eGriz
eGriz.com RULER!
Joined: 27 Mar 2002
Posts: 3585
Location: Missoula, Montana
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The stories are in order as they appear in this content area:
Former Griz Dickenson has more knee surgery (Missoulian).
Ambushed in Indy: Subjugation without representation (Otto Fad, CFAA/I-AA.com).
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Krysko has Monty in his corner (Missoulian).
Men's magazine ranks Missoula No. 1 (Missoulian).
***
2004 National I-AA TV Game of the Week, Vote Now!
http://www.i-aa.org/survey.asp
***
Former Griz Dickenson has more knee surgery
By the Missoulian
British Columbia Lions quarterback Dave Dickenson had minor arthroscopic surgery on his left knee last Friday, and is expected to be ready for training camp. The Canadian Football League team opens camp Sunday at Kamloops, B.C.
"Dave had surgery to re-trim some cartilage from his original tear," Lions coach and general manager Wally Buono said in a release. "We expect to see Dave at training camp and participating in our two-a-days."
The Lions play exhibition games June 5 and June 10, then open the regular season at home against Hamilton on June 18.
The Lions signed former Hofstra quarterback Giovanni Carmazzi on Monday.
Carmazzi was drafted in the third round by the San Francisco 49ers in 2000 and has also played in NFL Europe.
Dickenson, the former Montana Grizzly star, underwent surgery on the same knee in early December to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament, suffered during practice in preparation for the CFL playoff semifinals. Dickenson, 31, rejoined the CFL last season after two years as an NFL backup, signing a four-year deal with the Lions reportedly worth $375,000 annually. After shaking off a slow start, he was a finalist for the CFL's outstanding player award, leading the league with a 112.7 pass efficiency rating. He passed for
5,496 yards and 36 touchdowns against just 12 interceptions.
Dickenson was the CFL's MVP in 2000, leading the Calgary Stampeders to the Grey Cup title game.
***
Ambushed in Indy: Subjugation without representation
Otto Fad, CFAA/I-AA.com, May 17, 2004
The apparently increasing likelihood that recent gains will be wiped-out by the Division I Board of Directors begs the question, “How can I-AA Football be victimized by the membership organization to which it belongs?”
I-AA progress in national TV coverage, on-field competitiveness, and membership stability are all likely casualties if Division I’s top rulemaking authority stays its current course and continues to eviscerate stronger I-A standards produced in a comprehensive analysis undertaken by the Division I membership in its two-year NCAA Football Study.
Those standards were designed in large part to stabilize I-AA membership, and their dilution or elimination is likely to spur unprecedented numbers of I-AA programs to consider reclassification to I-A.
LACK OF NCAA SUPPORT
Perhaps the most disturbing disincentive for remaining in I-AA is the recent behavior of NCAA leadership with regard to the association’s premiere football championship classification.
I-AA leaders have fought for years for strong and enforceable I-A standards.
The two-plus year Football Study developed a series of simple criteria and won passage, through all the requisite committees, subcommittees, and boards, including the Division I Management Council and the Division I Board of Directors.
Publicly, non-BCS I-A administrators including commissioners Wright Waters of the Sun Belt Conference and Rick Chryst of the Mid-American Conference have stated they would meet whatever I-A criteria the membership developed.
Privately, have worked furiously to undo the new standards.
Already, using a dubious argument they have won a two-year flier on upgraded I-A scheduling standards. Instead of five I-A home games, they only need to play four over the next two seasons. By then, the adjustment could be made permanent or weakened, if the NCAA approves twelve-game regular seasons, as many expect.
Most recently, the Board referred the home football game attendance component of the standards to the I-A membership subcommittee. The old standard was 17,000-paid average attendance. The Football Study made the new standard 15,000-actual attendance.
The Division I Board of Directors includes the CEO’s of four schools that would be vulnerable to reclassification, were the standards to be enacted as originally passed:
- Carol A. Cartwright, president of Kent State University
- Phillip Dubois, president of University of Wyoming
- Sydney McPhee, president of Middle Tennessee State University
- Scott Cowen, president of Tulane University
Kent State and MTSU finished second-to-last, and third-to-last, respectively in I-A home attendance last year. Wyoming’s announced figures were good for a fourteenth-to-last finish in I-A, but slightly above the 15,000-cut mark.
