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Griz vs Badgers

EverettGriz said:
We play extremely disciplined basketball. That makes it tough for less talented teams to close the gap

There are plenty of informed observers who do not believe Montana is less-talented.

Don't teams play slow-down ball because they don't have the talent to compete in the regular paced game? They try to get improve their opportunity to score by causing the opponent to lose focus on defense, and hope their slow-down game causes the opponent to also be frustrated and impatient on offense.
 
For those of you that dont have ESPN's Insider info

MONTANA SCOUTING REPORT
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-col...12-ncaa-bracket-projections-montana-grizzlies
Offensive Preference Montana thrives in a faster-paced game, scoring 70 or more points 16 times this season (including 85 in the Big Sky title game). Their backcourt is their bread and butter -- led by conference defensive player of the year Will Cherry.
Defensive Philosophy You've heard that defense wins championships. The Big Sky champs serve as a prime example. The Grizzlies take away the 3-point line and play excellent switching man-to-man and help defense, holding opponents to just under 62 points per game.
Secret Strength Unless you live in Big Sky country, you probably haven't heard of Mathias Ward. You'll likely remember him after this appearance in the Big Dance. Ward has an inside-outside combo that most guys his size don't possess and will benefit from an opponent's scouting report that focuses elsewhere.
Achilles' Heel Stat-wise there aren't a whole lot of things the Grizzlies don't do well. The biggest drawback with Wayne Tinkle's club lies not in how they've played but rather who. A weak non-conference schedule suggests that Montana hasn't been tested enough to pull an upset.
Will Lose When ... Its back court has a bad night. Cherry and Kareem Jamar account for more than 40 percent of the Grizzlies' scoring. Montana will likely draw a BCS school with guards that can at the very least neutralize the two. Its front court as a whole won't produce enough against a more physical opponent.
Famous Last Words The Grizzlies enter the NCAA tournament having won 20 of their last 21. They're one of the nation's top defensive teams but haven't seen anything on their schedule that's close to their first round opponent. Expect them to compete for a half but too much depth and athleticism on the other side will end their season.

Player statistics are for the regular season only.
THE PLAYERS

Starters
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
1 Kareem Jamar
(6-5, 210 pounds, JR) 34.9 mpg 13.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg 3.7 apg 2.2 tpg
Comment: Jamar has good bounce in the lane and served as the steady hand in the conference title game, converting three big second half 3-pointers. He and Cherry rival any mid-major back court in the country.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
2 Will Cherry
(6-1, 177 pounds, JR) 33.8 mpg 16.0 ppg, 3.9 apg 2.6 spg 2.8 tpg
Comment: The Big Sky's leader in steals, Cherry creates a lot of his offensive opportunities by forcing turnovers and scores well off the dribble and from the outside. The ball will be in his hands if Montana needs a big basket.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
3 Derek Selvig
(6-4, 195 pounds, FR) 30.3 mpg 9.2 ppg, 6.1 rpg .435 3PT 2.2 tpg
Comment: It's a source of pride in the Selvig family to play at Montana. Mom and dad are both former Grizzlies and his younger sister plays for the women's team. Big brother is skilled both around the basket and the outside with 37 3-pointers.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
4 Art Steward
(6-4, 210 pounds, SR) 29.1 mpg 9.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg .525 FG 1.4 tpg
Comment: Steward plays much bigger than his size and can bang with more physical players down low. He often doesn't get the credit he deserves as the team's fourth leading scorer.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
5 Mathias Ward
(6-7, 236 pounds, JR) 26.2 mpg 11.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg .545 FG 0.9 tpg
Comment: Before the conference tournament, Ward hadn't led the team in scoring since before the new year. He's stepped up his game in March, taking that distinction the last two games.
Rotation
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
F Shawn Stockton
(6-1, 195 pounds, SR) 15.6 mpg 3.6 ppg, 1.3 rpg .410 FG .241 3PT
Comment: The nephew of NBA Hall of Famer John Stockton gives the Grizzlies some depth and a change of tempo at guard. If they get any bench production, it will likely come from him.
F Keron DeShields
(6-2, 177 pounds, FR) 6.1 mpg 1.8 ppg, 0.3 rpg .381 3PT .349 FG
Comment: Deshields battled adversity in high school, dealing with the murder of a former teammate. Far away from the mean streets of Baltimore, he's found a home in Missoula.

