What teams should drop a division?

[BigSkyBears]

Because you should move down. Actually, Big Sky, I hope your school comes around and is competitive. I have a problem with UM being in the Big Sky Conference as I've posted on this board many times. I realize, however, that we will be in the Big Sky for a long, long time. Good luck to Northern Colorado this coming season in all sports.

You must have a better reason than just "because." I've showed you data that proves we've increased ticket $$ and our contributions have skyrocketed. Our mens and womens b-ball teams have done very well as volleyball. I know in the Big Sky it's most important to have a good football team, but the Big Sky is obviously more than just football. I think I have more reasons to stay D1 than you have for us to move down. In your opinion, it's "because."

[BigSkyBears]

Why would UNC move down to D2?

Good point. 9-58 since joining the BSC solidifies your position.

We've done well in other sports. Kem, I met your son this past school year. He seems like a nice guy! Why aren't you as cool as he is?

[KoolMoeDee]

We've done well in other sports.

What was your best finish in the BSC all sports trophy ?

[kemajic]

EWU just won an FCS title and has played the Griz tougher than anybody else in the last 20 years in the Big Sky.

Possibly; a look at the data shows just how much tougher EWU has played the Griz than the rest of the BSC in the last 20 years. Not sure there is a statistical difference.

Boise St. 2-2
EWU 5-15
Idaho 1-3
MSU 4-16
CS Northridge 1-4
Weber 4-17
PSU 2-14
ISU 2-18
SacSt 1-16
NAU 1-19
UNC 0-8

It is, however, a pretty good picture of how tough the BSC has been on Montana.

[AZGrizFan]

EWU just won an FCS title and has played the Griz tougher than anybody else in the last 20 years in the Big Sky.

Possibly; a look at the data shows just how much tougher EWU has played the Griz than the rest of the BSC in the last 20 years. Not sure there is a statistical difference.

Boise St. 2-2
EWU 5-15
Idaho 1-3
MSU 4-16
CS Northridge 1-4
Weber 4-17
PSU 2-14
ISU 2-18
SacSt 1-16
NAU 1-19
UNC 0-8

It is, however, a pretty good picture of how tough the BSC has been on Montana.

Add incoming members Cal Poly, SUU, UC-Davis and UND to that list and the toughness just keeps getting better and better:

CP-SLO 2-12
SUU 1-4
UC-D 0-3
UND (7-11 overall, just 0-1 in the modern era)

[kemajic]

Why would UNC move down to D2?

Good point. 9-58 since joining the BSC solidifies your position.

We've done well in other sports. Kem, I met your son this past school year. He seems like a nice guy! Why aren't you as cool as he is?

Possibly because he has no ties to MT and drinks that local FC yuppy beer, while I'm still with Budweiser. Good guy with whom to have a Penn St. discussion.... Did you ask him for his opinion of Greeley?

Will be down for the game again this year; love the beer sales in the stadium.

[ordigger]

Oh the irony....what if its Montana that drops down? And we are in a division lower than UNC & SUU? Could happen.

I'd like most to see Alabama, Michigan, Texas, USC and Oklahoma drop a division. Sort of a demonstration of how the most colleges have to do things.

[WILDCATFAN]

If this is really based on Football and basketball attendance, then teams like Montana State should be forced to move down because they cant even average 3,000 fans in basketball, and Montana can barely average 4,000 and that number is largely thanks to 2 home games against Weber State.

How many of those two did Bball power Weber win?

Follow up your argument with data for combined average FB and BB attendance for MSU, UM and Weber, please.

Ok Mr. Facts.

The combined Football and Basketball attendance for all 9 teams in the Big Sky last year.

Thanks to Football MSU and UM are definetely leading the pack

1. Montana - 29,756
2. Montana State- 19,993
3. Weber State- 15,364
4. Eastern Washington- 11,184
5. Sacramento State- 10,201
6. Idaho State- 9,767
7. Northern Arizona- 6,923
8. Portland State- 6,771
9. Northern Colorado- 5,497

[kemajic]

Follow up your argument with data for combined average FB and BB attendance for MSU, UM and Weber, please.

Ok Mr. Facts.

The combined Football and Basketball attendance for all 9 teams in the Big Sky last year.

Thanks to Football MSU and UM are definetely leading the pack

1. Montana - 29,756
2. Montana State- 19,993
3. Weber State- 15,364
4. Eastern Washington- 11,184
5. Sacramento State- 10,201
6. Idaho State- 9,767
7. Northern Arizona- 6,923
8. Portland State- 6,771
9. Northern Colorado- 5,497

Quite enlightening data; many thanks. It speaks volumes about the BSC. And unless you include hockey, I doubt it will change much with the new additions. It likely doesn't even tell the full story about revenue generation ranking as UM has the highest ticket prices in the BSC; it would not surprise me if Weber has the highest BBall ticket prices. Supply and demand....

