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Reality--What a Concept!

C

citygriz

Well-known member
Reality One: Teams and players, even great teams and star players, have slumps--shooting slumps, hitting slumps, mental slumps. Our kids have endured wicked travel, constant constant intensity on defense, and a huge target on their backs all season, not to mention the need to hit the books. To me, Akoh seems particularly tired. All the talk on the board of "running the table," "streaks," "historical records," "high seed at the Big Dance"--it just doesn't square with the reality that at some point our kids were going to hit a slump. Is this it? I hope so! I've been castigated for "rooting for a loss," and while I never root against my own team, I was trying to remind everybody that all regular season records will seem hollow if we don't win two key games in Reno. If we have a slump, better now than in Reno.

Reality Two: We do not have a single great pure shooter. Rorie is a good shooter; Oguine a much-improved shooter; Moorehead a streaky shooter. Bevens was supposed to be that guy but is not. We are versatile, quick, athletic; we play terrific defense. But for all that, we will be at the mercy of teams who can shoot the ball consistently well, and against a pure shooter who just has an incredibly hot night, as the kid from Weber did against us in the championship game two years ago. As we play against Idaho, Eastern Washington and Weber--and beyond if we win the tournament--we will increasingly be playing teams with great shooters. So be it.
 
citay said:
Reality One: Teams and players, even great teams and star players, have slumps--shooting slumps, hitting slumps, mental slumps. Our kids have endured wicked travel, constant constant intensity on defense, and a huge target on their backs all season, not to mention the need to hit the books. To me, Akoh seems particularly tired. All the talk on the board of "running the table," "streaks," "historical records," "high seed at the Big Dance"--it just doesn't square with the reality that at some point our kids were going to hit a slump. Is this it? I hope so! I've been castigated for "rooting for a loss," and while I never root against my own team, I was trying to remind everybody that all regular season records will seem hollow if we don't win two key games in Reno. If we have a slump, better now than in Reno.

Reality Two: We do not have a single great pure shooter. Rorie is a good shooter; Oguine a much-improved shooter; Moorehead a streaky shooter. Bevens was supposed to be that guy but is not. We are versatile, quick, athletic; we play terrific defense. But for all that, we will be at the mercy of teams who can shoot the ball consistently well, and against a pure shooter who just has an incredibly hot night, as the kid from Weber did against us in the championship game two years ago. As we play against Idaho, Eastern Washington and Weber--and beyond if we win the tournament--we will increasingly be playing teams with great shooters. So be it.
Click to expand...

But you should be happy! You've wanted us to have a loss! :)
 
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
 
grizonbob said:
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
Click to expand...
 
grizonbob said:
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
Click to expand...

He has played in enough games that redshirt is not an option. He did play last night. My closest source says he cannot play D.
 
maroonandsilver said:
grizonbob said:
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
Click to expand...

He has played in enough games that redshirt is not an option. He did play last night. My closest source says he cannot play D.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that would explain it.... too bad they didn't figure that out before they brought him to Missoula

Of course, defense is something you can do something about if you want to work hard enough
 
maroonandsilver said:
grizonbob said:
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
Click to expand...

He has played in enough games that redshirt is not an option. He did play last night. My closest source says he cannot play D.
Click to expand...
If an accurate assessment, then that pretty much explains everything. On this team, if you cannot (will not?) play D ... you don't play (much, anyway).
 
grizonbob said:
I don't know the inner dynamics of the team. I know Bevens was supposed to be the guy who provided a great outside shooting threat. But he's hardly played at all this year. Not even at the end of games when others who get few minutes are in playing.

Is he in the dog house, or not performing up to expectations? Or is he not being played because he could be red shirted?
Click to expand...

He was going to be put in the game last night towards the end when they had the mix up after the held ball and EWU got the ball he didn't get in.
 
In other words, Bevens won't be back next year unless he somehow dedicates himself to playing tough D.

Guess it could happen. Moorehead certainly turned himself into a top defender after he realized his playing time would dwindle unless he dedicated himself to improving his defensive skills...
 
Good post. It is just one game. We can see how the team fights through adversity and maintains some good level of confidence in each other.

citay said:
Reality One: All the talk on the board of "running the table," "streaks," "historical records," "high seed at the Big Dance"--it just doesn't square with the reality that at some point our kids were going to hit a slump.
Click to expand...
 
