Griz vs Badgers

[AZDoc]

somebody is going to have to hit the boards....hard.

that is where the Griz are weakest...not much inside game at all...But, if UM can hit their shots, and slow Wisconsin down, there is a good win here for the taking...Ward is going to have to speed up his shot and Stewart is going to be pounded...going to be fun if UM plays the UM game...

Slow Wisconsin down? I think I know what you meant to say -- keep UW from its normal scoring efficiency -- but seeing that made me laugh -- you won't have to try to slow us down.

Final score 29-27....pick the winner!

[62GRIZ]

Typical Badger fan writes:

I just don't see how this is a good matchup for Montana, but what do I know?

"Good matchup" for us doesn't mean we are likely to win, it means "good matchup" compared to what it might have been against some of the power inside teams. After looking at the other three four-seeds this is the best "matchup" the GRIZ could have hoped for. We are still a thirteen seed from an insignificant conference playing a four-seed from the best power conference (this year) in the country. We are underdogs and we accept that fate, but don't try to diminish our pride and optimism. We are used to being the mongrel dog in the fight against the purebreed. Wisconsin expects to recruit the best athletes in the upper Midwest. Montana recruits from a pool downstream from the luxury pool and still we are lucky that quality players sometimes fall through the cracks and take the opportunity that back-water Montana presents. Quality players aren't always the most athletic - our coaches will take the athleticism available and blend in a big dose of heart, character, and pride. Sure, Wisconsin should have the upperhand but don't try to beat us down as undeserving to be on the same court - it won't work. Sometimes the mongrel dog fights a little harder than the show dog.

[wbtfg]

Interesting that 3/4 of the 4 seeds are Big 10 schools (Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin)...the other being Louisville. I think this is a somewhat weak group of #4's, and any of them could go down.

As a bball fan, I would have preferred to see UM/Louisville, as I think the Cherry/Siva matchup would have been awesome to watch. Also, Louisville got hot in the Big East tournament, but before that they didn't have many impressive wins.

That said, I think Wisconsin is probably the most consistent team ouf of the #4's.

[gbhmt]

It's a good matchup for Montana. I've watched Wisconsin all year and while they are very physical, they live through Jordan Taylor. Their offense consists of passing the ball around the perimeter for the first 25-27 seconds of the shot clock and then Jordan penetrates and either goes to the hoop, kicks it out for a three, or finds Berggren down low. Very reliant on the three point shot, and mind-numbingly (albeit deliberately) slow. A team with a good perimeter defense like Montana matches up well with their three-point shooting game and Cherry can definitely handle Taylor after checking a better guard a few times this year (Lillard). If Montana can get out on the fast break, Wisconsin could lose this one. Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

[AllWeatherFan]

It's a good matchup for Montana. I've watched Wisconsin all year and while they are very physical, they live through Jordan Taylor. Their offense consists of passing the ball around the perimeter for the first 25-27 seconds of the shot clock and then Jordan penetrates and either goes to the hoop, kicks it out for a three, or finds Berggren down low. Very reliant on the three point shot, and mind-numbingly (albeit deliberately) slow. A team with a good perimeter defense like Montana matches up well with their three-point shooting game and Cherry can definitely handle Taylor after checking a better guard a few times this year (Lillard). If Montana can get out on the fast break, Wisconsin could lose this one. Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

I predict Wisconsin will modify their usual game plan and will pound it inside against us. I think they'll see an advantage there when they scout us. And of course, if they're having success with that, they'll likely start kicking it back outside to the shooters.

[formerlybis]

Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

I call BS. This is an MSU Spartan fan in disguise. Their fanbase and their midget coach are the main purveyors of the flopping myth, even though their star player flops more than anyone. I would say UW has drawn less than one charge per game this year, so I wouldn't worry about that. And the foul disparity this year is usually in favor of the opponent until the end-game foul-fest to try and extend the game, so we don't get more calls than anyone else does either.

Nice try though.

