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JJ Trial

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grizhunter
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby grizhunter » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:34 am

TxGriz wrote:Did I see somewhere in the tweets that the alleged victim's underwear was removed voluntarily? I think I know what the legal framework for rape is and when it gets to that point, the prosecution's case for rape gets into some really fine hair splitting. :roll:


I have been a juror in a major rape case, rape is when there is any penetraion in any orifice of the body, has nothing to do with taking underware off. If she decided "NO" after she did, it is rape if forced as I was led to believe in the court. Even if she didn't fight at all, all a person has to do is say no and if penetrated, trouble.
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wbtfg
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:36 am

TxGriz wrote:Did I see somewhere in the tweets that the alleged victim's underwear was removed voluntarily? :roll:


I don't think the testimony made it that far yet. So, no...unless it was mentioned somewhere other than the trial.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby poorgriz » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:37 am

TxGriz wrote:Did I see somewhere in the tweets that the alleged victim's underwear was removed voluntarily? I think I know what the legal framework for rape is and when it gets to that point, the prosecution's case for rape gets into some really fine hair splitting. :roll:


Wrong. At ANY point in time a woman has the right to change her mind, despite what she may have said or done five minutes prior.
Bobby Hauck is God. He's not a God... he's the God.

wbtfg
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:24 am

wbtfg wrote:
TxGriz wrote:Did I see somewhere in the tweets that the alleged victim's underwear was removed voluntarily? :roll:


I don't think the testimony made it that far yet. So, no...unless it was mentioned somewhere other than the trial.


From today's testimony.

Woman says Johnson took her pants and underwear off and it was not consensual. Says Johnson was holding her down.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

ilovethecats
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby ilovethecats » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:27 am

yikes. these tweets are just brutal to listen to. might have to stay away for a while. you couldn't pay me a million dollars to be on that jury. :(

RABIDAWG
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby RABIDAWG » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:28 am

Who the hell is "the woman"? Isn't this public info now that she's testifying?
Now, dammit, get out there and HURT somebody!

wbtfg
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:29 am

RABIDAWG wrote:Who the hell is "the woman"? Isn't this public info now that she's testifying?


Nope...no names, pictures, or any identifying information has been released.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

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grizfnz
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby grizfnz » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:59 am

Interesting testimony from Jane Doe.
"i knew I was going to get raped"

Followed by text to roommate
"OMG I think I just got raped".

During cross examination will the defense push the issue of the difference between I knew and I think?

Also can anybody verify if the accused has arms long enough to "arm bar" Jane across the chest and still be able to fully remove leggings and underwear from her who via testimony said she was resisting and trying to push him off with her legs and holding her legs together?


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wbtfg
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:13 am

grizfnz wrote:Interesting testimony from Jane Doe.
"i knew I was going to get raped"

Followed by text to roommate
"OMG I think I just got raped".

During cross examination will the defense push the issue of the difference between I knew and I think?

Also can anybody verify if the accused has arms long enough to "arm bar" Jane across the chest and still be able to fully remove leggings and underwear from her who via testimony said she was resisting and trying to push him off with her legs and holding her legs together?


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


Yeah....im sure defense will press those issues, then state will bring in paid "experts" to explain that its normal in a date rape situation, then the defense will bring in paid "experts" to refute that.
basically its a matter of whose story do you believe, and i imagine most of egriz will believe jj.

In the end, though, its going to up to an impartial jury to decide if there is enough evidence to convict or not.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby ilovethecats » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:57 am

i will say that this trial is fascinating. reading the tweets today, you come away sure that this piece of shit raped this woman. you listen to all her testimony and ask yourself why anypne would make up such an elaborate lie like this...

but then the defense will start and you'll find yourself sure that there is no way a bright young kid like jj could ever do such a terrible thing. you'll be sure this was just a case of a jaded lover...

pretty crazy stuff. as i said, i don't envy that jury at all. basically the fate of two young kids is in your hands.

yuck. :x

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby BDizzle » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:11 pm

As iltc said it seems like he did assault her after reading her testimony. She sure seemed to have told quite a few people, (friends, professors, counselors) that he assaulted her within a few days of the alleged incident. Guess we will see the other side of the story.

My feelings are she truly feels like he did assault her and he truly feels like he didn't assault her. This is a tough one. No matter what happens both of their lives will forever be changed.
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catdaddy7
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby catdaddy7 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:22 pm

Wow, This is going to get even uglier before it's done. Makes me sad that this is
even going on. Why would she concoct such a story? Why would JJ jeopardize his
future for a fling? Tough questions;; glad I'm not a juror.

ilovethecats
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby ilovethecats » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:22 pm

BDizzle wrote:As iltc said.


it's actually ilovethecats. or i love the cats. say it with me. I...LOVE...THE...CATS...