Great comments regarding our shooting struggles and lack of playing time for Bevens.

With the NCAA Tournament decisive conference tournament approaching, DeCuire has to work some magic. As painful as it is, this team absolutely has to figure out how to consistently hit 3's!! I've been questioning it all season. The GRIZ have proven they are capable of hitting 3's at a high %, but only if they don't have to rely on them. Sac and EWU really were the 1st teams that stuck with packing in the paint. They forced the GRIZ into using their weakness (the 3 point shot). The GRIZ were fortunate to beat Sac State (thanks to great defensive plays in clutch moments).

Either the GRIZ get back to quick ball movement and Rorie, Oguine, Falls, and Pridgett looking to penetrate to create for themselves, others, and draw fouls, or put some faith in the players capable of hitting 3's consistently. Clutch and desperation time are approaching. As a 1 bid conference, every coach in the conference has to do all they can to explore everything possible. If need be, figure out a way to utilize Bevens. His best skill happens to be the team's only true weakness. At this stage, I am guessing his lack of PT is from inconsistent Defense, and struggling to grasp various team strategies. Usually a sign that a player will not be returning. Regardless of reasons, maybe it will take DeCuire getting creative in finding ways to utilize his shooting. If as a coach I were forced into this situation, I'd make it clear to the team that Bevens primary responsibility is to shoot!!! If that means more help defensive concepts, or even assigning him to just a limited zone, or defending the worse perimeter player, or offensive/defensive substituting, so be it! Fact is, the offense is struggling because of inconsistent perimeter shooting. Rather it be getting back to the basics, or utilizing Bevens, Decuire has to take some chances. If that means creating 7 to 10 minutes to experiment with Bevens or various strategies, so be it. It would be a shame for this kind of team to not complete the season the way it should, just because of 1 major weakness. As a group, this team has worked way too hard to fall short of the NCAA tournament, and possible 13 or 14 seed upset of a 3 or 4 seeded team. Keep in mind, this has been weakness the majority of DeCuire's tenure here.

It really does make me wonder, why has this been a weakness for so long under DeCuire? It is actually hard for me to believe, this has been a weakness so often. DeCuire is a terrific coach and intelligent. It could be the only thing that keeps him from landing a mid level, or better, Power 5 job. A thorough AD and/or search committee will be questioning each candidates weaknesses. How would he answer up to something like this? Coach Decuire, you've proven to be a great recruiter, great developer of talent, great defensive mind, great with academic expectations, and most everything else that is expected of a head coach. However, can you provide some insight as to why your teams have consistently struggled with perimeter shooting, which led to falling short of the NCAA tournament, or early round uncompetitive losses in the NCAA tournament (depending on when this happens)?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love DeCuire as a coach, and love supporting his teams. Unfortunately, at some stage perimeter shooting struggles will have to be addressed. Keep in mind, the AD's, fans, boosters, donors, and those involved in decision making are every bit as critical of coaches as the coaches are of their players. I hope and pray the GRIZ can figure it all out, and be dancing in the NCAA tournament.
 
I have always thought that a outside shooter was born that way. Look at all the great shooters around the league and they all work to keep the edge but they have "it".

I feel that we have lost that up-tempo feeling. Need to get that back.
 
mtgrizrule said:
Great comments regarding our shooting struggles and lack of playing time for Bevens.

With the NCAA Tournament decisive conference tournament approaching, DeCuire has to work some magic. As painful as it is, this team absolutely has to figure out how to consistently hit 3's!! I've been questioning it all season. The GRIZ have proven they are capable of hitting 3's at a high %, but only if they don't have to rely on them. Sac and EWU really were the 1st teams that stuck with packing in the paint. They forced the GRIZ into using their weakness (the 3 point shot). The GRIZ were fortunate to beat Sac State (thanks to great defensive plays in clutch moments).