SEASON NOTES
High point A February 18 matchup with future Mountain West member Hawaii sandwiched in the middle of its conference schedule seemed a little odd but proved to be Montana's most productive game of the season. The Grizzlies shot 56 percent from the field and won their ninth of what is now 14 straight games.
Lowlight On the road at Oregon State in early December, Wayne Tinkle's squad shot a season-low 31 percent and got blown out 71-46 for its worst loss of the season.
Most Revealing Moment Down five at the half in the Big Sky title game, Montana responded with eight 3-pointers in the final 20 minutes. The Grizzlies punished Weber State with a 54-point second half and walked away with the conference's automatic bid.
Did You Know? The Grizzlies 15 conference wins are the most for Tinkle since taking over the job in 2006. Tinkle has averaged 11 Big Sky victories a year in his six seasons as Montana's head coach

WISCONSIN SCOUTING REPORT
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-col...12-ncaa-bracket-projections-wisconsin-badgers
Offensive Preference In Wisconsin's "swing" offense, the Badgers spread the opposition out, set ball-screens galore and even invert their sets all in an effort to create mismatches. Late in the shot clock, the Badgers come out of the swing and let All-Big Ten point guard Jordan Taylor operate off high screens.
Defensive Philosophy You can't spell Badgers without "D." Wisconsin, primarily a man-to-man defensive team, was first nationally in both scoring defense (51.9 ppg allowed) and 3-point percentage defense (.276 allowed). Wisconsin is really adept at limiting opponents' 3-point attempts (just 387 3-point tries in 31 regular-season games).
Secret Strength Bo Ryan conducts his offense at one of the slowest paces in the country. This makes opponents in today's microwave age -- where we need everything, including quality shots, right this instant -- extremely uncomfortable. Opposing coaches compare facing Ryan's teams to facing a root canal. Enough said.
Achilles' Heel The Badgers have a truly special point guard in Taylor, but there's not a lot of firepower on this team. The Badgers were 264th nationally in scoring offense (63.8 ppg). So if the score creeps up above the high-60s, Wisconsin is in trouble.
Will Lose When & They run into a patient, well-coached team with a defensive-minded point guard equipped to at least slow down Taylor and with athletic big men capable of getting Jared Berggren and Mike Bruesewitz in some foul trouble.
Famous Last Words Ryan's teams are always tough to eliminate from one-and-done tournaments because they play killer D, they don't turn the ball over and their style is hellish to prepare for. In 2012 it'll be no different as long as foul-prone starters Josh Gasser, Berggren and Bruesewitz don't get whistled too often.