However, all three should move up slightly this year as the Sun Belt Conference adds Florida Atlantic and Florida International -- two more schools that cannot pass marketing muster as measured by campus and community interest.
The USA Today recently reported that both Cartwright and Dubois spoke out against the attendance standard in the April meeting of the Division I Board of Directors.
STACKED DECK
The Board is Division I’s top policy-making body, but it is undeniably stacked against I-AA.
Although I-AA is the largest subclassification within Division I, it has the fewest representatives on the Board of Directors, with three. Of those three, only one – Dr. Randall Webb of Northwestern (Louisiana) State University -- represents a I-AA playoff league.
All 11 I-A conferences have permanent representation on the Board, and even I-AAA – which is roughly half the size of I-A and I-AA – currently has four members.
David Berst, the NCAA’s Division I Chief of Staff, believes that the Board understands the plight of I-AA institutions and why I-A standards are a concern of I-AA interests.
“[Board members] are aware that this is a I-AA and I-A issue,” said Berst.
“The scheduling requirement was altered because the math didn’t work.”
The math part is debatable. It’s an approach utilized by the non-BCS’ers that was shot-down in the Football Issues Committee during the Football Study. But in the Board, the old argument found new ears.
Irrefutably, even in an eleven-game season, every I-A program can play at least five I-A home games. Some elect to schedule six or seven, just as cash-starved programs may elect to play extra road games. But those are market-driven or institutional decisions on both sides. Nobody is forcing non-BCS’ers to schedule lucrative road games in lieu of building support at home.
Also finding a new audience with the Board was the question of attendance standards, period.
“Not the Board,” said Berst, “but some of the individual members of the Board have concerns about the requirement, about trying to understand where these elements came from.”
Were they unaware that the unprecedented, inclusive NCAA Football Study developed the standards through painstaking analyses and careful deliberation?
“Yes,” said Berst. “But I don’t think any legislation is sacred, or immune to re-examination.”
Does that mean that every time the composition of the Board changes that every rule, regulation, and policy could or should be re-evaluated?
Georgia Southern University athletics director Sam Baker finds the re-evaluation of carefully evaluated standards frustrating.
“Attendance has always been part of the criteria… forever,” he said. “But it was one of those rules that everyone just winked about.”
“It was 17,000, but that was paid-attendance, so now it becomes 15,000 actual attendees."”
Greg Sankey, former Southland commissioner and now associate commissioner of the SEC, appeared before the Board to explain the origins of the now-endangered criteria, and why they were developed to benefit both I-A and I-AA. However, his insight may have been fallen on deaf ears.
HOOSIER LEADER?
Based on his public comments, NCAA President Myles Brand is apparently lending a sympathetic ear to the non-BCS Board members. The New Orleans Times-Picayune quoted Brand on the re-evaluation of the attendance standard.
"There is some discomfort with the rule, and it's legitimate," Brand said.
"We want to make sure the people in I-A really belong there, but the best way to do that may be in terms of scholarships."
Implicit in the positions of the Board and Dr. Brand is that strong standards must be painless. In other words, strong standards are fine, but only if they are also ineffectual.
Part of the NCAA leadership’s lack of concern for I-AA Football may be attributable to the “bigger fish to fry” mentality associated with a plethora of Division I scandals and a reform agenda championed by Brand, all of which return more press attention than dealing with I-AA Football.
That’s understandable, except perhaps, to the self-restrained and responsible members of Division I’s largest subclassification.
Also, the Brand regime has coincided with and reinforced a rejuvenation of presidential authority as CEO’s attempt to wrest control of intercollegiate athletics from their athletics directors and conference commissioners.
That’s relatively easily accomplished everywhere except in I-A football, the only intercollegiate sport not controlled by the NCAA.
Any I-A football agenda must include work not only on the Board of Directors, but also within the BCS.
A leading expert on the politics of intercollegiate athletics is Welch Suggs, the Athletics Editor of The Chronicle of Higher Education. Suggs is a former college student-athlete and mainstream sportswriter. Asked about the impact of the Presidential Coalition for Athletics Reform (PCAR) on the Division I Board of Directors and the BCS, Suggs commented on a simple commonality in this complex game of political football.
