We would not be talking

[Copper Griz]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

[maroonandsilver]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

+1

[HighLineGRIZ]

Absolutely right. Seems like there is a lot of blame being thrown around here. Not nearly enough in the direction of whose really responsible...

[Umista]

Proof? Again proof? Normally when following a smell you will locate the shit.

A whole lot of smell but I do not see the shit?

Bright smart and good people must feel free to enlighten me. Just a tiny bit of proof will work!

I want to join the band wagon and begin to hate those responsible! Thanks ahead of time.

[argh!]

i can show you the path to enlightenment, grasshopper, but it is up to you to take it.

[Skookum-Jim]

Proof? Again proof? Normally when following a smell you will locate the shit.

A whole lot of smell but I do not see the shit?

Bright smart and good people must feel free to enlighten me. Just a tiny bit of proof will work!

I want to join the band wagon and begin to hate those responsible! Thanks ahead of time.

It's not public information yet pilgrim. You can't possibly believe they just kicked him out for no reason do you?

[sdgriz_24]

Proof? Again proof? Normally when following a smell you will locate the shit.

A whole lot of smell but I do not see the shit?

Bright smart and good people must feel free to enlighten me. Just a tiny bit of proof will work!

I want to join the band wagon and begin to hate those responsible! Thanks ahead of time.

It's not public information yet pilgrim. You can't possibly believe they just kicked him out for no reason do you?

It sure seems like it...

[tnt]

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

[maroonandsilver]

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

Are you living under a rock? This whole mess is a LOT more than simply being drunk at the Forester's Ball.

[Tokyogriz]

Proof? Again proof? Normally when following a smell you will locate the shit.

A whole lot of smell but I do not see the shit?

Bright smart and good people must feel free to enlighten me. Just a tiny bit of proof will work!

I want to join the band wagon and begin to hate those responsible! Thanks ahead of time.

It's not public information yet pilgrim. You can't possibly believe they just kicked him out for no reason do you?

As of right now based on the University of Montanas actions in the previous month....

YES I do believe they expelled him based on one womans word against his.

To blindly believe they had used some damning factual evidence when you know of none and they have produced none is beyond idiotic. You really want to live in a society were no actual evidence other than an accusation is needed to destroy your life or your childrens lives?

I dont understand why some of you even want to live in America with that damn bill of rights that would hold you back from you dream world you so crave. The world were people get their lives destroyed at a whim or accusation however unfounded and the inquisition runs rampant.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

+1

This

[putter]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

Way too simplistic of a theory.

1) What IF JJ and this girl went back to her place and had consensual sex and he got up and left without saying goodbye.....and the girl wakes up ticked off that he left her? She then proceeds, after 2 weeks to make this claim....

2) Sexual assault is not an athlete thing and being under a microscope had nothing to do with it. The microscope is coming from the coach, AD and school doing nothing about multiple assaults on campus over time.

3) IF JJ did do it then he should be expelled, however, if point #1 happened than there should be consequences for the girl, Engstrom etc. for putting this kid through hell for doing something (sex) that happens every day on college campuses around the country.

[tnt]

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

Are you living under a rock? This whole mess is a LOT more than simply being drunk at the Forester's Ball.

Thats exactly right, but thats not the question I asked. It seems it has to be a lot more than that before the players are held accountable. But the latter is alot less likley if the lesser is the standard.

[Silvertip]

If wishes were horses beggars would ride...

[RABIDAWG]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

Way too simplistic of a theory.

1) What IF JJ and this girl went back to her place and had consensual sex and he got up and left without saying goodbye.....and the girl wakes up ticked off that he left her? She then proceeds, after 2 weeks to make this claim....

2) Sexual assault is not an athlete thing and being under a microscope had nothing to do with it. The microscope is coming from the coach, AD and school doing nothing about multiple assaults on campus over time.

3) IF JJ did do it then he should be expelled, however, if point #1 happened than there should be consequences for the girl, Engstrom etc. for putting this kid through hell for doing something (sex) that happens every day on college campuses around the country.

Ditto! A simple answer to a lot of BS.

[Grizzoola]

Here's a scenario: JJ dates a girl, and they get intimate, but short of having sex. The girl feels JJ does something she doesn't like, and doesn't want to see him again. But, JJ over the next few days or a week, continues to call her, come to her place, whatever, basically ignoring her request that he stay away from her. Not a few of us have been in the same situation & thought we could patch things up. It's all up to the girl to decide she's had enough and take some kind of legal action, especially an easy thing to do these days, as women are fed up with men who won't take no for an answer. It could be the girl felt a threat from JJ, whether or not justified.

