Well Griz it appears MWC may be going very big

[WaGriz4life]

The rest of the FCS is catching up to us or passing us in spending. Unless we change our model to bring in more funds (not on the back of the ticket holder), I think we will start a definite decline.

I totally agree with you on this issue. And, sadly, the decline may well be what lies ahead. What would you suggest for bringing in more funds? The industries to pony up big money simply don't exist here.

I just have never been able to understand O'Day when he talks about how the athletic department barely breaks even every year and how it is such a struggle and a grind just to have the funds to break even. Then you look at other Big Sky schools that are also barely breaking even and they have zero football revenue. Doesn't make sense considering he also says we make $500,000 roughly on a home game. Doesn't make sense. I refuse to believe that UM's expenses are millions of dollars more than the other Big Sky schools.

[griz4life]

Yes, I'm one of the naysayers -- and that's because Missoula does not/never has/never will have the money that exists in the Boise area. And, without that, nothing good is going to come of "moving up."

I know this post isn't the first to suggest that somehow the state university's ability to fund full scholarship Division I football is somehow tied to how much money Missoula has, but it still just cracks me up. Do people really think the financial health of the University of Montana depends on Missoula's economy? Missoula left to its own devices would struggle to support a community college. Hell, Missoula couldn't even sell out a football game all on its own.
God help us if the state's largest university ever has to turn to Hoagieville or the Southgate Mall for serious dough.

[PlayerRep]

we don't need more funds (esp to stay atop the BSC); rather, we need to better manage the funds we currently receive.

How so? I'm curious as to what you think?

[PlayerRep]

Yes, I'm one of the naysayers -- and that's because Missoula does not/never has/never will have the money that exists in the Boise area. And, without that, nothing good is going to come of "moving up."

I know this post isn't the first to suggest that somehow the state university's ability to fund full scholarship Division I football is somehow tied to how much money Missoula has, but it still just cracks me up. Do people really think the financial health of the University of Montana depends on Missoula's economy? Missoula left to its own devices would struggle to support a community college. Hell, Missoula couldn't even sell out a football game all on its own.
God help us if the state's largest university ever has to turn to Hoagieville or the Southgate Mall for serious dough.

Have you ever looked at what businesses make the donations to UM athletics? So, what businesses in or out of western Montana do you think would donate big bucks to UM athletics?

[Spanky]

Player....As a business attorney, you are well aware that there are successful business owners located throughout our state that will donate. In fact, more than likely many more than the Missoula area. Missoula can't compare to Billings in diverse business ownership and I can tell you, the majority are Griz.

[garizzalies]

we don't need more funds (esp to stay atop the BSC); rather, we need to better manage the funds we currently receive.

How so? I'm curious as to what you think?

we could have the best facilities in the BSC if we put most of the football revenue back into the football program instead of siphoning that dough to support other programs and bilking the football fans for the upgrades. In a sense, the football fans' donations (or gameday monies) are not going to the football program (at least not 100%); they are indirectly going to other programs/facilities which is likely contrary to the donator's wishes (e.g., Engstrom: lets move this football revenue into this column and replace the void with donations from football fans). I realize this is not entirely accurate; I am purposely exaggerating to prove a point, but it does have some truth.

[PlayerRep]

Player....As a business attorney, you are well aware that there are successful business owners located throughout our state that will donate. In fact, more than likely many more than the Missoula area. Missoula can't compare to Billings in diverse business ownership and I can tell you, the majority are Griz.

Actually, as a business attorney who knows many of the largest businesses in the state, I think the opposite. I am aware of very few that I think would donate anything of significance. I have recently represented multiple companies in selling out for an aggregate of well over $1.5 Billion. Several hundred million of that amount went to people in Montana. I can't think of a single shareholder of those companies who would be likely to donate anything of significance to UM athletics.

[PlayerRep]

we don't need more funds (esp to stay atop the BSC); rather, we need to better manage the funds we currently receive.

How so? I'm curious as to what you think?

we could have the best facilities in the BSC if we put most of the football revenue back into the football program instead of siphoning that dough to support other programs and bilking the football fans for the upgrades. In a sense, the football fans' donations (or gameday monies) are not going to the football program (at least not 100%); they are indirectly going to other programs/facilities which is likely contrary to the donator's wishes (e.g., Engstrom: lets move this football revenue into this column and replace the void with donations from football fans). I realize this is not entirely accurate; I am purposely exaggerating to prove a point, but it does have some truth.