“With regard to the PCAR,” said Suggs, “I think you have to give a lot of credit to Scott Cowen (president of Tulane, who also ran the PCAR, and currently serves on the Division I Board of Directors) et al. for being willing to engage the BCS structure and set the agenda.”
“But a couple of people close to the situation have said that for the most part, college presidents don't like to say 'no' to each other.”
“Unlike the conference commissioners and others, they do not see themselves in direct competition with one another, so they're more likely to look for win-win situations and consensus objectives.”
Because NCAA governance subjugates Division I’s largest subclassification to a point bordering on utter irrelevance, win-win need not include concerns of I-AA Football.
Combined with a lack of representation in the BCS, this frees high-minded reformists to ignore the 120-plus schools burdened with the “I-AA” label.
Suggs also offered some contemporary context that does not bode well for I-AA’s chances.
“…Everybody … agreed that college sports has taken such a bruising over the past year, particularly with the nastiness over the ACC-Big East situation and then the Colorado recruiting scandal, that a kind of moral exhaustion that's crept into presidential conversations about sports.”
Translation: don’t expect the presidents of Penn State or Nebraska to stand up for I-AA if it means additional challenges for the mighty Golden Flashes of Kent State.
This explains how new I-A standards -- an issue that clearly affects all Division I football and that was originally adjudicated by the Division I membership -- have now been referred to a I-A subcommittee for re-evaluation and a recommendation.
The Board will again consider the issue in August. Anybody care to go out a limb and guess how that one will go?
…DON’T NEED NO STINKIN’ STANDARDS
"We believed that the Football Study and resulting legislation was going to
help," said GSU’s Baker. “All of a sudden, it’s setting alarms off when
rules that were passed are being reconsidered and voted-on again.”
“As a group we need to take the issue [of I-A standards] seriously.”
Tony Moss, Director of I-AA Football for The Sports Network, agreed and
elaborated.
“The apparent relaxation of what were supposed to be the new NCAA guidelines
for I-A is going to have disastrous effects for I-AA. Without any deterrents
in place, most notably the 15,000 actual attendance requirement,
lower-echelon I-A leagues are free to continue recruiting members directly
from I-AA.”
“(Then) there's nothing to stop some misguided I-AA’s from taking the leap
in the hopes of becoming the next Marshall or USF,” said Moss.
“The Southland and OVC were crippled by the I-A migration in the 1990’s, and
the next wave looks like it could be right around the corner. If Western
Kentucky doesn't need a football fan base or a stadium to play in the Sun
Belt, then what's keeping them in I-AA or the Gateway?”
“(Then), what's to keep Youngstown State, which could support a I-A move,
from joining the MAC when it inevitably targets its next member?”
“Fast-forward to a time when a significant number of I-AA's core programs
have migrated to I-A because of the absence of any deterrent,” said Moss.
“Then, the schools that are attempting to reduce scholarships in I-AA are
going to have a louder voice.”
“With fewer scholarships, the gap widens between I-AA and I-A, and the
quality of play and appeal of I-AA go downhill quickly.”
NCAA: NON-BCS COALITION APPEASEMENT ASSOCIATION?
There is no reason to believe that I-AA will enjoy fairer representation
anytime soon in legislating its future. In fact, the trend may be moving in
the opposite direction.
The NCAA Executive Committee, made up of select members from each Division’s
Board of Directors, recently endeavored to create a new group, the Executive
Committee Administrative Subcommittee.
The EC minutes from April 2004 stated that the new subcommittee “will
address critical issues in the interim between meetings with the
understanding that all actions by the subcommittee would be ratified at the
next Executive Committee meeting.”
Originally, I-AA and I-AAA were to be left out, but following an advisory
report protest, it was agreed, “the subcommittee would be composed of the
Executive Committee chair, the chairs of the three division presidential
bodies and one Division I-AA or I-AAA member of the Executive Committee.”
LOOPHOLE BOWL
Louisiana-Monroe (nee Northeast Louisiana) recently tested the letter of
NCAA law, not to mention the bounds of common sense and self-respect, when
it announced a long-term contract with the University of Arkansas to play a
series of football games in Little Rock, beginning this fall. The kicker is
that the contests will count as home games for ULM, despite being played
out-of-state, in the traditional second home of Razorback football.
ULM took advantage of a loophole in NCAA bylaws permitting I-A programs to
count a “neutral site” game among its required complement of I-A “home
games.” Never mind that the “visiting” team in this series is handling game
management and ticket sales, or that the game is included in their season
ticket package.