So, she files the TRO. This scenario is based on there being a period of time between the date and the filing of the TRO. Player some time ago, apparently looked at the TRO, which is a public document, I believe, and said no specific offense was specified. I think Florio inflated the situation by using the word, "rape," in her headline and used that word in all subsequent stories. Either Player is wrong, or Florio should be fired for journalistic excess, because both read the TRO. This is my impression.

But, I'm not after Florio. Like many on this board, I'm still parsing out what exactly it was that brought about the TRO and not a charge of rape. The girl filed the TRO, in my estimation, simply to stop JJ from what she felt was harassment, stalking, or whatever. IF this is what happened, then the TRO was not filed just for a bad date experience for the girl, but JJ's pestering her in the time between the date and her filing of the TRO.

This is a scenario only. I have no evidence; I haven't seen the TRO. Maybe she filed the TRO the next day. All I'm trying to do here is present an alternative view of why JJ is at fault, but not to the extent of felony rape. Now, the issue of what UM wants to do about his conduct is up to UM. It's unfortunate that the girl filed a TRO, but perhaps she had good reason to, IF AND ONLY IF JJ's conduct after the date caused her to fear for her safety, justifiably or not.

[billings_poke]

Here's a scenario: JJ dates a girl, and they get intimate, but short of having sex. The girl feels JJ does something she doesn't like, and doesn't want to see him again. But, JJ over the next few days or a week, continues to call her, come to her place, whatever, basically ignoring her request that he stay away from her. Not a few of us have been in the same situation & thought we could patch things up. It's all up to the girl to decide she's had enough and take some kind of legal action, especially an easy thing to do these days, as women are fed up with men who won't take no for an answer. It could be the girl felt a threat from JJ, whether or not justified.

So, she files the TRO. This scenario is based on there being a period of time between the date and the filing of the TRO. Player some time ago, apparently looked at the TRO, which is a public document, I believe, and said no specific offense was specified. I think Florio inflated the situation by using the word, "rape," in her headline and used that word in all subsequent stories. Either Player is wrong, or Florio should be fired for journalistic excess, because both read the TRO. This is my impression.

But, I'm not after Florio. Like many on this board, I'm still parsing out what exactly it was that brought about the TRO and not a charge of rape. The girl filed the TRO, in my estimation, simply to stop JJ from what she felt was harassment, stalking, or whatever. IF this is what happened, then the TRO was not filed just for a bad date experience for the girl, but JJ's pestering her in the time between the date and her filing of the TRO.

This is a scenario only. I have no evidence; I haven't seen the TRO. Maybe she filed the TRO the next day. All I'm trying to do here is present an alternative view of why JJ is at fault, but not to the extent of felony rape. Now, the issue of what UM wants to do about his conduct is up to UM. It's unfortunate that the girl filed a TRO, but perhaps she had good reason to, IF AND ONLY IF JJ's conduct after the date caused her to fear for her safety, justifiably or not.

shhh don't go pointing out that there are a lot of possibilities here besides fake rape and a girl out to get the guy.

good god man

[EaglePtGriz]

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

[billings_poke]

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

you do know the police are still investigating and reviewing the evidence right?

Are we even sure the expulsion is about rape or is that just rumor?

way too many unanswered questions here to make the assumption that this is all because one girl said something with no evidence to back her up

[GrizLA]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

Good post...I like the idea of personal responsibility. It is part of the maturation process. I think, even though I think the current president is not up to the job, that UM is going to be even better in the future because of this. If there is one kid in Montana that has not gotten the message that UM will no longer tolerate behavior that we now see being discussed here and elsewhere, then perhaps they should go elsewhere. First and foremost, UM is a university with a football team that represents much of the state and alumni, spread around the world..not the other way around.

[Growler1]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

Good post...I like the idea of personal responsibility. It is part of the maturation process. I think, even though I think the current president is not up to the job, that UM is going to be even better in the future because of this. If there is one kid in Montana that has not gotten the message that UM will no longer tolerate behavior that we now see being discussed here and elsewhere, then perhaps they should go elsewhere. First and foremost, UM is a university with a football team that represents much of the state and alumni, spread around the world..not the other way around.

First good post you have made in months.

[Growler1]

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

+1

This

+1

['68griz]

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

+1. Basically what I posted previously.

[GRZFTBL]

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

I seen a WBB player smoking pot in front of Stocks, 5-6 yrs ago. Means nothing, just sayin'.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Innocent until proven guilty went out the window the last 8-10 years with the incredible crime spree that has taken place under ODay, Hauck and Pflus watch.

There is also a VAST FU*KING DIFFERENCE between the law and school rules but some people (Jokyo) cant seems to comprehend that.