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Offense

M

mtgrizrule

Well-known member
Let's discuss our offense, or lack there of. We expected our OL to be inconsistent this season. Most us are not surprised that Wyoming and NDSU each beat our OL consistently. Good thing is, the OL is young and it takes time to get in sync, so it will continue to improve. Against solid defenses JJ and rest our offense has very little opportunity to execute. Why is that? It looks to me it goes beyond the obvious OL inexperience and youth. Our coaching staff is not helping anything. Hell our Offensive staff cannot get out of it's own shadow.

This is not about the style of play they have chosen but the play calling in the chosen style. This staff needs to help our young OL and JJ with implementing more quick passing, with slants, ins, outs, hooks and drags. Defenses know most our routes are long developing, and very seldom do we have short quick routes of any sort on most plays. This offense does not try or know how to open up the middle of the field. This was a problem for most of last season as well, even with an experienced OL we relied too much on long pass plays.

This staff cannot continue to be this stubborn. A young OL needs to be helped a lot more by better offensive play calling. We have a SR QB, and damn fine skill position players. They are not able to be effective until this staff learns to change their strategy. Is this offense so predictable and lack of creativity makes game planning easy against our Offense?

It is a damn shame we have OC's holding back a very good SR QB with plenty of talent at skill positions. I'd love to have a offensive staff that calls a game like EWU, MSU, or Sac State calls. Is this staff ever going to stop being stubborn offensively?

I'd love to hear what others have to say. Let's not use the bring back Pflu style either. I really don't think the style is the problem. It is the play calling and lack of creativity.
 
mtgrizrule said:
Let's discuss our offense, or lack there of. We expected our OL to be inconsistent this season. Most us are not surprised that Wyoming and NDSU each beat our OL consistently. Good thing is, the OL is young and it takes time to get in sync, so it will continue to improve. Against solid defenses JJ and rest our offense has very little opportunity to execute. Why is that? It looks to me it goes beyond the obvious OL inexperience and youth. Our coaching staff is not helping anything. Hell our Offensive staff cannot get out of it's own shadow.

This is not about the style of play they have chosen but the play calling in the chosen style. This staff needs to help our young OL and JJ with implementing more quick passing, with slants, ins, outs, hooks and drags. Defenses know most our routes are long developing, and very seldom do we have short quick routes of any sort on most plays. This offense does not try or know how to open up the middle of the field. This was a problem for most of last season as well, even with an experienced OL we relied too much on long pass plays.

This staff cannot continue to be this stubborn. A young OL needs to be helped a lot more by better offensive play calling. We have a SR QB, and damn fine skill position players. They are not able to be effective until this staff learns to change their strategy. Is this offense so predictable and lack of creativity makes game planning easy against our Offense?

It is a damn shame we have OC's holding back a very good SR QB with plenty of talent at skill positions. I'd love to have a offensive staff that calls a game like EWU, MSU, or Sac State calls. Is this staff ever going to stop being stubborn offensively?

I'd love to hear what others have to say. Let's not use the bring back Pflu style either. I really don't think the style is the problem. It is the play calling and lack of creativity.
Click to expand...


No, it is the style.
 
Listening to the Gregorak defenders, you guys are total assholes for even talking about this.
 
You have to take into consideration what is available. Under Pflu you had a team going back to a very dynamic score real quick type of offense after years of bobby ball. He had recruited for this style of play and then all the bad went down. Suddenly you have a group of coaches that have no clue how to run the spread offense but half the kids are here for that. Personally I think SSH is a better fit for power offense but hey, your going to sit JJ after all he's been through? It is what it is, and the team and fans simply have to ride it out.

Now if we want to discuss what style of offense we should run that is a different debate.
 
the co-coordinator (is that a huge mistake or what) is the same genius who was the special teams idiot who dreamed up the scheme that failed spectacularly. you know the play, you know what I'm talking about. KH needs to get it together or get the hell out.
 
b_f_c_99 said:
You have to take into consideration what is available. Under Pflu you had a team going back to a very dynamic score real quick type of offense after years of bobby ball. He had recruited for this style of play and then all the bad went down. Suddenly you have a group of coaches that have no clue how to run the spread offense but half the kids are here for that. Personally I think SSH is a better fit for power offense but hey, your going to sit JJ after all he's been through? It is what it is, and the team and fans simply have to ride it out.

