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Griz D vs. Aggie D on pass defense

G

Grizzoola

Well-known member
DONOR
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
 
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...

You start a post saying "I'll not bash the Griz D" and then proceed to write 3 paragraphs doing EXACTLY that.

OK, you seem REALLY confused, so let me try to help you out.

a) The Griz D did NOT intercept a pass for a TD.
b) There was no "fluke" play. There's no such thing as a fluke play. All plays count.
c) The UCD passing offense resulted in 234 yards on 19-34 passing, while the Griz passing offense resulted in 265 yards on 29-50 passing. TEN more completions....more yards.
d) Griz had 3 TD passes, while UCD had only one. More TD's. It appears that GRIZ receivers were more open than UCD receivers.
e) The Griz D should support the Griz O, just like the O supported the D in game 1. This is a TEAM game. All parts of the team have to be supported from time to time. Ask the MSU offense how they feel about their defense right about now. And why SHOULDN'T the D be the ones supporting the O? That is just a ludicrous supposition.

UCD's first four pass completions went for 23, 31, 22 and 38 yards. That's 114 yards. The fourth completion came on the first play of the 2nd quarter. They had 15 more completions for just 120 yards passing the remainder of the game and scored just 7 more points. And in that time, our offense outscored the UCD offense 27-7--even WITH a fumble on the 1 yard line again.

Quit hyperventilating....our offense and our defense will be fine.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...

You start a post saying "I'll not bash the Griz D" and then proceed to write 3 paragraphs doing EXACTLY that.

OK, you seem REALLY confused, so let me try to help you out.

a) The Griz D did NOT intercept a pass for a TD.
b) There was no "fluke" play. There's no such thing as a fluke play. All plays count.
c) The UCD passing offense resulted in 234 yards on 19-34 passing, while the Griz passing offense resulted in 265 yards on 29-50 passing. TEN more completions....more yards.
d) Griz had 3 TD passes, while UCD had only one. More TD's. It appears that GRIZ receivers were more open than UCD receivers.
e) The Griz D should support the Griz O, just like the O supported the D in game 1. This is a TEAM game. All parts of the team have to be supported from time to time. Ask the MSU offense how they feel about their defense right about now. And why SHOULDN'T the D be the ones supporting the O? That is just a ludicrous supposition.

UCD's first four pass completions went for 23, 31, 22 and 38 yards. That's 114 yards. The fourth completion came on the first play of the 2nd quarter. They had 15 more completions for just 120 yards passing the remainder of the game and scored just 7 more points. And in that time, our offense outscored the UCD offense 27-7--even WITH a fumble on the 1 yard line again.

Quit hyperventilating....our offense and our defense will be fine.
Click to expand...


Good post AZ
 
AZGrizFan said:
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...
You start a post saying "I'll not bash the Griz D" and then proceed to write 3 paragraphs doing EXACTLY that.
Click to expand...
I did not bash the Griz D. I only pointed out what I saw as some problems, maybe a little too forcefully.
AZGrizFan said:
OK, you seem REALLY confused, so let me try to help you out.