[PlayerRep]

It's a good matchup for Montana. I've watched Wisconsin all year and while they are very physical, they live through Jordan Taylor. Their offense consists of passing the ball around the perimeter for the first 25-27 seconds of the shot clock and then Jordan penetrates and either goes to the hoop, kicks it out for a three, or finds Berggren down low. Very reliant on the three point shot, and mind-numbingly (albeit deliberately) slow. A team with a good perimeter defense like Montana matches up well with their three-point shooting game and Cherry can definitely handle Taylor after checking a better guard a few times this year (Lillard). If Montana can get out on the fast break, Wisconsin could lose this one. Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

Interesting post. You sound like you know what you're talking about. Keep it coming. Thx.

[gbhmt]

Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

I call BS. This is an MSU Spartan fan in disguise. Their fanbase and their midget coach are the main purveyors of the flopping myth, even though their star player flops more than anyone. I would say UW has drawn less than one charge per game this year, so I wouldn't worry about that. And the foul disparity this year is usually in favor of the opponent until the end-game foul-fest to try and extend the game, so we don't get more calls than anyone else does either.

Nice try though.

Born and raised in Missoula, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Every game I've watched I've been baffled at how outrageous some of the charge attempts have been. It's gotten to the point where announcers point it out and other Big Ten coaches (see the article on either ESPN or Yahoo a couple weeks ago) disrespect Wisconsin because of it. If you could find a stat saying Wisconsin has only taken a charge per game, I'd be tickled. I've seen Wisconsin play in 10-12 games this season and it's always something that's stood out.

[Evizzerate]

I've been watching some games and the flopping is noticable. Almost looks like a coached behavior, part of their scheme the way the Badgers get low and sorta slip under the opponent then ...FLOP.

[gbhmt]

I've been watching some games and the flopping is noticable. Almost looks like a coached behavior, part of their scheme the way the Badgers get low and sorta slip under the opponent then ...FLOP.

Exactly. Definitely coached.

[stubbins]

Typical Badger fan writes:

I just don't see how this is a good matchup for Montana, but what do I know?

"Good matchup" for us doesn't mean we are likely to win, it means "good matchup" compared to what it might have been against some of the power inside teams. After looking at the other three four-seeds this is the best "matchup" the GRIZ could have hoped for. We are still a thirteen seed from an insignificant conference playing a four-seed from the best power conference (this year) in the country. We are underdogs and we accept that fate, but don't try to diminish our pride and optimism. We are used to being the mongrel dog in the fight against the purebreed. Wisconsin expects to recruit the best athletes in the upper Midwest. Montana recruits from a pool downstream from the luxury pool and still we are lucky that quality players sometimes fall through the cracks and take the opportunity that back-water Montana presents. Quality players aren't always the most athletic - our coaches will take the athleticism available and blend in a big dose of heart, character, and pride. Sure, Wisconsin should have the upperhand but don't try to beat us down as undeserving to be on the same court - it won't work. Sometimes the mongrel dog fights a little harder than the show dog.

This is a tough matchup..Indiana or Michigan would've been far better for the Griz. I do like having Wisconsin better than Louisville or Baylor.

If the Griz can guard the 3, which they are good at, and not give up many second chance points, they've got a chance. (So you're saying there's a chance...I got ya. Yeah!)

On offense, Cherry is going to have to break down the defense, which we know he is very capable of doing, and find the cutter or open man at the 3 pt. line. The Griz MUST knock down their open shots, because they aren't going to get a lot of great looks. Also, going to have to have a great offensive game plan, pick and roll and never hitting the roller is not going to work in this one.

I think it's key that Cherry hit a couple threes off of the screens early on, get him some confidence, and then have the ability to either hit it, or drive right by.

defensive boards, boards and more boards....

[CloudsOfDust]

Here's Dan Dakich on the Seth Davis article where a coach accuses Wisconsin of flopping and mugging:

"There is a dumbass assistant coach somewhere opening up his mouth, I mean if you want to know the truth," Dakich said. "Because anyone who has ever been a head coach and take what Bo Ryan does every single moment of every single minute of every single day – when you are an assistant coach you think you know everything. So you open your mouth. So my comment is, who cares what some dumbass assistant coach cares about Wisconsin’s style of play? The dude’s won more games than that guy will ever think about winning. Whoever that guy is."