Either the GRIZ get back to quick ball movement and Rorie, Oguine, Falls, and Pridgett looking to penetrate to create for themselves, others, and draw fouls, or put some faith in the players capable of hitting 3's consistently. Clutch and desperation time are approaching. As a 1 bid conference, every coach in the conference has to do all they can to explore everything possible. If need be, figure out a way to utilize Bevens. His best skill happens to be the team's only true weakness. At this stage, I am guessing his lack of PT is from inconsistent Defense, and struggling to grasp various team strategies. Usually a sign that a player will not be returning. Regardless of reasons, maybe it will take DeCuire getting creative in finding ways to utilize his shooting. If as a coach I were forced into this situation, I'd make it clear to the team that Bevens primary responsibility is to shoot!!! If that means more help defensive concepts, or even assigning him to just a limited zone, or defending the worse perimeter player, or offensive/defensive substituting, so be it! Fact is, the offense is struggling because of inconsistent perimeter shooting. Rather it be getting back to the basics, or utilizing Bevens, Decuire has to take some chances. If that means creating 7 to 10 minutes to experiment with Bevens or various strategies, so be it. It would be a shame for this kind of team to not complete the season the way it should, just because of 1 major weakness. As a group, this team has worked way too hard to fall short of the NCAA tournament, and possible 13 or 14 seed upset of a 3 or 4 seeded team. Keep in mind, this has been weakness the majority of DeCuire's tenure here.

It really does make me wonder, why has this been a weakness for so long under DeCuire? It is actually hard for me to believe, this has been a weakness so often. DeCuire is a terrific coach and intelligent. It could be the only thing that keeps him from landing a mid level, or better, Power 5 job. A thorough AD and/or search committee will be questioning each candidates weaknesses. How would he answer up to something like this? Coach Decuire, you've proven to be a great recruiter, great developer of talent, great defensive mind, great with academic expectations, and most everything else that is expected of a head coach. However, can you provide some insight as to why your teams have consistently struggled with perimeter shooting, which led to falling short of the NCAA tournament, or early round uncompetitive losses in the NCAA tournament (depending on when this happens)?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love DeCuire as a coach, and love supporting his teams. Unfortunately, at some stage perimeter shooting struggles will have to be addressed. Keep in mind, the AD's, fans, boosters, donors, and those involved in decision making are every bit as critical of coaches as the coaches are of their players. I hope and pray the GRIZ can figure it all out, and be dancing in the NCAA tournament.
Click to expand...

I disagree with much of what you said. The Griz made more than their usual numbers of long shots. But, what stood out to me, and unusual for this team, was a lack of rebounds. EWU beat the Griz more often than not because Akoh was playing more to outside leaving Kriscovic and now and then, Oguine to rebound, if they were not racing back on D. A similar test will be Saturday at Idaho who can really shoot from outside and in the paint. The strength of UM on offense is attacking the basket and getting fouls. They did not do much of that last night. It is interesting though, that not one team in the Big Sky has won both games on the EWU and Idaho trip. So, hopefully, UM can do what they do best in Moscow.
 
It seems that for the most part he has put more emphasis on defensive want to over offensive shooting ability when recruiting.
 
GrizLA said:
mtgrizrule said:
Great comments regarding our shooting struggles and lack of playing time for Bevens.

With the NCAA Tournament decisive conference tournament approaching, DeCuire has to work some magic. As painful as it is, this team absolutely has to figure out how to consistently hit 3's!! I've been questioning it all season. The GRIZ have proven they are capable of hitting 3's at a high %, but only if they don't have to rely on them. Sac and EWU really were the 1st teams that stuck with packing in the paint. They forced the GRIZ into using their weakness (the 3 point shot). The GRIZ were fortunate to beat Sac State (thanks to great defensive plays in clutch moments).

Either the GRIZ get back to quick ball movement and Rorie, Oguine, Falls, and Pridgett looking to penetrate to create for themselves, others, and draw fouls, or put some faith in the players capable of hitting 3's consistently. Clutch and desperation time are approaching. As a 1 bid conference, every coach in the conference has to do all they can to explore everything possible. If need be, figure out a way to utilize Bevens. His best skill happens to be the team's only true weakness. At this stage, I am guessing his lack of PT is from inconsistent Defense, and struggling to grasp various team strategies. Usually a sign that a player will not be returning. Regardless of reasons, maybe it will take DeCuire getting creative in finding ways to utilize his shooting. If as a coach I were forced into this situation, I'd make it clear to the team that Bevens primary responsibility is to shoot!!! If that means more help defensive concepts, or even assigning him to just a limited zone, or defending the worse perimeter player, or offensive/defensive substituting, so be it! Fact is, the offense is struggling because of inconsistent perimeter shooting. Rather it be getting back to the basics, or utilizing Bevens, Decuire has to take some chances. If that means creating 7 to 10 minutes to experiment with Bevens or various strategies, so be it. It would be a shame for this kind of team to not complete the season the way it should, just because of 1 major weakness. As a group, this team has worked way too hard to fall short of the NCAA tournament, and possible 13 or 14 seed upset of a 3 or 4 seeded team. Keep in mind, this has been weakness the majority of DeCuire's tenure here.