;)

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Silvertip » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:56 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
BDizzle wrote:As iltc said.


it's actually ilovethecats. or i love the cats. say it with me. I...LOVE...THE...CATS...

;)


"What is this thing called love?" versus "What is this thing called, love?" Ah, punctuation! ;)
THIS POST SENT WHILE GUZZLING LAGER FROM MY TAP-A-KEG (c)

JSTGriz
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby JSTGriz » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:58 pm

so...... with my freedom of speech do i have the right to release the accusers name if i know it?

wbtfg
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:01 pm

JSTGriz wrote:so...... with my freedom of speech do i have the right to release the accusers name if i know it?


I dont know about the law, but, imho, it would be in very poor taste if you did.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby JSTGriz » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:02 pm

wbtfg wrote:
JSTGriz wrote:so...... with my freedom of speech do i have the right to release the accusers name if i know it?


I dont know about the law, but, imho, it would be in very poor taste if you did.



i agree with you, but its not hard to find her.

Teton Cat
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Teton Cat » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:11 pm

Could anyone describe in "general terms" what the victim looks like?

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby NorthEndZoneDan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:20 pm

Silvertip wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:
BDizzle wrote:As iltc said.


it's actually ilovethecats. or i love the cats. say it with me. I...LOVE...THE...CATS...

;)


"What is this thing called love?" versus "What is this thing called, love?" Ah, punctuation! ;)

there's an old joke and a great book Eats, Shoots, and Leaves :D
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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Blgs Griz Fan » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:23 pm

It's the prosecutions duty to paint JJ as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and that is what they are rtrying to do with this testimony. Having sat in on a sexual molestation case I can remember listening to the prosecution and their arguments and looking at the defenedent thinking what a dirty low life sob he was. Then the defense came forward and I listened to that argument and realized it may be entirely different. The end result of that trial was 11 innocent and 1 guilty, hung jury.

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby grizpack » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:28 pm

Blgs Griz Fan wrote:It's the prosecutions duty to paint JJ as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and that is what they are rtrying to do with this testimony. Having sat in on a sexual molestation case I can remember listening to the prosecution and their arguments and looking at the defenedent thinking what a dirty low life sob he was. Then the defense came forward and I listened to that argument and realized it may be entirely different. The end result of that trial was 11 innocent and 1 guilty, hung jury.


If the prosecution isn't "winning" at this point in the trial, they are REALLY bad. They are trying to hit their home run with the first witness.

The defense will pick her story to pieces. I bet we are going to hear that she has several versions of the story. ;)

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Jerry Punch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:33 pm

grizpack wrote:
Blgs Griz Fan wrote:It's the prosecutions duty to paint JJ as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and that is what they are rtrying to do with this testimony. Having sat in on a sexual molestation case I can remember listening to the prosecution and their arguments and looking at the defenedent thinking what a dirty low life sob he was. Then the defense came forward and I listened to that argument and realized it may be entirely different. The end result of that trial was 11 innocent and 1 guilty, hung jury.


If the prosecution isn't "winning" at this point in the trial, they are REALLY bad. They are trying to hit their home run with the first witness.

The defense will pick her story to pieces. I bet we are going to hear that she has several versions of the story. ;)


Nice smug face. I hope you feel good about yourself, lady.

However they pick it apart, they ought to be extremely careful in doing it. This isn't a cross examination where you get up and rip the alleged victim to pieces. If it is Paoli doing it, he will look like an asshole to the only people who matter -the jury. I hope it is Pabst, who can calmly and dispassoniately challenge her version of the events.

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Jerry Punch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:36 pm

JSTGriz wrote:so...... with my freedom of speech do i have the right to release the accusers name if i know it?


Why? Is she on trial? No. The LAW says that the victim does not go on trial. This isn't the Kobe Bryant case. This is Montana. We conduct ourselves with a bit more class and adherence to the law. No one is above it and no one below. We aren't entitled to know her name, but if you say it, you may want to confer with PlayerRep, expert in internet defamation cases. He may know how to defend you in such a case as he has threatened a variety of Egrizzers with lawsuits for "defaming him."

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby wbtfg » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:43 pm

Am i reading correctly that jj's attorney hired a P.I. before woman contacted police?
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”

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Re: JJ Trial

Postby Jerry Punch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:45 pm

wbtfg wrote:Am i reading correctly that jj's attorney hired a P.I. before woman contacted police?


Yes. And Paoli did some investigating on his own. No shame and no class, but he's doing his job, I guess. At what cost? Let's let Egrizzers decide.



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