Now if we want to discuss what style of offense we should run that is a different debate.
Click to expand...

I don't buy all of that B.S. about having to recruit certain types of players or they will not be able to run an effective offense. It is all about blocking and tackling. JJ may be better in a spread, but he has been an accurate passer in the past, and there is no reason he should not be effective passing from a pro-style offense. Too many excuse for my taste. It is all about recruiting, coaching, and running an offense that makes the best use of your personnel. And we are not doing any of these very well right now.
 
It's an unfortunate situation.

We have the personnel and QB for a great spread offense, but none of the coaches are comfortable running it (even though I felt they did a great job, all things considered, in 2012).

So no matter if we play to the players' strengths or the coaches' strengths, we aren't able to maximize our potential.

The ghost of Pflugrad still haunts our program.
 
I agree with MTgrizrule on this. Something needs to change and quick. JJ is a heck of a QB and young man. However he is a QB going completely against the grain of what he has done for years period. Last year he a a more seasoned like to work behind. This year not so much. If the coaches want to stick to the exact same game plan this season maybe another QB more suited for the pro set is needed. I said in another post JJ is not going to be in long is he keeps getting drilled like this much longer.

I think the coaches need to follow what MTGrizrule is saying. This would help the OL out, help JJ out and maybe even open up the run game a little.
 
uofmman1122 said:
It's an unfortunate situation.

We have the personnel and QB for a great spread offense, but none of the coaches are comfortable running it (even though I felt they did a great job, all things considered, in 2012).

So no matter if we play to the players' strengths or the coaches' strengths, we aren't able to maximize our potential.

The ghost of Pflugrad still haunts our program.
Click to expand...

Three years later?
 
...is going to improve and be just fine. We will hang 50 on a couple of Big Sky teams with no problem.
 
PhxGriz said:
uofmman1122 said:
It's an unfortunate situation.

We have the personnel and QB for a great spread offense, but none of the coaches are comfortable running it (even though I felt they did a great job, all things considered, in 2012).

So no matter if we play to the players' strengths or the coaches' strengths, we aren't able to maximize our potential.

The ghost of Pflugrad still haunts our program.
Click to expand...

Three years later?
Click to expand...
As long as JJ is our QB, yes.

I told everyone when it happened it would be years before we got over it. Next year might be the first time we won't feel the effects as much.
 
uofmman1122 said:
PhxGriz said:
uofmman1122 said:
It's an unfortunate situation.

We have the personnel and QB for a great spread offense, but none of the coaches are comfortable running it (even though I felt they did a great job, all things considered, in 2012).

So no matter if we play to the players' strengths or the coaches' strengths, we aren't able to maximize our potential.

The ghost of Pflugrad still haunts our program.
Click to expand...

Three years later?
Click to expand...
As long as JJ is our QB, yes.

I told everyone when it happened it would be years before we got over it. Next year might be the first time we won't feel the effects as much.
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying, but do you really thing SSH is the answer. I am fine with you saying he fits the offense, but please tell me you think Gustafson is better.
 
I'll go to the waaaaaaaay back machine so this may be lengthy.

Don Read came in 1985 he didn't promise sucess, what he did promise is it would be fun to watch. And really it was, and at times frustrating. But they didn't make the playoffs until what 1989 or so? Won a couple of games then got taken out by Youngstown or Georgia Southern. But then no playoffs for a couple of years. And then something magical happened. Boise, Idaho, and Nevado Reno LEFT THE CONFERENCE. Now they could make the playoffs ALOT easier. Anyway a couple more years of playoffs and then get beat by Youngstown, and other power run type teams. Same sort of loss as today, get caught in the slow down game, get beaten down in the 3rd and 4th quarter, run out of time.