"But in terms of cheating the game, are you crazy?" Dakich said. "Bo Ryan does the exact opposite. Watch a warm-up. They pass, they catch, they work on skill. That’s not cheating the game. They guard you. That’s not cheating the game. They don’t grab people. I’ve been to a million of their games. They don’t grab people. I don’t walk away from a Wisconsin game saying, ‘Dang did they just mug their opponent?’ I’ve done a million games and I promise you this. I promise you that whatever assistant coach was stupid enough to say that, I promise you – I’m not even in the league, but I’ve watched more of Wisconsin than that guy does – and what he said about them is complete crap. Is that strong enough for you?"

[PlayerRep]

I find it amusing that some Wisconsin fans are so sensitive to comments about Wisconsin and that there are seemingly such a large amount of dissing of Wisconsin that occurs in by pundits and internet columnists. I wonder why do so many people in the media lack confidence in Wisconsin?

[jcu27]

Don't most fans of teams get sensitive when their team is put in a bad light?

[formerlybis]

Also, a centerpiece of Wisconsin's defense is flopping on anything even close to contact and attempting to draw charges. If the refs don't buy it, they're toast. I've seen it happen before, and they shouldn't get as many calls away from Big Ten play.

I call BS. This is an MSU Spartan fan in disguise. Their fanbase and their midget coach are the main purveyors of the flopping myth, even though their star player flops more than anyone. I would say UW has drawn less than one charge per game this year, so I wouldn't worry about that. And the foul disparity this year is usually in favor of the opponent until the end-game foul-fest to try and extend the game, so we don't get more calls than anyone else does either.

Nice try though.

Born and raised in Missoula, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Every game I've watched I've been baffled at how outrageous some of the charge attempts have been. It's gotten to the point where announcers point it out and other Big Ten coaches (see the article on either ESPN or Yahoo a couple weeks ago) disrespect Wisconsin because of it. If you could find a stat saying Wisconsin has only taken a charge per game, I'd be tickled. I've seen Wisconsin play in 10-12 games this season and it's always something that's stood out.

http://247sports.com/User/Detail/20853

Caught ya -- here's a frequent poster on the MSU Spartan message board who coincidentally has the same user name. Huh. Imagine that.

[EverettGriz]

An interesting take on the game from our BSC bretheren:

http://www.bigskyfans.com/wildcats/view ... f=2&t=3136

[CloudsOfDust]

Every year we get picked as a trendy 1st round upset. And every year we win in the 1st round.

Just gets old.

[votb]

I wonder if any of the Badger posters are actually Wisconsin coaches trying to get insight into the Griz.

This one I REALLY get a kick out of. If you understand the amazing technology now available to coaching staffs through subscription services used by most schools, you'd know they can get video (already broken down) of every player on your opponents roster...in almost every kind of situation. The software is amazing, and these companies literally hire people to go through game tapes and create the individual player video. You can look at any opponent player on offense/defense/free-throws,etc. Trust me...Wisconsin's coaches are NOT reading this board to scout the Griz.

[wbtfg]

I wonder if any of the Badger posters are actually Wisconsin coaches trying to get insight into the Griz.

This one I REALLY get a kick out of. If you understand the amazing technology now available to coaching staffs through subscription services used by most schools, you'd know they can get video (already broken down) of every player on your opponents roster...in almost every kind of situation. The software is amazing, and these companies literally hire people to go through game tapes and create the individual player video. You can look at any opponent player on offense/defense/free-throws,etc. Trust me...Wisconsin's coaches are NOT reading this board to scout the Griz.

Do you really think they can get better insight on digital cut ups than can on egriz? That's laughable...of course they're reading egriz.

Just like I'm sure Wayne Tinkle and staff are perusing the Wisconsin message boards.

[votb]

Yes...that's exactly what Wayne and the staff are spending their time doing. I love it!