ULM has never before been the home team at War Memorial Stadium, where UA
has been required by the state legislature to play a certain number of
contests annually. Otherwise, UA has been trying to eliminate their Little
Rock dates and play all their home games on campus in Fayetteville.
So the matchup that would save ULM’s I-A status will also help keep Arkansas
politicos off UA’s back, while further demonstrating that outside of I-AA
there is no sincere interest in strong I-A standards.
“THE KIDDIE TABLE”
Reading between the lines of another recent action by the Board reveals that
it is very likely that the Division I rulers have some awareness that I-AA
and I-AAA are not adequately represented in policy decisions.
Throwing a bone to I-AA interests, the I-A folks established the Division
I-AA/I-AAA Presidential Advisory Group.
The idea is that this non-voting group will discuss issues affecting the
non-I-A majority of Division I and, if it pleases the I-A policy makers, be
so bold as to possibly offer non-binding recommendations.
The absurdity was not lost on one I-AA/I-AAA PAG member who said that
serving on the group “is like sitting at the kiddie table.”
Rather than addressing the injustice of the current NCAA Division I
governance structure and its inherent, guaranteed anti-I-AA bias, the NCAA’s
apparent solution is to banish programs that annually devote as much as $3-4
million dollars to intercollegiate football off to the side to consort with
schools that use the old Division III model for football.
BCS ALLIES?
If you believe that the BCS leagues might find I-AA’s restrained,
responsible philosophy appealing and worthy of support, you wouldn’t be
alone. Southern Conference commissioner Danny Morrison finds some
consolation and reason for hope.
“I think there’s probably a better understanding among the BCS schools of
I-AA’s needs,” said Morrison. “What we continue to hear from athletic
directors and commissioners in the BCS is that they realize that healthy
football at all levels is important to the sport.”
As Morrison suggests, the AD’s and commissioners of the BCS have frequently
expressed their support for I-AA Football and for strong I-A standards.
However, much to the detriment of I-AA institutions, the presidents from the
BCS leagues have not acted in a manner consistent with the philosophies and
values expressed by their top athletics officials.
So, while the concept of I-AA Football may have support from many levels of
Division I, until Dr. Brand and the presidents from the six BCS leagues
decide to consider the big picture of the “game of college football” and the
interests of the entire membership of Division I, the programs in the NCAA’s
premiere football championship classification will suffer the consequences.
It won’t be easy to stand up to the browbeating, whining, legal and
legislative threats of non-BCS interests, but sincere reformists with
genuine integrity would be able to do so.
Otherwise, sans adequate I-AA representation in Division I governance, BCS
presidents will continue to enjoy the luxury of being able to ignore I-AA
Football while attending to Division I’s “squeaky wheel.”
[Part III to follow]
***
Krysko has Monty in his corner
By RIAL CUMMINGS of the Missoulian
The leading scorer and rebounder in Montana Grizzly basketball history sat
alone in the locker room.
He'd won gold medals as a starter for the U.S. junior national team, twice
earned Academic All-America honors, led the Grizzlies to four straight
20-win seasons and would soon be the only three-time MVP in the history of
the Big Sky Conference. The cheers of the fans were fresh in his ears; as
usual, he had been surrounded by postgame autograph seekers.
Larry Krystkowiak, shortly to be the 28th pick in the 1986 NBA draft, sat
that day, late in his senior season, buoyed by just about every validation a
young athlete could imagine. Every validation, except one.
"He was always pretty quiet, kind of analytical, and wasn't full of praise,"
Krystkowiak said, recalling his four years as a player for Coach Mike
Montgomery. "That day, it was a great thing for me. Mike came in, and it was
just the two of us. He sat down next to me and made a comment, like, 'You
turned out to be a pretty good player.'
"And I remember thinking, yeah, finally."
Will Krysko someday receive similar praise from Monty, coach to coach?
We'll see. But there's no doubt that Montgomery, who used UM as a
springboard to national prominence at Stanford, will be rooting for
Krystkowiak to succeed as the newest coach of the Grizzlies.
"I'm real pleased for Larry, and I'm pleased for Montana," Montgomery said
by phone on Friday, one day after Krystkowiak, 39, was officially introduced
as UM's 25th head coach. "I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as a
person. I know he'll work hard to get Griz basketball back where we'd like
it to be."