The solution? Flip this around on the power teams. Create an offense that would score FAST and then use your defense to sell-out and just go after the other teams offense with the intention of causing turn overs and quick 3 and outs. If they got scored on, now worries put the super fast offense back on the field, let the other team know we are going to score 45+ points. At times of course this failed horribly. But once they got it going they flipped that 4th quarter scenario around where the team that runs it down your throat and kills 9 minutes of the 4th quarter now has to try and play catch up. The culmination? 1995 national championship. And then 2002 with Joe Glenn.

Enter Bobby Hauck, The griz can get great recruits, no Reno, Boise, Idaho its easy to out recruit the rest of the Big Sky. So it was easy to win lots of games playing power football. I remember the first radio show he did where he stated that although xxx playerwas a nice little player, he would never recruit 'undersize' players and they would just be more physical than everyone. Great plan, in the Big Sky, but a total crap shoot when playing other super physical teams. Would have Hauck won today? Maybe I give it 50/50.

So really the question is power football to get easy wins in the Big Sky? Or rebuild something different and dynamic to win another National Championship?
 
b_f_c_99 said:
I'll go to the waaaaaaaay back machine so this may be lengthy.

Don Read came in 1985 he didn't promise sucess, what he did promise is it would be fun to watch. And really it was, and at times frustrating. But they didn't make the playoffs until what 1989 or so? Won a couple of games then got taken out by Youngstown or Georgia Southern. But then no playoffs for a couple of years. And then something magical happened. Boise, Idaho, and Nevado Reno LEFT THE CONFERENCE. Now they could make the playoffs ALOT easier. Anyway a couple more years of playoffs and then get beat by Youngstown, and other power run type teams. Same sort of loss as today, get caught in the slow down game, get beaten down in the 3rd and 4th quarter, run out of time.

The solution? Flip this around on the power teams. Create an offense that would score FAST and then use your defense to sell-out and just go after the other teams offense with the intention of causing turn overs and quick 3 and outs. If they got scored on, now worries put the super fast offense back on the field, let the other team know we are going to score 45+ points. At times of course this failed horribly. But once they got it going they flipped that 4th quarter scenario around where the team that runs it down your throat and kills 9 minutes of the 4th quarter now has to try and play catch up. The culmination? 1995 national championship. And then 2002 with Joe Glenn.

Enter Bobby Hauck, The griz can get great recruits, no Reno, Boise, Idaho its easy to out recruit the rest of the Big Sky. So it was easy to win lots of games playing power football. I remember the first radio show he did where he stated that although xxx playerwas a nice little player, he would never recruit 'undersize' players and they would just be more physical than everyone. Great plan, in the Big Sky, but a total crap shoot when playing other super physical teams. Would have Hauck won today? Maybe I give it 50/50.

So really the question is power football to get easy wins in the Big Sky? Or rebuild something different and dynamic to win another National Championship?
Click to expand...

Is that what we are doing? Rebuilding a different and dynamic team that will win a National Championship?
 
PhxGriz said:
b_f_c_99 said:
I'll go to the waaaaaaaay back machine so this may be lengthy.

Don Read came in 1985 he didn't promise sucess, what he did promise is it would be fun to watch. And really it was, and at times frustrating. But they didn't make the playoffs until what 1989 or so? Won a couple of games then got taken out by Youngstown or Georgia Southern. But then no playoffs for a couple of years. And then something magical happened. Boise, Idaho, and Nevado Reno LEFT THE CONFERENCE. Now they could make the playoffs ALOT easier. Anyway a couple more years of playoffs and then get beat by Youngstown, and other power run type teams. Same sort of loss as today, get caught in the slow down game, get beaten down in the 3rd and 4th quarter, run out of time.

The solution? Flip this around on the power teams. Create an offense that would score FAST and then use your defense to sell-out and just go after the other teams offense with the intention of causing turn overs and quick 3 and outs. If they got scored on, now worries put the super fast offense back on the field, let the other team know we are going to score 45+ points. At times of course this failed horribly. But once they got it going they flipped that 4th quarter scenario around where the team that runs it down your throat and kills 9 minutes of the 4th quarter now has to try and play catch up. The culmination? 1995 national championship. And then 2002 with Joe Glenn.