Player statistics are for the regular season only.
THE PLAYERS
Starters
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
1 Jordan Taylor
(6-1, 195 pounds, SR) 35.8 mpg 14.6 ppg, 4.1 apg 3.8 rpg .403 FG
Comment: Taylor's shooting and scoring numbers are down, but he's one of the best on-court leaders in the college game. The "coach on the floor" type treats the ball like it's his firstborn (126 assists vs. 48 turnovers during the regular season) and is tough to stop in pick-and-roll situations.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
2 Josh Gasser
(6-3, 190 pounds, SO) 34.2 mpg 7.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg .444 3PT 3 foul-outs
Comment: Worked overtime to improve his 3-point aim this offseason, and it paid off (.302 3PT in 2010-11; .444 3PT this year). An absolute pit bull on defense and blessed with high basketball IQ. Coaches plead with him to shoot more often.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
3 Ryan Evans
(6-6, 210 pounds, JR) 30.4 mpg 10.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg .747 FT .200 3PT
Comment: A late bloomer, he was cut from his high school team as a sophomore, but is now a double-figure scorer in the Big Ten. Never shies away from a tough defensive assignment.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
4 Mike Bruesewitz
(6-6, 220 pounds, JR) 26.3 mpg 5.9 ppg, 5.3 rpg .706 FT .389 FG
Comment: Human floor burn plays with a NASCAR-like motor. Has been somewhat inconsistent offensively (.389 FG, .280 3PT) as he's adjusted from off-the-bench player his first two seasons to 25-to-30-minute guy this winter.
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
5 Jared Berggren
(6-10, 235 pounds, JR) 27.6 mpg 10.4 ppg, 5.0 rpg 1.6 bpg 1.4 tpg
Comment: Took on a much larger role in 2011-12 after being an understudy to Jon Leuer and Keaton Nankivil the past two seasons. Dangerous pick-and-pop shooter (.371 3PT) for his size and is battle-tested after guarding the Zeller brothers, Meyers Leonard, Jared Sullinger and Draymond Green this season.
Rotation
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
G Ben Brust
(6-1, 190 pounds, SO) 22.6 mpg 7.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg .833 FT .396 FG
Comment: Originally committed to Iowa, but became a Badger after Todd Lickliter was canned. Provides instant offense and boundless energy off the bench.
G/F Rob Wilson
(6-4, 198 pounds, SR) 10.7 mpg 3.1 ppg, 1.3 rpg 0.5 apg .388 FG
Comment: Cleveland native knows the Ryan gospel inside and out. Allows starting wings to get five-minute rests in each half.
F/C Frank Kaminsky
(6-11, 230 pounds, FR) 8.0 mpg 2.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg 0.4 bpg .423 FG
Comment: His dad played pro ball in South America, so he owns a nice package of post-up moves, but needs to improve his arc work (.290 3PT) to star down the road in Ryan's system.

SEASON NOTES
High point Despite breaking in three new starters (Evans, Berggren and Bruesewitz), the Badgers finished 12-6 in the Big Ten, just one game behind tri-champions Michigan State, Michigan and Ohio State.
Lowlight A three-game losing streak at the start of league play -- to Iowa, Michigan State and Michigan -- had folks in Madison seriously wondering if the Badgers' 13-year NCAA tournament appearance streak would end in 2012.
Most Revealing Moment Wisconsin wiped out an eight-point second-half deficit to stun Ohio State 63-60 in late February, snapping a string of 40 consecutive road losses to top-10 Big Ten teams and illustrating just how far they'd come as a team after the 0-3 start in conference play.
Did You Know? Senior point guard Taylor is just the sixth Wisconsin player to garner first-team all-league honors twice in his career. The other players: Alando Tucker (2006, '07), Kirk Penney (2002, '03), Michael Finley (1993, '95), Ab Nicholas (1951, '52) and Don Rehfeldt (1949, '50).
 
ordigger said:
For those of you that dont have ESPN's Insider info

MONTANA SCOUTING REPORT
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-col...12-ncaa-bracket-projections-montana-grizzlies
Offensive Preference Montana thrives in a faster-paced game, scoring 70 or more points 16 times this season (including 85 in the Big Sky title game). Their backcourt is their bread and butter -- led by conference defensive player of the year Will Cherry.
Defensive Philosophy You've heard that defense wins championships. The Big Sky champs serve as a prime example. The Grizzlies take away the 3-point line and play excellent switching man-to-man and help defense, holding opponents to just under 62 points per game.
Secret Strength
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
3 Derek Selvig
(6-4, 195 pounds, FR) 30.3 mpg 9.2 ppg, 6.1 rpg .435 3PT 2.2 tpg
Comment: It's a source of pride in the Selvig family to play at Montana. Mom and dad are both former Grizzlies and his younger sister plays for the women's team. Big brother is skilled both around the basket and the outside with 37 3-pointers.

I am looking forward to three more years of Derek Selvig. LAGriz too. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
I didnt get a chance see much of wisconsin this year but i just watched some highlights of mr taylor...looked like he made a lot of threes but i noticed in the videos seemed like teams were just letting him dribble around and toss up 3s....I did see a few tough shots but the majority looked like he just stepped up and shot, no hand in the face, no real attempt to guard the shooter...that is not how our perimiter D operates...if anybody has watched his highlights let me know if you saw some of the same things.
 
