Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Get the low down on Griz Football and the FCS
PlayerRep
Hall of Fame
Posts: 18075
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by PlayerRep » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Saw this link in another thread. Very interesting. Comes from the law office of the former long-time asst Missoula county prosecutor who oversaw criminal prosecutions. Kudos to Kirsten Pabst. Here are some quotes, and the link.

"Without getting into inappropriate detail, I assure you that the foundation for the string of ‘sexual scandal’ articles is not based in fact. The unfortunate reality is that the officials in charge of setting the record straight have their hands tied by the Montana Confidential Criminal Justice Information Act."

"So why can the Missoulian publish allegations labeling legally innocent people as ‘sexual offenders’ because a couple of disgruntled young adults, who get to remain anonymous, spin a good story to a reporter too lazy to check the facts? Why can a reporter combine sensational facts from different scenarios and weave them together into a fascinating tale of horror and shame? Why can one journalist invoke such fear in the minds of so many, with NOBODY, except an occasional blogger, calling foul? The answer is that reporters answer to no one, except their corporate owners who, by all accounts, need to sell many, many more papers than are currently filling the yellow boxes. Thankfully, most reporters are guided by their own sense of community obligation, truth and justice. But sadly, all of those reporters have moved on."

http://www.pabstlaw.net/Blog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SoCalGriz
3rd String
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:40 am
I am a fan of: Montana

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by SoCalGriz » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:43 pm

Excellent. My thoughts exactly.
I would rather be fat drunk and stupid then be a bobcat.

User avatar
wbtfg
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 5580
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:26 am
I am a fan of: Instigating

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by wbtfg » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:43 pm

I'll cut and paste my response from the other thread.
Reporters should be elected officials? While I understand what she's trying to do, is she really making a case that we need to hold elections for all media personnel? That's about the dumbest GD idea I've ever read. No offense.

Also for the conspiracy theorists out there, I clicked on the CV link and noticed that up until this March, Ms. Pabst was the Chief Deputy in the Missoula County Attorney Office - Criminal Division.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

User avatar
Grizpac
Walk On
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:02 pm
I am a fan of: Montana

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by Grizpac » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:54 pm

wbtfg wrote:I'll cut and paste my response from the other thread.
Reporters should be elected officials? While I understand what she's trying to do, is she really making a case that we need to hold elections for all media personnel? That's about the dumbest GD idea I've ever read. No offense.

Also for the conspiracy theorists out there, I clicked on the CV link and noticed that up until this March, Ms. Pabst was the Chief Deputy in the Missoula County Attorney Office - Criminal Division.
Wow...That's about the dumbest GD Cut and Paste I've ever read. No Offense, but did you really think that her intent was that we elect reporters? :roll:

User avatar
wbtfg
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 5580
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:26 am
I am a fan of: Instigating

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by wbtfg » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:02 pm

Grizpac wrote:
wbtfg wrote:I'll cut and paste my response from the other thread.
Reporters should be elected officials? While I understand what she's trying to do, is she really making a case that we need to hold elections for all media personnel? That's about the dumbest GD idea I've ever read. No offense.

Also for the conspiracy theorists out there, I clicked on the CV link and noticed that up until this March, Ms. Pabst was the Chief Deputy in the Missoula County Attorney Office - Criminal Division.
Wow...That's about the dumbest GD Cut and Paste I've ever read. No Offense, but did you really think that her intent was that we elect reporters? :roll:
I realize its a metaphor, but the metaphor makes no sense.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

User avatar
tampa_griz
Starter
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:15 pm
I am a fan of: Montana
Location: St. Petersburg, FL

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by tampa_griz » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:22 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Grizpac wrote:
wbtfg wrote:I'll cut and paste my response from the other thread.
Reporters should be elected officials? While I understand what she's trying to do, is she really making a case that we need to hold elections for all media personnel? That's about the dumbest GD idea I've ever read. No offense.