Enter Bobby Hauck, The griz can get great recruits, no Reno, Boise, Idaho its easy to out recruit the rest of the Big Sky. So it was easy to win lots of games playing power football. I remember the first radio show he did where he stated that although xxx playerwas a nice little player, he would never recruit 'undersize' players and they would just be more physical than everyone. Great plan, in the Big Sky, but a total crap shoot when playing other super physical teams. Would have Hauck won today? Maybe I give it 50/50.

So really the question is power football to get easy wins in the Big Sky? Or rebuild something different and dynamic to win another National Championship?
Click to expand...

Is that what we are doing? Rebuilding a different and dynamic team that will win a National Championship?
Click to expand...

Sadly no, I think that is what Pflu was doing, now we are just trying to make the playoffs, but this is what Mick and company know. I don't think they are a bad coaching staff, just traditional, at best they will get back to the Bobby Ball crapshoot contest.
 
PhxGriz said:
uofmman1122 said:
PhxGriz said:
uofmman1122 said:
It's an unfortunate situation.

We have the personnel and QB for a great spread offense, but none of the coaches are comfortable running it (even though I felt they did a great job, all things considered, in 2012).

So no matter if we play to the players' strengths or the coaches' strengths, we aren't able to maximize our potential.

The ghost of Pflugrad still haunts our program.
Click to expand...

Three years later?
Click to expand...
As long as JJ is our QB, yes.

I told everyone when it happened it would be years before we got over it. Next year might be the first time we won't feel the effects as much.
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying, but do you really thing SSH is the answer. I am fine with you saying he fits the offense, but please tell me you think Gustafson is better.
Click to expand...
I don't know. I think JJ is our best option no matter what we run, but I'd be willing to bet he's be a lot better in a spread offense.

I haven't seen Gus play a lot, and even though I'm not a SSH fan, it's tough to say.

I just feel we have an offensive identity crisis right now.
 
And I should add, that I understand what Bobby was doing, after Don Read many teams figured out how to run and stop alot of what Don was doing. What I see more now is everyone is enamored with NDSU power ball and trying to emulate it. But really they are just better at it, at best you get into a 50/50 crapshoot. And then even after you win the super physical game, your all beat up for next week. Remember that playoff game against James Madison? Don Read didn't beat players up.
 
Great posts on this, and done in a classy manner. I logged on here tonight to make a thread and go on a rant about this exact same thing. The Griz has one of the most talented group of offensive players that they have ever had, JJ is one of the top 6 qb's that have been a Griz. Van and Canada are both extremely talented, although Van is trying to cut too much before he gets to the line. Henderson and Jones are both explosive receivers who both should be averaging over 75 yards a game, and Saylor is a great pass catching tight end. The o line has done surprisingly well since week 1. So what gives? It has got to be the lack of creative play calling and a lack of any short passing game to open up everything else up. So this goes directly on to the coaches again, it is the exact same team doing the same things as last season, nothing has changed. Heck the defense is playing decent and they are still doing the same things as last season with the corners playing 12 yards off and giving up every pass in front of them.

I hope that a whole new staff is employed next season, maybe a staff that is creative and wants to play an exciting brand of football.
 
I'm optimistic about our defense - can't say the same about our offense.

Canada has to be our go-to running back - he and Nguyen are better out of the backfield than Van. Van is a stud, fast, good in space, etc, etc and if used properly can be a game changer - difference maker. However, out of the backfield, hand the damn ball to Canada - he and Nguyen get up the field quicker and with our OL, that's a good thing.

Running off tackle and the one single pitch to Canada were all productive in the third - then we went away form it? Very frustrating to watch our offense.

The offense seems like it's one play from breaking free and then for some reason we slip right back into the same old stumbling, bumbling and tripping over ourselves. Like I said, very frustrating.

Very proud of the defense - we'll continue to improve on D and get even better - the D keep us in game close, in spite of the offense.
 
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