I agree with your general facts. However, I don't believe anything of significance will ever get shifted back to football or the athletic department.

[Tokyogriz]

The rest of the FCS is catching up to us or passing us in spending. Unless we change our model to bring in more funds (not on the back of the ticket holder), I think we will start a definite decline.

I totally agree with you on this issue. And, sadly, the decline may well be what lies ahead. What would you suggest for bringing in more funds? The industries to pony up big money simply don't exist here.

I just have never been able to understand O'Day when he talks about how the athletic department barely breaks even every year and how it is such a struggle and a grind just to have the funds to break even. Then you look at other Big Sky schools that are also barely breaking even and they have zero football revenue. Doesn't make sense considering he also says we make $500,000 roughly on a home game. Doesn't make sense. I refuse to believe that UM's expenses are millions of dollars more than the other Big Sky schools.

Its my understanding most if not all of the UM Football money gets moved out of the football program to fund the rest of athletics and a good chunk of acadmics.

The point of the Univeristy is academics so Im not against helping out that side. But the fact is UM is sucking the life outta the gravy train known as the griz football program. UM football PAYS RENT on all the facilities to the school itself. WTF?

No other schools to my knowledge in BSC pay RENT for the stadium and any other facilities. MSU sure as hell doesnt pay rent, they suck 4 million extra in state money to fund their football program and dont give shit back in $$ to the MSU campus. Add on top of that MSU students pay DOUBLE athletic fee compared to UM students lol.

For those of you with your heads in the sand or your hinds the gravy train me be coming to an end. Not fiction but actual possiblity. Having the CAA, App state and the other real money schools leaving for greener pastures does matter and pretending it doesnt it flat stupid. Play offs are MONEY LOSERS even if fun to watch. UM will get stuck with this tab more and more in the future. What the hell will the FCS do when Montana doesnt get into the playoffs? 500-2000 fans a game is VERY COMMON from 95% of the current FCS schools, and the 5% that do have actual fan bases are leaving FCS.

[EverettGriz]

I'll preface my comments with a disclaimer; I'm not necessarily a move-up hawk. Frankly, if the FCS were to continue to be viable and competetive I'd support staying. My fear is that it soon won't be, and by then the "up" elevator will be long gone.

To address a few issues:

Playoffs: I love them. I'd miss them. But whenever I ask someone who claims UM shouldn't move up because of the playoffs, I ask them if they'd be willing to move down to D2 if the FCS discontinued playoffs. Invariably the answer is "No". So it seems to me that there's a relative value to playoffs, rather than an absolute value. Finding that precise value will be important (unless FBS institutes a playoff, which I think is inevitable) when considering a move.

Money: Yes, expenses would increase with a move. But what continually gets ignored is the top-line revenue piece. People want to focus on football; but in reality, the best opportunity for Montana to increase their revenue -- potentially by millions every year -- is in baskteball. Most mid-major FBS conference teams don't support their programs with football dollars. They do it with NCAA BB tournament dollars, which can be enormous. A conference with 3 or 4 NCAA bids a year could be worth substantial dollars.

Population: Never really understood this argument. Universities in less-populated areas sometimes flourish; universities in densely populated areas sometime struggle. I think -- from an ego-centric point of view -- that where the state of Montana could struggle is with those who think that UM and MSU are inextricably bound. If UM is ready to make the move, it could -- and should -- do so without MSU, and doing so would be to UM's advantage. They would suddenly become the "top-tier" athletic program in the state, and additional support would then flow to UM. Being tied to MSU hurts in a smaller state.

Competetiveness: Obviously it's impossible to know for certain until we play at that level, but I tend to side with those who believe Montana can be succussful at the next level. Thirty years ago, the success we've had in football would have been likewise unimaginable. Undoubtedly there'd be some growing pains, but I think UM would be a VERY good non-BCS FBS team in relatively short order.

[Tokyogriz]

Player....As a business attorney, you are well aware that there are successful business owners located throughout our state that will donate. In fact, more than likely many more than the Missoula area. Missoula can't compare to Billings in diverse business ownership and I can tell you, the majority are Griz.