a) The Griz D did NOT intercept a pass for a TD.
b) There was no "fluke" play. There's no such thing as a fluke play. All plays count.
Click to expand...
Ok, I confused this game with another one. My point was that no team can count on some fluke event to solve its problems. It has to win on the fundamentals. No secret, there.
AZGrizFan said:
c) The UCD passing offense resulted in 234 yards on 19-34 passing, while the Griz passing offense resulted in 265 yards on 29-50 passing. TEN more completions....more yards.
Click to expand...
So, what? I didn't criticize Chalich or the receivers; I only pointed out that those sideline/screen passes by the Griz had more Davis defenders on hand than the Griz did when they ran one.
AZGrizFan said:
d) Griz had 3 TD passes, while UCD had only one. More TD's. It appears that GRIZ receivers were more open than UCD receivers.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about stats or TDs. I was talking about plays getting to that point. Of course, you can dismiss that observation by saying, "Well, we got more TDs, didn't we?" That wasn't my point. I saw a problem with consistent sideline/screen passes called by the Griz, well defended by Davis, while theirs weren't well defended by the Griz.
AZGrizFan said:
e) The Griz D should support the Griz O, just like the O supported the D in game 1. This is a TEAM game. All parts of the team have to be supported from time to time. Ask the MSU offense how they feel about their defense right about now. And why SHOULDN'T the D be the ones supporting the O? That is just a ludicrous supposition.
Click to expand...
We agree, here, but many on here think it's the D that wins games.
AZGrizFan said:
UCD's first four pass completions went for 23, 31, 22 and 38 yards. That's 114 yards. The fourth completion came on the first play of the 2nd quarter. They had 15 more completions for just 120 yards passing the remainder of the game and scored just 7 more points. And in that time, our offense outscored the UCD offense 27-7--even WITH a fumble on the 1 yard line again.
Click to expand...
This has no relevance to the topic of the thread, but thanks for your response. :)
AZGrizFan said:
Quit hyperventilating....our offense and our defense will be fine.
Click to expand...
I hope so, when the Griz play EWU & MSU.
 
Grizzoola said:
AZGrizFan said:
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...
You start a post saying "I'll not bash the Griz D" and then proceed to write 3 paragraphs doing EXACTLY that.
Click to expand...
I did not bash the Griz D. I only pointed out what I saw as some problems, maybe a little too forcefully.
AZGrizFan said:
OK, you seem REALLY confused, so let me try to help you out.

a) The Griz D did NOT intercept a pass for a TD.
b) There was no "fluke" play. There's no such thing as a fluke play. All plays count.
Click to expand...
Ok, I confused this game with another one. My point was that no team can count on some fluke event to solve its problems. It has to win on the fundamentals. No secret, there.
AZGrizFan said:
c) The UCD passing offense resulted in 234 yards on 19-34 passing, while the Griz passing offense resulted in 265 yards on 29-50 passing. TEN more completions....more yards.
Click to expand...
So, what? I didn't criticize Chalich or the receivers; I only pointed out that those sideline/screen passes by the Griz had more Davis defenders on hand than the Griz did when they ran one.
AZGrizFan said:
d) Griz had 3 TD passes, while UCD had only one. More TD's. It appears that GRIZ receivers were more open than UCD receivers.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about stats or TDs. I was talking about plays getting to that point. Of course, you can dismiss that observation by saying, "Well, we got more TDs, didn't we?" That wasn't my point. I saw a problem with consistent sideline/screen passes called by the Griz, well defended by Davis, while theirs weren't well defended by the Griz.
AZGrizFan said:
e) The Griz D should support the Griz O, just like the O supported the D in game 1. This is a TEAM game. All parts of the team have to be supported from time to time. Ask the MSU offense how they feel about their defense right about now. And why SHOULDN'T the D be the ones supporting the O? That is just a ludicrous supposition.
Click to expand...
We agree, here, but many on here think it's the D that wins games.
AZGrizFan said:
UCD's first four pass completions went for 23, 31, 22 and 38 yards. That's 114 yards. The fourth completion came on the first play of the 2nd quarter. They had 15 more completions for just 120 yards passing the remainder of the game and scored just 7 more points. And in that time, our offense outscored the UCD offense 27-7--even WITH a fumble on the 1 yard line again.
Click to expand...
This has no relevance to the topic of the thread, but thanks for your response. :)
AZGrizFan said:
Quit hyperventilating....our offense and our defense will be fine.
Click to expand...
I hope so, when the Griz play EWU & MSU.
Click to expand...

You called our secondary slow. If that ain't "bashing", I don't know what is.

Not sure what game you could have mistaken this one for. We haven't returned an INT for a TD in recent history (like YEARS).

Turnovers are not "fluke" events. They are the desired outcome of just about every single defensive play. So now it's a fluke when you get your desired outcome? That is SOME kind of logic there...

And having "more defenders" proves absolutely nothing. UCD was hell-bent on taking away a certain part of our pass game. We adjusted and took what they were giving us.