Krystkowiak, who spent last year coaching a minor-league team in Boise,
Idaho, wanted to call Montgomery after emerging, alongside current UM
assistant Wayne Tinkle, as the leading candidates to replace Pat Kennedy.
But Krysko hesitated, reluctant to bother Montgomery. So who called out of
the blue? Montgomery.
"I wanted to know what Larry was thinking," said Montgomery, who has
transformed Stanford from a Pac-10 bottom feeder into a perennial Top 25
team, taking the Cardinal to the 1998 Final Four. "He wanted to go for it,
but he was cautious, and rightly so. I said, 'I'm 100 percent for you, but
you've gotta be fired up for it.' I told him if you go in there and work
your butt off, there's no reason you can't succeed."
Krystkowiak said he appreciated Montgomery's advice.
"We talked about pluses and minuses, about family," Krystkowiak said. "What
are you looking for? Here are some concerns. It was a real straight
forward."
It's a tight fraternity, these former Griz basketball coaches. Make no
mistake - they take an almost paternal interest in the program they nurtured
for three decades. Jud Heathcote turned UM's fortunes around in the
mid-1970s, then passed the torch to his assistant, Jim Brandenburg.
Montgomery, who was Brandenburg's assistant, then became head coach, with
Stew Morrill, Blaine Taylor and Don Holst following in succession.
"We all try to get together at the Final Four every year, to sit around and
swap lies," Montgomery said with a laugh.
The pattern ended with the hiring of Kennedy, a former head coach at Florida
State and DePaul who went 23-35 in two seasons in Missoula before leaving
for Towson University.
"All of us were disappointed," Montgomery said. "Not that they hired Pat,
but there were some comments made at the time that didn't sit so well. To
think we had to break that (succession), it didn't make a lot of sense."
Montgomery said he was on the phone last week with his former assistants,
Morrill and Taylor, who took their spins at the Montana helm and have gone
on to to enjoy success at Utah State and Old Dominion, respectively.
"We all thought it was great that they were looking at Larry and Tinks
(Tinkle)," Montgomery said. "We didn't want to get in the middle of the
judgment there, but we liked the direction."
Krystkowiak didn't start thinking about becoming a coach until well into his
NBA career, and after completing his business degree in 1996, he still
wasn't certain. In the end, it was a siren song he couldn't resist.
"I really felt I could teach," Krystkowiak said. "It just kept speaking to
me, that I'd be doing myself a disservice to jump into something else that I
wasn't as passionate about."
Krystkowiak figures to mirror his mentor with carefully mapped practice
plans. He intends to be the listener that Montgomery is. He wants his teams,
like Montgomery's, to have a physical, inside presence. He's likely to be
just as intense and demanding as Montgomery, if perhaps more direct.
"I'm guessing he won't be real patient with knuckleheads," Montgomery said.
"He'll have things to learn, like we all did. As far as X's and O's go,
there's a learning curve. Mainly, he'll have to put a lot of time and energy
into recruiting, because that's the life blood of any college basketball
program."
Energy doesn't figure to be a problem. All Krysko has to do is tap into the
same ferocious competitiveness that carried him from a difficult, often
unhappy childhood in the Hi-Line town of Shelby all the way to the NBA.
The challenges, though, are many.
There are wounds to heal and trust to be re-established after the past two
seasons. Interim athletic director Marie Porter said Krystkowiak's
recruiting budget will remain intact, but nothing seems certain in the face
of the athletic department's $1 million deficit.
Asked about the budget this week, Krystkowiak said he had "no concerns."
We'll see if he feels the same way two years from now under a boss he has
yet to meet.
There's no doubt, however, that Krystkowiak's first steps were sure and
certain. Krysko persuaded Tinkle to stay on board, and to Wayne's credit, he
swallowed his disappointment and handled the situation with class. The
hiring of Brad Huse, a successful NAIA coach at Jamestown, N.D., should help
solidify the staff. Krystkowiak moved quickly to reassure the players, and
he also reached out to Lady Griz coach Robin Selvig, another wise move.
As the only Griz to have his uniform retired, Krystkowiak's presence alone
will spark renewed basketball interest. And as a hometown guy, he'll receive
the benefit of the doubt, at least for the first couple of years.