Actually, as a business attorney who knows many of the largest businesses in the state, I think the opposite. I am aware of very few that I think would donate anything of significance. I have recently represented multiple companies in selling out for an aggregate of well over $1.5 Billion. Several hundred million of that amount went to people in Montana. I can't think of a single shareholder of those companies who would be likely to donate anything of significance to UM athletics.

Denny Washington is from here, I went to school with his knucklehead kids.

Course you know that. Was in Boise couple years ago and my understanding is he donated 50 mil or something for their program. The Washingtons still donate in this community and its not completely outside the realm of possiblity they could be persuaded to donate here or there. Denny got his start to his Billions here. There are other wealthy folks who live or have 2nd summer homes etc here. I wouldnt say donations are impossible even if you are a hot shot lawyer who knows it all.

[DuCharme]

I wouldnt say donations are impossible even if you are a hot shot lawyer who knows it all.

I'm liking the discussion... so I'd like to point out that PR didnt say that.

He did say...

I am aware of very few that I think would donate anything of significance.

Meaning, at least, he does know somebody that he thinks would.

[Spanky]

Player: I suspect that you know the money is actually there in Montana to well support a move to FBS. In fact, I think you could be a very important individual in the effort to raise the necessary funds. The time for a fund raising state wide event will soon be upon us.....Billings is beginning to blossom and soon will boom with the oil/gas influence of North Dakota and Sidney. The future of UM athletics is no longer determined only by Missoula and more than ever our university is a state university. I spent all of last year calling on businesses in Billings and eastern Montana and I know that with the right presentation, the money will be there for the Griz.

[billings_poke]

Looking at the huge drop in available commercial properties on the market in Billings and the rather significantly increase in Kids in the elementary grades Billings is about to do more then Blossom. damm place is going to light up rather quickly and if the drilling moves into the Lewistown area as some think it will then Billings will flat out boom over the next few years

[bigsky33]

You guys have to stop smoking that weed! You move up and you will be another Idaho. Plus you can't afford to move up.

[billings_poke]

Rumors are that the new conference will have a TV payout of about 3 - 4 million per school. I wonder if that is enough of a bump? Plus at least a 3-4 bid BB league there so the NCAA credits will pile up quickly.

A gamble to be sure

[Cujo]

You guys have to stop smoking that weed! You move up and you will be another Idaho. Plus you can't afford to move up.

It's impossible to determine what would happen to the Griz. Terrible like Idaho? Mediocre like Marshall? Rediculous like Boise? Nobody knows.

Unless you can tell the future. Are you a witch?

[griz4life]

Yes, I'm one of the naysayers -- and that's because Missoula does not/never has/never will have the money that exists in the Boise area. And, without that, nothing good is going to come of "moving up."

I know this post isn't the first to suggest that somehow the state university's ability to fund full scholarship Division I football is somehow tied to how much money Missoula has, but it still just cracks me up. Do people really think the financial health of the University of Montana depends on Missoula's economy? Missoula left to its own devices would struggle to support a community college. Hell, Missoula couldn't even sell out a football game all on its own.
God help us if the state's largest university ever has to turn to Hoagieville or the Southgate Mall for serious dough.

Have you ever looked at what businesses make the donations to UM athletics? So, what businesses in or out of western Montana do you think would donate big bucks to UM athletics?

Have you ever? I don't want to get involved in one of your silly pissing matches. The field the Griz play on, the north endzone, the ad billboards, and that glorious jumbotron were all made possible by donors from outside Missoula, two of those donors are from out of state. The biggest ad space in the stadium has been leased to an out of state business for two seasons now. Did you think all the donors listed in the back of your football program were Missoulians? As someone who has been on that list for two deades, I find your ignorant remarks pretty insulting.

[PlayerRep]

Yes, I'm one of the naysayers -- and that's because Missoula does not/never has/never will have the money that exists in the Boise area. And, without that, nothing good is going to come of "moving up."

