stelar, compared to what is in store for Obama and McCain.
One thing for sure, I still think that the American people are still not ready for a socialist liberal, and both parties, in the event that there is not going to be a third party, will use Saul Alinsky's guidebook, but only the left will complain about it, for they think that the book is their sole procession.
Also, for sure, this election, liberals will win for sure, in a sense, Obama or Clinton will have to compete to outdo McCain to determine whom is the most liberal.
For myself, my only concern, for the next president, is the appointment of federal judges, the congress has been stalling very successfully there, and my fear is that either Obama or McCain, will be a disaster, after all the right has appointed more liberal judges than the left.
The rest of the concerns that the electorate hears from the candidates of are of no consequence, the elected president still needs to work with the congress and the judiciary to seek results.
What was the difference in the actions of John Kerry and Jane Fonda? Or will history show Jane Fonda as a hero also.?
you have to lie to commit slander. had the swift boat people been correct about kerry, bush would've won by the biggest landslide in history. it pretty much killed their cause when none of the people that actually served with kerry agreed with them. had they been correct the republican party would've jumped on board with them instead of denouncing them.
you have to lie to commit slander. had the swift boat people been correct about kerry, bush would've won by the biggest landslide in history. it pretty much killed their cause when none of the people that actually served with kerry agreed with them. had they been correct the republican party would've jumped on board with them instead of denouncing them.
Doesn't slander constitute "lawsuit", direct me to information where this is happing to the Swift Boaters.
Questioning the legitimacy of the war was not the SBVT agenda, it was to expose Kerry for his unpatriotic slander of men of honor while still in harms way, which today have been exposed as lies that he portrayed US troops as despicable as Gehghis Khan.
And using his military heroism, which is in question in the minds of many whom served in the campaign, and seen Kerry's actions for what many seen as his agenda, to advance his political career.
And if you think that the SBVT was responsible for the results of the 2004 election, I think I would find fault with that logic also.
I think that the American people, still had the sense not to elect a socialist liberal, now there was no need at all to expose Kerry of that.
And as far as McCain, the left has already started their campaign against his military record, " Huffington Post " good source of the love of country found there, and before you go there with comment, the right also have there slime chambers also. " All is fare in love and politics.
If you think that the 2004 election was riddled with slime, get prepared, because the 2008 election will make Kerry record look stelar, compared to what is in store for Obama and McCain.
One thing for sure, I still think that the American people are still not ready for a socialist liberal, and both parties, in the event that there is not going to be a third party, will use Saul Alinsky's guidebook, but only the left will complain about it, for they think that the book is their sole procession.
Also, for sure, this election, liberals will win for sure, in a sense, Obama or Clinton will have to compete to outdo McCain to determine whom is the most liberal.
For myself, my only concern, for the next president, is the appointment of federal judges, the congress has been stalling very successfully there, and my fear is that either Obama or McCain, will be a disaster, after all the right has appointed more liberal judges than the left.
The rest of the concerns that the electorate hears from the candidates of are of no consequence, the elected president still needs to work with the congress and the judiciary to seek results.
What was the difference in the actions of John Kerry and Jane Fonda? Or will history show Jane Fonda as a hero also.?
Speaking for myself, I will not.
[/quote]
I guess one big difference might be that Kerry actually served in the military and was involved in combat - on the good side.
Again, I can understand taking issue with Kerry's testimony but saying it amounts to treason is ridiculous. In case you didn't notice, some really bad things happen in war-time, and unfortunately some of those things are perpetrated by troops who are supposed to be on the good side.
Or do you believe that everyone who denounced Abu Ghraib and other incidents of atrocities in Iraq are traitors as well?
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Orwell
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