PlayerRep said:
Don't teams play slow-down ball because they don't have the talent to compete in the regular paced game? They try to get improve their opportunity to score by causing the opponent to lose focus on defense, and hope their slow-down game causes the opponent to also be frustrated and impatient on offense.

i thought you loved bobby ball?
 
Proud Griz Man said:
ordigger said:
For those of you that dont have ESPN's Insider info

MONTANA SCOUTING REPORT
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-col...12-ncaa-bracket-projections-montana-grizzlies
Offensive Preference Montana thrives in a faster-paced game, scoring 70 or more points 16 times this season (including 85 in the Big Sky title game). Their backcourt is their bread and butter -- led by conference defensive player of the year Will Cherry.
Defensive Philosophy You've heard that defense wins championships. The Big Sky champs serve as a prime example. The Grizzlies take away the 3-point line and play excellent switching man-to-man and help defense, holding opponents to just under 62 points per game.
Secret Strength
Pos. Player Min. Basics Good Bad
3 Derek Selvig
(6-4, 195 pounds, FR) 30.3 mpg 9.2 ppg, 6.1 rpg .435 3PT 2.2 tpg
Comment: It's a source of pride in the Selvig family to play at Montana. Mom and dad are both former Grizzlies and his younger sister plays for the women's team. Big brother is skilled both around the basket and the outside with 37 3-pointers.

I am looking forward to three more years of Derek Selvig. LAGriz too. :lol: :lol: :lol:
not till he grows a few inches.
 
Are you honestly implying that Montana, that plays 6 guys in the 25th best conference in the country, has more talent then Wisconsin? I don't even know how to approach that level of ridiculousness to counter it. I'll just say that that is a false statement.

Taylor is the kind of player that can single handedly take over games and dominate them, yes. I meant more that he would have his team ready and locked into the tourney this year. He got some decent looks this year but he can score from anywhere, hands in his face or not. He had ankle surgery in the offseason that really hurt his explosiveness this year, but you can see he is starting to regain some of it as the year has gone on.

I've seen a lot of references to Weber St suggesting that they are somehow a trump card. They would be about the 10th best win on UW's schedule. Their best win is over... I don't see a quality win on their schedule anywhere, other then when they smacked you guys around. They got destroyed by a BYU team that we beat by 17. They do have a star player. But facing a team with one legit option is very different then facing a team like UW that has 7 guys that can drop 20 on you any given night.
 
Bigdsrip said:
Are you honestly implying that Montana, that plays 6 guys in the 25th best conference in the country, has more talent then Wisconsin? I don't even know how to approach that level of ridiculousness to counter it. I'll just say that that is a false statement.

Taylor is the kind of player that can single handedly take over games and dominate them, yes. I meant more that he would have his team ready and locked into the tourney this year. He got some decent looks this year but he can score from anywhere, hands in his face or not. He had ankle surgery in the offseason that really hurt his explosiveness this year, but you can see he is starting to regain some of it as the year has gone on.

I've seen a lot of references to Weber St suggesting that they are somehow a trump card. They would be about the 10th best win on UW's schedule. Their best win is over... I don't see a quality win on their schedule anywhere, other then when they smacked you guys around. They got destroyed by a BYU team that we beat by 17. They do have a star player. But facing a team with one legit option is very different then facing a team like UW that has 7 guys that can drop 20 on you any given night.


The GRIZ will give Wisconsin all it can handle. We too have a great defense, and the stats are not boosted by running the clock down to under 5 seconds every possession. All, but 1 GRIZ that will be suiting up can hit the 3 consistently. Have fun shutting down Jamar and Cherry, despite playing in the Big Sky Conference, this back court combo can hold their own with any in the nation. If, Cherry stays healthy, look for him on a NBA roster after next season. As for Jamar, he is only a sophomore, but what a player. These are 2 players the Pac 12 let get away. Cherry, because of not being a good shooter, which he is solid at now. Jamar, because he stayed faithful to the GRIZ staff that was on him early on.

Your guards will not out play this combination. I give the edge to the Badgers inside though. It will be a close game. Think as you may, about my believe in our guards. They are that damn good, and I doubt they both have a bad game.