And my point with the info you deem as "having no relevance" was to point out that, after the first four completions, they must not have been TOO open because they got only 15 more for just 120 yards after getting almost 120 yards on the first four. See? That's called "adjustments". It's what a good defense does....even IF it's secondary is slow. :roll:
 
Grizzoola, I'm sorry, but you don't understand the game of football and you don't know what you're talking about. Almost everything you just posted is wrong. You are entitled to your view, but it's pretty clear to most of us, and it has been for a long time, that you don't understand the game. That's okay. I don't understand soccer, but I still watch it. (I don't post on soccer message boards, tho.)
 
The only thing I found frustrating about our defense in this game was our poor effort against their conventional screens, not the bubble screens. It's the obvious way to counter an aggressive pass rush and it just kept working for them. They hurt us several times when they needed a first down and I never observed an adjustment that stopped it.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Grizzoola said:
AZGrizFan said:
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...
You start a post saying "I'll not bash the Griz D" and then proceed to write 3 paragraphs doing EXACTLY that.
Click to expand...
I did not bash the Griz D. I only pointed out what I saw as some problems, maybe a little too forcefully.
AZGrizFan said:
OK, you seem REALLY confused, so let me try to help you out.

a) The Griz D did NOT intercept a pass for a TD.
b) There was no "fluke" play. There's no such thing as a fluke play. All plays count.
Click to expand...
Ok, I confused this game with another one. My point was that no team can count on some fluke event to solve its problems. It has to win on the fundamentals. No secret, there.
AZGrizFan said:
c) The UCD passing offense resulted in 234 yards on 19-34 passing, while the Griz passing offense resulted in 265 yards on 29-50 passing. TEN more completions....more yards.
Click to expand...
So, what? I didn't criticize Chalich or the receivers; I only pointed out that those sideline/screen passes by the Griz had more Davis defenders on hand than the Griz did when they ran one.
AZGrizFan said:
d) Griz had 3 TD passes, while UCD had only one. More TD's. It appears that GRIZ receivers were more open than UCD receivers.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about stats or TDs. I was talking about plays getting to that point. Of course, you can dismiss that observation by saying, "Well, we got more TDs, didn't we?" That wasn't my point. I saw a problem with consistent sideline/screen passes called by the Griz, well defended by Davis, while theirs weren't well defended by the Griz.
AZGrizFan said:
e) The Griz D should support the Griz O, just like the O supported the D in game 1. This is a TEAM game. All parts of the team have to be supported from time to time. Ask the MSU offense how they feel about their defense right about now. And why SHOULDN'T the D be the ones supporting the O? That is just a ludicrous supposition.
Click to expand...
We agree, here, but many on here think it's the D that wins games.
AZGrizFan said:
UCD's first four pass completions went for 23, 31, 22 and 38 yards. That's 114 yards. The fourth completion came on the first play of the 2nd quarter. They had 15 more completions for just 120 yards passing the remainder of the game and scored just 7 more points. And in that time, our offense outscored the UCD offense 27-7--even WITH a fumble on the 1 yard line again.
Click to expand...
This has no relevance to the topic of the thread, but thanks for your response. :)
AZGrizFan said:
Quit hyperventilating....our offense and our defense will be fine.
Click to expand...
I hope so, when the Griz play EWU & MSU.
Click to expand...

You called our secondary slow. If that ain't "bashing", I don't know what is.

Not sure what game you could have mistaken this one for. We haven't returned an INT for a TD in recent history (like YEARS).

Turnovers are not "fluke" events. They are the desired outcome of just about every single defensive play. So now it's a fluke when you get your desired outcome? That is SOME kind of logic there...

And having "more defenders" proves absolutely nothing. UCD was hell-bent on taking away a certain part of our pass game. We adjusted and took what they were giving us.