Also for the conspiracy theorists out there, I clicked on the CV link and noticed that up until this March, Ms. Pabst was the Chief Deputy in the Missoula County Attorney Office - Criminal Division.
Wow...That's about the dumbest GD Cut and Paste I've ever read. No Offense, but did you really think that her intent was that we elect reporters? :roll:
I realize its a metaphor, but the metaphor makes no sense.
I think she was saying that reporters should be accountable to someone. If they were elected, they would be accountable to voters.

SoCalGriz
3rd String
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:40 am
I am a fan of: Montana

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by SoCalGriz » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:25 pm

There are certain professions that should be required to take an ethics test every year. Actually it would be nice if everyone could pass an ethics test, but only a few people in society have as much influence as a politician, journalist, lawyer etc.
I would rather be fat drunk and stupid then be a bobcat.

tnt
Starter
Posts: 1980
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:42 am
I am a fan of: UM

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by tnt » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:30 pm

It would seem to me that whether Ms Pabst is right or wrong, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. She is inferring as much if not more than the reporter she is calling out. Problem is one IS an ethics violation and the other is just pure "sensationalism" which can be classed as puffery.

User avatar
FCS Go!
2nd String
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:29 pm
Location: New York

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by FCS Go! » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:34 pm

Would Ms. Pabst be someone that DOJ would be looking into as part of their investigation?

PlayerRep
Hall of Fame
Posts: 18075
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by PlayerRep » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:46 pm

tnt wrote:It would seem to me that whether Ms Pabst is right or wrong, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. She is inferring as much if not more than the reporter she is calling out. Problem is one IS an ethics violation and the other is just pure "sensationalism" which can be classed as puffery.
Pabst is a highly regarded and respected lawyer, who has had and would continue to have access to considerable information. Please don't make ridiculous comments like you just did--when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Pabst is absolutely correct in what she said. Many of us in town have been saying the same thing. The Missoulian and Florio have been acting in unethical manner and publishing biased and incorrect information in some situations, in my view and the views of many others. The Missoulian continues to insinuate about old allegations that by now they have to know are not true. I think the Missoulian will eventually get sued over some aspects of what they have done.

PlayerRep
Hall of Fame
Posts: 18075
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by PlayerRep » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:48 pm

FCS Go! wrote:Would Ms. Pabst be someone that DOJ would be looking into as part of their investigation?
My prediction is that the DOJ will not find a single instance of gender discrimination (against women) in investigating and pursuing sexual assaults. That is the mainly what DOJ is looking for with regard to the county attorneys office. In fact, what they're investigating is whether there was a pattern of gender discrimination.

User avatar
wbtfg
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 5580
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:26 am
I am a fan of: Instigating

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by wbtfg » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:31 pm

Those damn forefathers and their damn freedom of press. If only there were some check and balance to prevent the press from constantly publishing outright lies.

If there were such a balance, I'm sure Ms. Pabst would have learned that in law school.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

msuhunter
3rd String
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:40 pm
I am a fan of: MSU

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by msuhunter » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:51 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
tnt wrote:It would seem to me that whether Ms Pabst is right or wrong, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. She is inferring as much if not more than the reporter she is calling out. Problem is one IS an ethics violation and the other is just pure "sensationalism" which can be classed as puffery.
Pabst is a highly regarded and respected lawyer, who has had and would continue to have access to considerable information. Please don't make ridiculous comments like you just did--when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Pabst is absolutely correct in what she said. Many of us in town have been saying the same thing. The Missoulian and Florio have been acting in unethical manner and publishing biased and incorrect information in some situations, in my view and the views of many others. The Missoulian continues to insinuate about old allegations that by now they have to know are not true. I think the Missoulian will eventually get sued over some aspects of what they have done.
If she "had and has" access to "considerable info" this looks like it could be an ethical violation for her to be talking about an ongoing investigation ...
Image

User avatar
IdaGriz01
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 6349
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: Idaho Falls

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by IdaGriz01 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:38 pm

wbtfg wrote:Those damn forefathers and their damn freedom of press. If only there were some check and balance to prevent the press from constantly publishing outright lies.