I usually am pretty accurate on GRIZ basketball, and not here to be cocky, or disrespect the Badgers. This team is as cohesive as any GRIZ team, including the one that upset Nevada, and their defense is way better than any. You will come away impressed with Cherry, and Jamar.

May the better team win this week. :thumb:
 
Are you honestly implying that Montana, that plays 6 guys in the 25th best conference in the country, has more talent then Wisconsin?

I'm not. I would never say such a thing.
































But I've certainly listened to a number of experts in the field of college basketball who have.....


:coffee: :thumb:


(P.S. The GRIZ have a win over Long Beach. Don't look now, but their RPI is damn near as good as yours).
 
PeauxRouge said:
Some thoughts and some questions for the Badger fans:

First, someone had said it before, either here or on the Weber board, but if you can impose your will in the paint, you will likely win and possibly easily. This is why most on this board were apprehensive of getting matched up with the likes of Baylor. If you want a decent blue print of how to beat this Griz team, you could go back and watch the Semifinal game against EWU. Granted, we won, but they had a great game-plan attacking the paint and using their big, Ederaine, against us. He was quicker than any of our bigs and he made us look pretty silly at times. You can watch some of the Griz games from this season here:

http://b2tv.com/upcoming_events.asp?q=v&value=bigsky" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You just have to sign up for a free account, then login, install both the octet software and the latest flash player (you may need to restart the browser after this), then log in and click on "watch now." Look for the "VOD" link on the player that launches. You can go through past games here.

Anyway, that leads me to a question. How nimble are your big guys? I'd like to say ours are decent, but they just aren't. If they can work Matthias and Dereck, it will be a long day for the Griz.

I would say the UW bigs are generally average in terms of nimbleness -- not bad, just not remarkable. Evans is generally considered the most athletic of the bunch, but his primary game is the 10-15 foot jumper with an occasional slash. Berggren and Bruesewitz are not particularly quick offensive players, but they are good rebounders and passers -- Berggren is the most versatile player on the team, IMO -- a true inside banger (though we all wish he was a bit more polished with his inside game) who also has a perimeter game.

As for the highlights of Jordan Taylor, having the idea that he only makes the uncontested 3 is about 180 degrees from what generally happens. JT often has the ball in his hands with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock (and when I say often, this happens in something like 75% of UW's possessions), so he ends up taking a lot of tough shots. He made more of those shots last year than this year. He rarely has an open shot because he is the main focus of every opponent. Those highlights are highly misleading.

As for the preview post that looks only at total points scored and given up to assess the offense and defense -- whoever made that preview is stupid and doesn't understand basketball. I don't usually use such harsh terms, but any supposed expert who doesn't use tempo-free stats is a dolt. All that matters is how many points you score & allow PER POSESSION. Many pundits & even some coaches argue that Wisconsin's low point totals given up are because we take up so much of the clock on offense (thus limiting the opponents chances to score), but when you look at points given up per possession, we have the 4th fewest in the country. Here is a tempo-free analysis of our game: http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/51396/Montana-Pre-Game-Analysis. You guys are no slouch in defensive points per possession, by the way -- I think you were around 40th or so, which when you consider there's 345 teams isn't bad (& the difference between us is somewhat small). However, the Big Ten has like 4 of the top ten defenses, so we have had to work before. I think that most of the defenses you guys have faced have been in the lower half of the 345.
 
Berg may be a problem unless Tinkle pulls some magic or we get some bench help. Hutch just has to assert himself when given the opportunity. I've seen Eric have moments of playing tough smart really aggressive basketball this year so he does have it in him.
 
These two writers rank our matchup as the least likely to have an upset in the East bracket. (Peter Keating & Jordan Brenner)

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-col...ent-giant-killers-top-upset-picks-east-region

Others...
St Bonaventure vs Florida State (22.1%)
Harvard vs Vanderbilt (19.7%)
Loyola Maryland vs Ohio State (9.5%)
UNC Ashville vs Syracuse (5.2%)

Yep you read it right, they believe that UNC-Ashville has a better chance of beating Syracuse than we do of beating Wisconsin.