It really does make me wonder, why has this been a weakness for so long under DeCuire? It is actually hard for me to believe, this has been a weakness so often. DeCuire is a terrific coach and intelligent. It could be the only thing that keeps him from landing a mid level, or better, Power 5 job. A thorough AD and/or search committee will be questioning each candidates weaknesses. How would he answer up to something like this? Coach Decuire, you've proven to be a great recruiter, great developer of talent, great defensive mind, great with academic expectations, and most everything else that is expected of a head coach. However, can you provide some insight as to why your teams have consistently struggled with perimeter shooting, which led to falling short of the NCAA tournament, or early round uncompetitive losses in the NCAA tournament (depending on when this happens)?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love DeCuire as a coach, and love supporting his teams. Unfortunately, at some stage perimeter shooting struggles will have to be addressed. Keep in mind, the AD's, fans, boosters, donors, and those involved in decision making are every bit as critical of coaches as the coaches are of their players. I hope and pray the GRIZ can figure it all out, and be dancing in the NCAA tournament.
Click to expand...

I disagree with much of what you said. The Griz made more than their usual numbers of long shots. But, what stood out to me, and unusual for this team, was a lack of rebounds. EWU beat the Griz more often than not because Akoh was playing more to outside leaving Kriscovic and now and then, Oguine to rebound, if they were not racing back on D. A similar test will be Saturday at Idaho who can really shoot from outside and in the paint. The strength of UM on offense is attacking the basket and getting fouls. They did not do much of that last night. It is interesting though, that not one team in the Big Sky has won both games on the EWU and Idaho trip. So, hopefully, UM can do what they do best in Moscow.
Click to expand...


The main reason for fewer offensive rebounds, our opponents are packing it in. That also limits our best rebounders in a true #'s game to get that ball. Better outside shooting increases our offensive rebounding chances on misses, and creates more room inside to work. It goes hand in hand.
 
Not hard to tire guys out in an 8 man rotation. I don't believe they will beat Idaho Saturday, but the Griz will be right in the thick of it in Reno.
 
Very good post, although I can't justify rooting for a loss because its so important to stay off the 15 16 seed line for a team like the Griz if they want any chance in the dance, but I think people do need a reality check. This team is good but not really that much above rest of the bigsky because we can't shoot. I was really disjointed at the beginning of the year after watching UCSB loss and thought our shooting was going to be so bad that it would make the whole year go to waist, but as it turns out this team puts out a consistently good product and being consistently solid in bigsky is going to win a lot of games because teams are so up and down ala PSU. But really this team can't shoot and they lack size (Akoh and Kriz solid but don't play above the rim and can't shoot over people that are bigger than them) if we could add 6'9' at least who can jump and a shooter next year, then this team would be head an shoulders above and special. if you change Moorhead's 0-6(wide open) out for a shooter you can count on for 2-6 and add a post player who might block 1 shot and grab one more board and put back...........that a team that's 12pts better all of a sudden, and a Griz team like that would really be head an shoulders above, and its not that far away, but its not this year. It just sucks because they putting together a such a good season, yet as you put it so well "they will always be AT THE MERCY of a team that can shoot" and you wish you didn't have to hope for the other team to miss. That being said knew Eastern would have some smooth shooters who would bury wide open threes like they did last night, but I thought we would easily out physicial them and be able to push them around enough to win, but Ogi didn't drive once and rebounding sucked so I think on top of our poor shooting we also played lame last night.
 
Also we don't even need a great pure shooter. I don't believe there is anybody on this team that if the just did a shoot around the arc could make 18/20 or 12 in a row...maybe moorhead because his shot actually has a shooters arc but otherwise the shooting strokes of all these guys makes every 3 wide open or contested pretty much a toss up.
 
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