I know this post isn't the first to suggest that somehow the state university's ability to fund full scholarship Division I football is somehow tied to how much money Missoula has, but it still just cracks me up. Do people really think the financial health of the University of Montana depends on Missoula's economy? Missoula left to its own devices would struggle to support a community college. Hell, Missoula couldn't even sell out a football game all on its own.
God help us if the state's largest university ever has to turn to Hoagieville or the Southgate Mall for serious dough.

Have you ever looked at what businesses make the donations to UM athletics? So, what businesses in or out of western Montana do you think would donate big bucks to UM athletics?

Have you ever? I don't want to get involved in one of your silly pissing matches. The field the Griz play on, the north endzone, the ad billboards, and that glorious jumbotron were all made possible by donors from outside Missoula, two of those donors are from out of state. The biggest ad space in the stadium has been leased to an out of state business for two seasons now. Did you think all the donors listed in the back of your football program were Missoulians? As someone who has been on that list for two deades, I find your ignorant remarks pretty insulting.

Large donations for facilities tend to be one-time donations. Annual donations to supplement the ongoing annual costs tend to come more from businesses in or near Missoula, including ones that get something in return. Of course, there are exceptions. The NEZ expansion was more of a financial guarantee, as opposed to a big donation. The scoreboard was part of deal for the donor to receive some revenues in return. The donor for the field no longer has a son playing for UM. Some of these donors are involved in real estate development, and that is one of the areas still being hurt by the financial downturn.

Some of the biggest potential donors to UM athletes don't support moving up. That's a problem. One of the bigger potential athletic donors is no longer interested in donating.

There is potential for larger donations from people benefiting from the oil development in northeastern Montana. However, note that most farming/ranching families with potential for oil development in that area, sent their kids to Montana State, not UM. There are some UM alums involved in oil drilling, but I assume most of those people are already donating.

UM athletics is trying to get commitments for the current fundraising for facilities, including locker rooms, weight room, and academic center, and perhaps lights. That's being going on for a year or so. My impression is that they've made progress, but I haven't heard that they're even close to their goal. With the down economy, this isn't a great time to be trying to raise multi-millions of dollars.

griz4life, you don't know what you're talking about. Small donations from people listed on the back of the program aren't going to fund moving up. If anyone is ignorant on this subject, it is you.

[AZGrizFan]

Some of the biggest potential donors to UM athletes don't support moving up. That's a problem. One of the bigger potential athletic donors is no longer interested in donating.

You make these statements like they're fact. How do you know this?

Also, how do you know there aren't OTHER potential donors who WOULD donate IF the Griz moved up?

And how do you know how much griz4life donates?

[Potomac Griz]

You guys have to stop smoking that weed! You move up and you will be another Idaho. Plus you can't afford to move up.

It's impossible to determine what would happen to the Griz. Terrible like Idaho? Mediocre like Marshall? Rediculous like Boise? Nobody knows.

Unless you can tell the future. Are you a witch?

He's a WITCH!! BURN HIM!!!

[PlayerRep]

Some of the biggest potential donors to UM athletes don't support moving up. That's a problem. One of the bigger potential athletic donors is no longer interested in donating.

You make these statements like they're fact. How do you know this?

Also, how do you know there aren't OTHER potential donors who WOULD donate IF the Griz moved up?

And how do you know how much griz4life donates?

[PlayerRep]

Some of the biggest potential donors to UM athletes don't support moving up. That's a problem. One of the bigger potential athletic donors is no longer interested in donating.

You make these statements like they're fact. How do you know this?

Also, how do you know there aren't OTHER potential donors who WOULD donate IF the Griz moved up?

Because I know most of these big donors and potential big donors, several of whom are friends of mine, and I've also been involved in discussions about potential big donors and donations over the years.

[Growler1]

Some of the biggest potential donors to UM athletes don't support moving up. That's a problem. One of the bigger potential athletic donors is no longer interested in donating.

You make these statements like they're fact. How do you know this?

Also, how do you know there aren't OTHER potential donors who WOULD donate IF the Griz moved up?

Because I know most of these big donors and potential big donors, several of whom are friends of mine, and I've also been involved in discussions about potential big donors and donations over the years.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. What a blowhard you are. Proto-typical big fish in a very small pond, blathering away about all of his big-shot buddies. I don't think anyone is impressed.

[GrizMusician]

Why don't we just write Denny Washington another letter?