No. 13 Montana (2.0) vs. No. 4 Wisconsin (21.8)
Upset chance: 4.3 percent

There's just enough here not to completely dismiss a slaying, and Wisconsin may be slightly overrated by tempo-free stats. But don't stake your bracket on this upset. The Badgers give the ball up just 15.1 percent of the time, which is second in the country, so you can forget about rattling them with pressure. They also own the offensive glass and absolutely smother opponents beyond the arc (giving up only 19.9 percent of their points from that distance, one of the best marks in the nation). If there's a weakness, Wisconsin doesn't score enough from 2-point range, which makes its offense less consistent than you'd like from a top-tier Giant. And the Badgers' weak nonconference performance isn't the greatest harbinger of success in these types of games.

But Montana isn't an ideal GK. Although the Grizzlies have won 14 straight games, their methods don't match those of effective Giant Killers. They're lousy on the offensive glass, below average in generating points from 3-point range (which is strange, because they hit 38.3 percent of their treys, so let it fly!) and haven't proved themselves against difficult competition. To their credit, they do a nice job of both preventing and forcing turnovers, although good luck trying to get Wisconsin to cough it up. And the Grizzlies defend the arc exceptionally well, allowing just 24.3 percent of opponents' points from downtown. But even though Will Cherry is a master thief (4.6 steal percentage, 15th in the nation) and Kareem Jamar could go off from 3 (44.5 percent), it's hard to find enough weapon
 
They also own the offensive glass

I see no evidence of that unless he has a totally different meaning of owning.

They're lousy on the offensive glass, below average in generating points from 3-point range (which is strange, because they hit 38.3 percent of their treys, so let it fly!)

I agree we are lousy on the offensive glass, but can someone please explain the second part of this statement. It seems to me that he made a statement then posted evidence to disprove his own statement. Am I misinterpreting something? I'm not saying that he is right or wrong about the Griz being unable to pull the upset, but I am having a hard time figuring out where he got his info.
 
Why would anybody even spend ten seconds looking at stats as a way to measure these two teams? It's completely meaningless unless you play in the same conference, and even then it's pretty weak.
 
argrizfan said:
They also own the offensive glass
I see no evidence of that unless he has a totally different meaning of owning.
I believe he meant to say defensive glass. Against Wisconsin, though, trying to get offensive rebounds won't hurt you as much as against, say, UNC, because UW rarely gets transition points.

argrizfan said:
They're lousy on the offensive glass, below average in generating points from 3-point range (which is strange, because they hit 38.3 percent of their treys, so let it fly!)
I agree we are lousy on the offensive glass, but can someone please explain the second part of this statement. It seems to me that he made a statement then posted evidence to disprove his own statement. Am I misinterpreting something? I'm not saying that he is right or wrong about the Griz being unable to pull the upset, but I am having a hard time figuring out where he got his info.
No, it makes sense. He's saying that Montana doesn't shoot the 3 enough given how well they shoot it. However, it looks like you shoot the 2 pretty well too, and draw plenty of fouls in the process, so I don't see any need to change your offense.
 
Yeah I realized that a little bit ago. I feel a little dumb about that one. The "so let it fly" kind of was a dead give-a-way. lol
 
Bigdsrip said:
first11 said:
saw on a post that Big Ten basketball is #1 of conf in US. That is one sorry state for college bb when Big Ten is tops...college bb is in a sorry state for the rest of us I guess...


What? I don't follow, who should be on top? Lame post.

nice comment Einstein....get out much?? :roll:
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Why would anybody even spend ten seconds looking at stats as a way to measure these two teams? It's completely meaningless unless you play in the same conference, and even then it's pretty weak.

Well, I'm guessing you don't like stats. Ken Pomeroy has one of several websites that use stats from all games that are able to adjust for the competition http://kenpom.com. I won't be able to convince those who think that analyzing stats is "pretty weak", but these sites can be very instructive about the relative strengths and weaknesses of unfamiliar foes. To think that they're completely meaningless is fine -- you have your way of enjoying the run-up to a big game and I have my more superior way :) .
 
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