Facts are very often the best tool to bring passionate or biased discussions back to reality; even if the perps don't like it so much....

You're very coachable.

[WILDCATFAN]

Follow up your argument with data for combined average FB and BB attendance for MSU, UM and Weber, please.

The combined Football and Basketball attendance for all 9 teams in the Big Sky last year.

Thanks to Football MSU and UM are definetely leading the pack

1. Montana - 29,756
2. Montana State- 19,993
3. Weber State- 15,364
4. Eastern Washington- 11,184
5. Sacramento State- 10,201
6. Idaho State- 9,767
7. Northern Arizona- 6,923
8. Portland State- 6,771
9. Northern Colorado- 5,497

Quite enlightening data; many thanks. It speaks volumes about the BSC. And unless you include hockey, I doubt it will change much with the new additions. It likely doesn't even tell the full story about revenue generation ranking as UM has the highest ticket prices in the BSC; it would not surprise me if Weber has the highest BBall ticket prices. Supply and demand....

Facts are very often the best tool to bring passionate or biased discussions back to reality; even if the perps don't like it so much....

You're very coachable.

The new list with UND and SUU added

1. Montana - 29,756
2. Montana State- 19,993
3. Weber State- 15,364
4. Eastern Washington- 11,184
5. Sacramento State- 10,201
6. North Dakota- 9,885
7. Idaho State- 9,767
8. Southern Utah- 9,168
9. Northern Arizona- 6,923
10. Portland State- 6,771
11. Northern Colorado- 5,497

note Cal Poly and Davis are not on the list since they are only affiliate members

the cheapest ticket at a Weber State hoops game is 10 bucks, however they raised those prices to 15 bucks apiece when we hosted USU, Utah and Texas Arlington, I think the most expensive Basketball ticket is around 20 to 28 bucks down towards the bottom

[ewueagle2010]

I was unaware that the level a school played at was based strictly on attendance at games. I thought it was about the level of competitiveness that a team could put on the field.

So if this is the case, Montana and Montana State and North Dakota State would be about the only schools west of the Mississippi River that were FCS qualified. Good luck with that travel schedule!

Those of you that think this way really need to pull your heads from beneath the sand...

[AZGrizFan]

I was unaware that the level a school played at was based strictly on attendance at games. I thought it was about the level of competitiveness that a team could put on the field.

So if this is the case, Montana and Montana State and North Dakota State would be about the only schools west of the Mississippi River that were FCS qualified. Good luck with that travel schedule!

Those of you that think this way really need to pull your heads from beneath the sand...

Nooooooooot really. I think you're looking at it ass-backwards. Montana, NDSU (and to a lesser degree MSU) play at (or could play at with a little lift and 22 extra schollies) a level equivalent with Washington State, Idaho, Utah State, Colorado State, Wyoming, Air Force Academy, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Nevada, San Jose State, San Diego State, Fresno State, etc., etc.

THAT doesn't sound like too bad of a travel schedule to me.

[kemajic]

I was unaware that the level a school played at was based strictly on attendance at games. I thought it was about the level of competitiveness that a team could put on the field.

So if this is the case, Montana and Montana State and North Dakota State would be about the only schools west of the Mississippi River that were FCS qualified. Good luck with that travel schedule!

Those of you that think this way really need to pull your heads from beneath the sand...

Let's see; you think its all about competitiveness and not about money - and you think we're the ones with heads in the sand?

There was an argument based on competitiveness posted earlier (BSC records against UM the last 20 years); possibly your denial obscured that one. Pretty much the same story....

[Paytonlives]

Fellas... Its not really about dropping down for most teams.. Its about being left behind by the Money hungry Heavy Weights!

[ewueagle2010]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

[WaGriz4life]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

Missoula, MT and Moscow are not even close to the same. Missoula is a much more attractive college town than a lot of Mountain West and WAC schools.

[grizcountry420]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

You're talking about Idaho here... I gaurantee you that we would win a conference title within a few years after joining a conference like WAC or Mountain West.....