If there were such a balance, I'm sure Ms. Pabst would have learned that in law school.
Yep, we do have freedom of the press. And history had proven repeatedly that the alternative -- a controlled press -- is too dangerous to allow. Thus, "The Press" -- and by extension, the modern media -- has been granted the right to publish anything they think they can get away with. While there are legal standards to establish a case of slander and libel, those are not offenses that require/invoke action by regular law enforcement. If the target of a slanderous or libelous statement does not have the financial resources to pursue a case, there is -- in reality -- no "check" on the power of the press. Unrestrained power is seldom a good thing.

Of course, once upon a time it was generally accepted that rights came with responsibility, a form of restraint on that power. That time is long gone -- "freedom" has become "license" and pretty much "anything goes." So Ms Pabst has an equal right to "call them out," express her desire for responsible adult supervision at the newspaper, and wish for some mechanism to bring them to account.

There is, basically, only one realistic answer to what a person considers irresponsible journalism: Don't "consume" (and therefore pay for) their product, and -- if you feel strongly enough -- refuse to patronize those who do support that product, i.e. the advertisers. Some might call that an indirect form of censorship, and perhaps it is. Yet boycotts are both a legally and historically accepted form of protest, and simply another aspect of our free society. Newspapers cannot survive on subscriber revenue. In fact, many practically give away subscriptions, just to have more "eyeballs" to sell to advertisers. When advertisers stop buying space, that sucks money right out of the bottom line.

User avatar
Lady Fan of the Griz
3rd String
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:14 pm
I am a fan of: University of Montana
Location: Missoula

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by Lady Fan of the Griz » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:11 pm


User avatar
UMGriz75
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 7278
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:02 pm
I am a fan of: UM

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by UMGriz75 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:12 pm

I've known Kirsten for a long time. She was very aggressive in prosecution of sexual offender cases. She was also aware, with Karen Townsend her predecessor, of the "false" claims that have been made; several involving UM students, some involving athletes.
BadlandsGrizFan » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:40 pm
1. Griz- We got another year under Stitt's system, hes got HIS guy at D coordinator. Talented roster, lots of battle tested kids returning.

PlayerRep
Hall of Fame
Posts: 18075
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by PlayerRep » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:36 pm

msuhunter wrote:
PlayerRep wrote:
tnt wrote:It would seem to me that whether Ms Pabst is right or wrong, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. She is inferring as much if not more than the reporter she is calling out. Problem is one IS an ethics violation and the other is just pure "sensationalism" which can be classed as puffery.
Pabst is a highly regarded and respected lawyer, who has had and would continue to have access to considerable information. Please don't make ridiculous comments like you just did--when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Pabst is absolutely correct in what she said. Many of us in town have been saying the same thing. The Missoulian and Florio have been acting in unethical manner and publishing biased and incorrect information in some situations, in my view and the views of many others. The Missoulian continues to insinuate about old allegations that by now they have to know are not true. I think the Missoulian will eventually get sued over some aspects of what they have done.
If she "had and has" access to "considerable info" this looks like it could be an ethical violation for her to be talking about an ongoing investigation ...
Nope, various people in Missoula have access to good information. Nothing unethical there. People directly involved in ongoing investigations may have ethical duties not to disclose information. Pabst isn't a prosecutor anymore and doesn't have a duty to keep information about ongoing information confidential.

User avatar
jcu27
Starter
Posts: 2942
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:59 am
I am a fan of: UM
Location: Fort Collins, Co

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by jcu27 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:00 am

Ugh... Cat fans just stfu, you look stupid. It's sad that PR, one of the best posters and most intelligent on this board are questioned with idiotic questions. Simply PR is right just stfu and read.

Irish Duck
Walk On
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:27 pm
Location: Missoula

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by Irish Duck » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:10 am

I give Pabst a Blue Ribbon.

User avatar
IdaGriz01
Second Team All Conference
Posts: 6349
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: Idaho Falls

Re: Former Prosecutor Calls Out Missoulian

Post by IdaGriz01 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:22 am

Irish Duck wrote:I give Pabst a Blue Ribbon.
Just couldn't resist it couldya? :mrgreen:

Post Reply