And my point with the info you deem as "having no relevance" was to point out that, after the first four completions, they must not have been TOO open because they got only 15 more for just 120 yards after getting almost 120 yards on the first four. See? That's called "adjustments". It's what a good defense does....even IF it's secondary is slow. :roll:
Click to expand...
AZ, excellent job of trying to straighten out this lost individual. I've removed myself from eGriz since week 1 since football was finally here but now Ive come back and I was about to lay into Grizoola for this ludicrous post but you did a much better job then I would have. Great work. Now y'all got me wondering when out last pick 6 was.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Not sure what game you could have mistaken this one for. We haven't returned an INT for a TD in recent history (like YEARS).
Click to expand...
Caleb Walden, Oct 6th 2012 vs Nor Colorado in the beggining of the second quarter to give us a 7-0 lead.
 
alabamagrizzly said:
AZGrizFan said:
Not sure what game you could have mistaken this one for. We haven't returned an INT for a TD in recent history (like YEARS).
Click to expand...
Caleb Walden, Oct 6th 2012 vs Nor Colorado in the beggining of the second quarter to give us a 7-0 lead.
Click to expand...
Hard to believe it would be against a powerhouse like that....
 
kemajic said:
The only thing I found frustrating about our defense in this game was our poor effort against their conventional screens, not the bubble screens. It's the obvious way to counter an aggressive pass rush and it just kept working for them. They hurt us several times when they needed a first down and I never observed an adjustment that stopped it.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what we got two picks on? Screen passes? How else could D-linemen get picks? That seems like a pretty good adjustment....
 
AZGrizFan said:
kemajic said:
The only thing I found frustrating about our defense in this game was our poor effort against their conventional screens, not the bubble screens. It's the obvious way to counter an aggressive pass rush and it just kept working for them. They hurt us several times when they needed a first down and I never observed an adjustment that stopped it.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what we got two picks on? Screen passes? How else could D-linemen get picks? That seems like a pretty good adjustment....
Click to expand...
The conventional screen plays Kem is talking about that seemed to be effective were short dump offs to the Running backs behind the line of scrimmage. UCD used several of these very effectively. They also used dump off passes to the RB out of the backfield for yardage that seemed to surprise/beat Gamboa. (Possibly out of position as Gamboa is our fastest LB.)
The first interception was caused by our pass rush and a poor decision by the UCD QB. (Through the ball up for grabs). The second was a forward pass to either a WR or RB. It might have been a screen play, but was definitely not behind the line of scrimmage.
Go Griz!
 
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...

You mad , bro? :evil: :wtf:
 
AZDoc said:
Grizzoola said:
I'll not bash the Griz D in this post. It did a helluva job keeping the Griz in the game. (BTW, why should they be the ones keeping the Griz in any game? They should be supporting the offense, not the other way around?) Whenever the Griz passed to a sideline receiver, there was only one Griz blocker, while there were at least 2 & sometimes 3 tacklers on him. Yet, when Davis did the same, the Griz had either one tackler or no tacklers on the receiver.

Davis was killing the Griz with slant and short-yardage passes, most for 1st downs. I'm no pass defense expert, but it was obvious that Davis receivers were more open than Griz receivers. The Griz secondary is slow. Davis' secondary was quick, getting to our receivers. Ty may have some theory of letting opponent receivers catch the ball, a kind of bend-don't-break pass defense. I don't like it, if that's the case, but I'm no Ty Gregorak. All I know is what I see on TV.

Yeah, I'm talking like the Griz lost the game, but they won it because of a fluk play by the D, intercepting a pass for a TD. OK, good & well. But, how long & how much can the Griz depend on fluk play success by the D? I cannot believe why the Griz did not win by a larger margin.
Click to expand...

You mad , bro? :evil: :wtf:
Click to expand...
Not mad, "bro," just trying to point out some things in the D that had me concerned. I'm sure Coach Ty knows anything I've said & will adjust for it. I do believe the Griz will go deep in the playoffs, if not to the NC game. But, they have to get by EWU, PSU, and MSU, altho many on here think the MSU game will be a given Griz win by the time they play. We shall see. BTW, UM is #12 & MSU is #18 in the FCS.

Chalich is our guy, and I expect to see the O gel more as the season progresses; the run game needs to be more effective. No secret, there.

Doctor, you have cute emoticons. Guess that's all you can do. Peace.
 
Wow. I'd like to say I've never seen such teeth-gnashing over holding a team to 13 points, but I'm sure it's happened here before.
 
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