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Trouble in moosoula

doc3kgt

Well-known member
Can't wait to hear the bullshit spin job umgriz75 puts on this one.. :roll:

http://m.billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/um-faculty-senate-presses-engstrom-on-budget-cuts-solutions/article_78c18626-3e3a-5ef7-a91d-68a4db39be6a.html
 
doc3kgt said:
Can't wait to hear the bullshit spin job umgriz75 puts on this one.. :roll:

http://m.billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/um-faculty-senate-presses-engstrom-on-budget-cuts-solutions/article_78c18626-3e3a-5ef7-a91d-68a4db39be6a.html

I love this time of year! The Griz are getting ready for another run at the playoffs. The cats have turned in their equipment and gone home for the holidays. And the trolls still haven't figured out their season is over! Its the best time of the year.
 
These kind of cuts never seem to include administrators do they?

Even Egriz has had numerous threads over the years about the lack of UM presence at all kinds of events and festivals. E.g., every other regional institution has a booth at Hoopfest in Spokane. Several hundred thousand young people are there. It may not be much of a factor but the lack of recruiting effort is apparent. Even the spring home and garden shows have MSU and Tech booths. A friend had a daughter come in for a recruiting visit and was very unimpressed by the skimpy campus orientation and tour effort. MSU high school football camp includes all frontier conference coaching staffs. UM does their camp on the same week as Griz cage camp so no two sport athletes can attend both. We all see MSU ads during the telecast of Griz games, but very few UM ads. These are little things but to me it all adds up to fewer kids feeling invited to consider UM.

It's not all about the degree and job training. "As they say MSU grads know how to do something, UM grads know why" Undergrads are undergrads. Most of the Montana schools are duplicative at that level. Frankly I think it's the attitude that is projected too. Montana Tech and MSU have this "get er done" institutional images, while UM has a rep (based on only one department) as the activist school churning out protesters and obstructionists. UM has not done a good job of marketing. Here in Butte there was a nice billboard campaign (gone now) and an occasional Griz-related event but on the whole you hear nothing about UM in terms of what it can offer in terms of education.
 
At some point, the UM Foundation is going to have to recognize that investing in academics adds to long term stability. While your athletic facilities are primed for greatness, they aren't helping your declining enrollment issues. You need to invest in the programs that offer the best opportunity to get a great return on investment like pharmacy, physical therapy, and other such degrees. Liberal arts degrees aren't very appealing considering the ROA is atrocious
 
LongTimeCatFan said:
At some point, the UM Foundation is going to have to recognize that investing in academics adds to long term stability. While your athletic facilities are primed for greatness, they aren't helping your declining enrollment issues. You need to invest in the programs that offer the best opportunity to get a great return on investment like pharmacy, physical therapy, and other such degrees. Liberal arts degrees aren't very appealing considering the ROA is atrocious


While I agree UM had to do a better job of promoting its top ranked programs, you do realize that nearly every "liberal arts" degree offered at UM is also offered at MSU,and the percentages of students majoring in them are virtually identical?
 
EverettGriz said:
LongTimeCatFan said:
At some point, the UM Foundation is going to have to recognize that investing in academics adds to long term stability. While your athletic facilities are primed for greatness, they aren't helping your declining enrollment issues. You need to invest in the programs that offer the best opportunity to get a great return on investment like pharmacy, physical therapy, and other such degrees. Liberal arts degrees aren't very appealing considering the ROA is atrocious


While I agree UM had to do a better job of promoting its top ranked programs, you do realize that nearly every "liberal arts" degree offered at UM is also offered at MSU,and the percentages of students majoring in them are virtually identical?


I didn't, but it seems we agree that those programs aren't driving enrollment, which is my point.
 
Yes, on that we agree. But those things tend to be cyclical, just like enrollment numbers. If petro stays at $40 a barrel, engineering will take its lumps. I can almost guarantee that in five years, we'll be having this same discussion on bcn when UM's enrollment is climbing and Msu's falling.
 
EverettGriz said:
Yes, on that we agree. But those things tend to be cyclical, just like enrollment numbers. If petro stays at $40 a barrel, engineering will take its lumps. I can almost guarantee that in five years, we'll be having this same discussion on bcn when UM's enrollment is climbing and Msu's falling.

I don't follow. If a kid wants into the petro field, he/she is going to Butte not Bozeman.
 
Ha!! See, this is precisely why we need "liberal arts" programs like economics.

The price of oil doesn't just influence those interested in oil and gas jobs. It influences the entire economy. Low oil prices can lead to inflationary pressures. That leads to higher interest rates. Higher interest rates lead to higher bond prices. Higher bonding costs lead to fewer construction projects. Fewer construction projects lead to the need for fewer engineers. Fewer engineers needed leads to fewer engineering jobs. Fewer engineering jobs lead to fewer people entering that field. Fewer people entering that field lead to fewer people entering MSU to study it.

And that's a 100 level liberal arts Econ discussion.
 
Enrollment is in decline, and therefore is creating some serious budget issues at UM. No argument there. It doesn't mean the educational value of UM has declined whatsoever. Yes, any rationale Griz fan should be willing ot admit, for some very good fields of study, MSU is an outstanding educational institution. Why that's ever even up for smack is kind of stupid to me. Here's what I find pretty laughable about the two school's as it relates to football and academics. In all of the Ash discussions on BN, I saw a pretty long post about how MSU will never out-do UM on the football field because of the type of student-athletes MSU is not allowed to recruit. That is just so far off base it's not even funny. Here's a breakdown of the 2015 MSU football team. Exactly SEVEN players of a 99-man roster are majoring in engineering. And two of those are majoring in civil engineering, which is a degree that can also be obtained at Montana State University-Northern, Great Falls and MSU-Billings. On the other side, 59 players, including 17 upper classmen are majoring in University Studies, in other words, undecided. There are also 19 players on MSU's roster majoring in business, sociology or education, all degrees that can also be obtained at UM.

So, while I have no argument that Montana State is an incredible educational opportunity, while UM has slid back some in recent years, as it relates to football, it still looks like the staus quo to me. MSU isn't "recruiting" a different type of student-athlete (football player" than Montana is. And in fact, there are currently 16 players in state and out, that I could find, that have scholarship offers from both MSU and UM.
 
Yeah there are a lot of uninformed people. Back when I uses to post on that board, they were adamant that the admission requirements were much higher to get into MSU than UM. When I proved tat they were identical, they stated that the requirements to graduate were higher at MSU. When I showed that they were actually more difficult at UM due to the foreign language requirement, they called me names.
 
Not only oil prices....All commodity prices are down at this point! Yes that will impact msu more than um. Gold, silver, grains to name a few. Some change in schools will begin to show up in the next few years.
 
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