[WILDCATFAN]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

I dont think if Montana moved up that they would end up being just like Idaho, Montana has better facilities hands down, they have a larger more dedicated fanbase. I think they could be pretty competetive in the Mtn West, but thier National Title dreams would cease to exist. With this 4 team playoff for the BCS, they are not going to be inviting Mtn West teams over B12, B10, P12 or SEC teams, And those teams are gonna start avoiding scheduling the lower teams so they can get a better strength of schedules, this "playoff" sure doesnt help the teams not in the Big 12, Big 10, SEC or Pac 12

[grizcountry420]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

I dont think if Montana moved up that they would end up being just like Idaho, Montana has better facilities hands down, they have a larger more dedicated fanbase. I think they could be pretty competetive in the Mtn West, but thier National Title dreams would cease to exist. With this 4 team playoff for the BCS, they are not going to be inviting Mtn West teams over B12, B10, P12 or SEC teams, And those teams are gonna start avoiding scheduling the lower teams so they can get a better strength of schedules, this "playoff" sure doesnt help the teams not in the Big 12, Big 10, SEC or Pac 12

The winners of those 4 conferences will be chosen for the playoffs too..

[AZGrizFan]

Of course money plays a role, but attendance was something that was being made out to be the deciding factor, IMO. Plus I thought the conversation was about which teams should drop a division, not move up..

If Montana wants to move up, then great, more power to them. I think it would be stupid to give up something good. They'd NEVER, EVER win a National Championship at the FBS level and they'd rarely win conference titles. Just because you have extra scholarships to give out, doesn't mean you're going to get the best players to attend U of M. Kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools. The same thing happened to Idaho and now look at them.

Have you SEEN some of the shitholes where FBS schools reside? And yet, somehow, they manage to draw the "best players" to those towns...

Missoula is >>>>>>>>> Lincoln, NB, Pullman, WA, Laramie, WY, Moscow, ID, Albuquerque, NM, El Paso, TX, Las Cruces, NM, Norman or Tulsa, OK, Iowa City, IA, Starkville, MS, Oxford, MS....and the list goes on and on. And yes, I've been to every one of those towns...

I'm not saying EVERY recruit would choose Missoula over those locations, but to state unequivocally that "kids aren't going to choose Missoula, MT over other schools" is flat out wrong. Now, it probably IS true when you're speaking about Cheney, WA.

[ewueagle2010]

Ahhh yes, there it is! I was waiting for the "better than Cheney" comment!! However, I'm not at all saying EWU should move up. I like FCS level because I like having a chance of winning the National Title. And just for the record, Cheney isn't that bad at all. You're 20 minutes from Washington's second biggest city... aka 4x's the size of Missoula.

Missoula is better than many FBS towns, no doubt. BUT the town itself is not the entire basis of a college age kids decision. Is a recruit going to pick Montana over Oklahoma, Nebraska, or Ole Miss!?!? Absolutely not!! I do believe that U of M would be more successful than Idaho and could eventually compete for a Mountain West or WAC title in a few years, but most of those teams suck. Why would you only want that for your team?

[AZGrizFan]

Ahhh yes, there it is! I was waiting for the "better than Cheney" comment!! However, I'm not at all saying EWU should move up. I like FCS level because I like having a chance of winning the National Title. And just for the record, Cheney isn't that bad at all. You're 20 minutes from Washington's second biggest city... aka 4x's the size of Missoula.

Missoula is better than many FBS towns, no doubt. BUT the town itself is not the entire basis of a college age kids decision. Is a recruit going to pick Montana over Oklahoma, Nebraska, or Ole Miss!?!? Absolutely not!! I do believe that U of M would be more successful than Idaho and could eventually compete for a Mountain West or WAC title in a few years, but most of those teams suck. Why would you only want that for your team?

a) I've been to Cheney, more times than I care to admit. The comment was made in jest (mostly).
b) Being 20 minutes from Spokomton is like being 20 minutes from East L.A. It ain't nothing to brag about...if population were everything, Tucson wouldn't be the shithole that IT is...there's nothing worse than a town with an inferiority complex, and Spokomton has that locked DOWN.
c) We already have recruits who've picked Missoula over Moscow, Pullman, San Diego, Colorado Springs, etc....it CAN--and does--happen, with more regularity than you or others might care to admit. Maybe it's a quality of life issue, maybe it's a playing time issue, maybe its a better offer issue (full vs partial, partial vs walkon, etc)...who knows, but it does happen. IF a student had the opportunity to come to Missoula AND be playing at the highest level, it would happen even more. To think otherwise is just foolish.

[ewueagle2010]

I'd pick Cheney, Spokane and Tucson over Missoula any day without hesitation and I'm from Montana...guess it's all about personal preference!! You can quit acting like Missoula is heaven on earth anytime now...

[AZGrizFan]

I'd pick Cheney, Spokane and Tucson over Missoula any day without hesitation and I'm from Montana...guess it's all about personal preference!! You can quit acting like Missoula is heaven on earth anytime now...

Well, I seriously question your intelligence level then.

[Geddes]

Note to self: do not ask ewueagle about his taste in stuff..