In the end, of course, Krysko will be judged on whether he can produce
championship teams - something Monty could never quite accomplish in the Big
Sky - with players who can balance basketball and the books. Montgomery
arguably does that better than any coach in the country.
"My goal is to try to do what Coach Montgomery did for me," Krystkowiak
said.
The press conference was over. The congratulatory handshakes were through.
The one-on-one interviews were done. But as Krystkowiak left the empty Sky
Club at the top of the Adams Center last Thursday afternoon, he took a look
back. And, being Larry Krystkowiak, he noted something.
"Did someone leave a jacket?" Krystkowiak asked.
Then, before anyone could answer, he strode to the far end of the room and
retrieved it for a sheepish sports writer.
Attention to detail alone won't win Big Sky championships. Simple courtesy
won't put fans back in the seats. But those qualities won't hurt as
Krystkowiak begins his mission to revive Grizzly basketball.
Mike Montgomery, his mentor, has two final pieces of advice.
"Go recruit baby, and find yourself a nugget from Shelby," Montgomery said.
"And remember, I'm here. If you want to, pick up the phone."
***
Men's magazine ranks Missoula No. 1
By ROB CHANEY of the Missoulian
An out-of-town visitor brought a double surprise wrapped in a copy of Men's
Journal magazine to Mayor Mike Kadas' office last week.
Inside was a story declaring Missoula as the No. 1 small town in the nation.
And the photo over the story was a view of the city with a paraglider flying
off Mount Jumbo - a paraglider with Kadas attached.
"They were doing a big meet here in '97 or '98, and they said they'd take me
for a ride," Kadas said of the tandem flight. "I'm too dumb to turn anything
like that down. I've got the same picture in my office."
Missoula led New Paltz, N.Y., Morgantown, W.Va., Apalachicola, Fla., and
Kerrville, Texas, as best small town under 100,000 people. The best big city
was San Diego, followed by Portland, Ore., Boston, Minneapolis-St. Paul and
Austin, Texas.
Men's Journal Senior Editor Tom Foster said this is the third year the
magazine has done the survey. It has changed its measuring system each year,
so there isn't much repetition from survey to survey. This time, it looked
at a number of health and recreation factors, including cancer and diabetes
rates, annual snowfall, days of sunshine, proximity to major sports teams or
events, and amount of undeveloped land nearby. Those combined with the more
common rankings of population, cost of living and house prices.
Foster said the survey also includes a few "wild cards," such as the number
of bars and bookstores, and the ratio of men to women in town and the
community's body-mass index.
"Missoula has a lot of land nearby where you can get out and have a good
time," Foster said. "And you can see there's a lot of college towns on the
list. With a college, you have the cultural benefits of a larger town than
it really is."
Missoula City-County Health Department Director Ellen Leahy said she was
pleased to see the health factors make a difference.
"I'm real proud of getting the environmental rating," Leahy said. "And I'm
not surprised we got a good rating on health areas. We tend to run a bit
better (than the national average) in areas related to activity, and related
areas like diabetes or obesity. Although our suicide rate for young men is
much higher than the national average here."
So is Missoula's tendency for getting ranked in national magazines, it would
seem. Just two months ago, Inc. Magazine declared Missoula the No. 2 small
place to do business in the country. Last year, Forbes magazine called the
Garden City its No. 11 small place for business and careers. An Internet
operation called ePodunk.com rated us as No. 15 for historic preservation
efforts in 2001, and Utne Reader had Missoula as its No. 11 best place in
1997.
"It continues to reinforce that we are nationally known and will continue to
be nationally advertised," Kadas said. "I think it's a real mix of factors.
There are natural amenities that bring a lot of value, and when you mix that
with the university, and a functional and dynamic downtown, a good K-12
education system and relatively low unemployment, that combination makes
things work."
Missoula Chamber of Commerce President Bob Tutskey agreed the city is a good match for Men's Journal.
"It fits well with the lifestyle of Men's Journal, which is an active,
healthy one," Tutskey said. "Missoula is a great town with an active
lifestyle. That makes us a great place from a business perspective. And
these rankings are not only good for attracting new business. They work
really well as tourism incentives. People see this is a nice place to swing
through this summer on the way to Glacier Park."
Source: Tom Griz Fan
May 18, 2004
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