[Bigdsrip]

UW plays defense with their lower bodies. Thats why it seems like guys are "flopping" all the time. Its called position defense. We don't have high flyers who can get up and block a ton of shots so we get in front of our guy and deny them driving lanes and very rarely leave our feet. Most college players these days don't know what to do when somebody does that, so they try to go right through them, thus charges. If thats flopping to you, ok, but I'll take our 13 straight tourney appearances and 11 straight years of finishing no worse then 4th in our conference.

I think a lot of the hate on UW is that teams that have the kind of success that we have had over the last 15 years or so, aren't supposed to look and play the way we do. When you combine that with the fact that for the 50 years before Stu Jackson got here in 92 we were one of the worst programs in the country. Before 1994 we had been to the tourney twice. 1941 (champs!! all right!) and 1947. We went in 94, 97, missed 98 and then we have been back every year since 99. That is quite a turnaround and its taken a lot of analysts a while to come to grips with the fact that UW is a legit program now. The fact that we have done it almost exclusively with kids from Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and Illinois and very few of them are NBA guys, adds to the perception that UW gets lucky, or has to have help from the refs in order to be successful.

The fact that we don't have a bunch of high flyers also leads to the reoccurring thought that we are an easy out in the tourney, ignoring all of the many factors that prove just the opposite. We have to play focused to win every game so mid-majors aren't going to catch us taking them lightly. We play tough help defense and don't allow teams to run or change the tempo of the game so you have to beat us at our own game. Most mids don't have the horses to do that, but ESPN/CBS likes to promote drama, and if you are just a casual observer, UW is an easy target for an upset because we don't play 'sexy'.

And I get that you are saying that UW is a good matchup is relative. I just think you are wrong. In my opinion UW is one of the worst match ups for Montana in the 3-4-5 seed range. We play extremely disciplined basketball. That makes it tough for less talented teams to close the gap, as compared to a team like IU or Louisville that can get out of control at times if you push the tempo. As a team that inverts its bigs, we know how many problems that can pose to teams that aren't used to it. But we are used to it, plus we have the personal advantage at that spot. Berggren is a borderline NBA guy who has taken it to both Zeller brothers, Jered Sullinger, and numerous other quality bigs and has won most of those match-ups. Your best player is your point guard who gets a ton of steals. Our point guard is an All-American who is going to set the NCAA record for career assist-to-turnover ratio, and our team as a whole has been in the top ten for fewest turnovers for Bo's whole career. You have a bunch of guys that shoot the 3 ball well, while we are near the top for 3 point % allowed. Plus the supposed advantage of having a former player on your coaching staff is moot. Everything he can tell you is available right here for $39.99; http://www.hoopsking.com/boryan.html

We have been susceptible to guards that drive the lane at times this year so you might catch a break there, but even then you have to play your A+ game to beat us (see Iowa). Could Montana win? Oh no doubt. Its not unheard of for us to go for 8 min scoreless stretches and if you get hot at the same time (which only MSU has managed to do this year) we could be in trouble. But we have been playing very well recently, despite what ESPN would have you believe, and I don't see Taylor allowing us to lose in the first round his senior year.

[Brock Landers]

I find it amusing that some Wisconsin fans are so sensitive to comments about Wisconsin and that there are seemingly such a large amount of dissing of Wisconsin that occurs in by pundits and internet columnists. I wonder why do so many people in the media lack confidence in Wisconsin?

It was the same with the Tennessee board last year. Everyone in sports is always pissed when they're not being "respected" by whoever. The douches over here would do the same thing if a DII fanbase showed any pride when talking with us

[formerlybis]

I disagree with bigdsrip on one thing -- the Badgers actually do block a fair number of shots, most notably when the bigs (mostly Berggren and Evans) provide help D after a guard/wing penetrates. The blocked shot is not a huge part of the defensive game plan, but it's not non-existent by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bigdsrip]

You're right. We have been blocking more shots recently but its usually the help defender that goes for the block. I was thinking in terms of drawing charges/"flopping". Although Berggren this year will challenge you straight up from time to time.

[Cujo]

I don't think Wisconsin is "flopping" when they take the falls. It's a solid defensive plan and if the offense is too aggressive on the Badger players they will pay for it.