We would not be talking

GrizLA said:

Copper Griz said:

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

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Good post...I like the idea of personal responsibility. It is part of the maturation process. I think, even though I think the current president is not up to the job, that UM is going to be even better in the future because of this. If there is one kid in Montana that has not gotten the message that UM will no longer tolerate behavior that we now see being discussed here and elsewhere, then perhaps they should go elsewhere. First and foremost, UM is a university with a football team that represents much of the state and alumni, spread around the world..not the other way around.

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First good post you have made in months.

ALPHAGRIZ1 said:

maroonandsilver said:

Copper Griz said:

We would not be talking about Pflu and O'day being fired and our quarterback being expelled if - young men had acted responsibly and conducted themselves appropriately. I am no fan of Royce, Gwen Florio or the Board of Regents, but we would not be slapping ourselves trying to wake up from this nightmare if - players had behaved appropriately and thought of someone other than themselves. Like it or not, when you are a scholarship athlete you are held to a higher standard and you will always be under a microscope if you do something stupid. This is a lesson for current and future players. You better come prepared for academics and athletics and you will be held accountable for your actions!

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+1 :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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This

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+1

EaglePtGriz said:

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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+1. Basically what I posted previously.

tnt said:

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

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I seen a WBB player smoking pot in front of Stocks, 5-6 yrs ago. Means nothing, just sayin'.

EaglePtGriz said:

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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Innocent until proven guilty went out the window the last 8-10 years with the incredible crime spree that has taken place under ODay, Hauck and Pflus watch.

There is also a VAST FU*KING DIFFERENCE between the law and school rules but some people (Jokyo) cant seems to comprehend that.

'68griz said:

EaglePtGriz said:

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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+1. Basically what I posted previously.

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+2 We don't know the facts but right on!!

He wasn't bounced because he was accused, nor is anyone else. Others were bounced but reinstated after appeals. Title IX is more concerned about atmosphere and saftey. The standard is doubt, not guilt. It goes so far as to say drunk sex is nonconsensual. Whether it rises to the level of a crime or not is irrelevant. Stupidity and bad judgement is enough.

EaglePtGriz said:

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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As the parent of a student athlete, I hope you communicate with your son about appropriate behavior and personal responsibility. Could JJ have been accused wrongly - yes. That still does not explain the putrid odor surrounding the program over the past few months/years (depending on your opinion). There was a hell of a lot more than just this incident and I have a feeling JJ is under scrutiny for more than this "rape accusation". I am tired of all of the excuse makers. Blame the feminist's, the administration, the coaches - blame every mf'er other than the kids who are now in jail or who have been accused. My mother always told me nothing good ever happens after 11:00 pm. Start adding up the incidents surrounding the program this year. A strict curfew and some discipline would have eliminated these issues or the kids would have been down the road. There are a ton of good kids left on the football team. Do them all a favor and move on with your excuse making people. Hopefully they learn from all this BS and the program can move forward.

Copper Griz said:

EaglePtGriz said:

As a parent of a student athlete who has signed to play for the Griz next year it is very disturbing to me that a student can be expelled from school, kicked of the football team and everything else that has happened to Jordan Johnson, because some girl has accused him of rape. He has not been arrested which tells me there is no evidence, if there was the police would have arrested him. This whole thing is so wrong. What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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As the parent of a student athlete, I hope you communicate with your son about appropriate behavior and personal responsibility. Could JJ have been accused wrongly - yes. That still does not explain the putrid odor surrounding the program over the past few months/years (depending on your opinion). There was a hell of a lot more than just this incident and I have a feeling JJ is under scrutiny for more than this "rape accusation". I am tired of all of the excuse makers. Blame the feminist's, the administration, the coaches - blame every mf'er other than the kids who are now in jail or who have been accused. My mother always told me nothing good ever happens after 11:00 pm. Start adding up the incidents surrounding the program this year. A strict curfew and some discipline would have eliminated these issues or the kids would have been down the road. There are a ton of good kids left on the football team. Do them all a favor and move on with your excuse making people. Hopefully they learn from all this BS and the program can move forward.

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Great post!

tnt said:

I just have to ask, if one of Robin Selvigs players was seen drunk downtown or at the forresters ball, what would the results have been? Why are football players special?

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Sorry pal, they always had orders to stay out of downtown but I partied with a bunch of them years ago at the Elbow Room, I will say none of the ladies attempted to assault me.

They did get drunk, just wasn't downtown, so your point is, well :lol:

tnt said:

He wasn't bounced because he was accused, nor is anyone else. Others were bounced but reinstated after appeals. Title IX is more concerned about atmosphere and saftey. The standard is doubt, not guilt. It goes so far as to say drunk sex is nonconsensual. Whether it rises to the level of a crime or not is irrelevant. Stupidity and bad judgement is enough.

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You raise an interesting point about drunk sex being non consensual. You seem to be ignoring the fact that using your definition that a male in this situation who is also drunk can't be held liable because being impaired prevents one from acting with malice and aforethought, paraphrasing.

Stupidity and bad judgement go both ways. Using title IX is a bullshit arguement...the title IX excuse is what gave the Saudi kid a Get out of Jail Free (see Monopoly) Card.

Kids at college are sexually active, were in the mid 70's when I was at college and I'm sure they still are. Was alcohol involved then, yep, but we pretty much stuck to beer and avoided the blackout drunk state that seems to come up with hard liquor use common in these recent incidents.

You are clueless if you don't think this issue has been been politicized, case in point the DOJ fishing expedition.

I agree it is up to responsible parents to educate their kids about the ways of the world. I have a couple nieces who made it through school here with no problems in this area because they were raised by common sense parents. It seems you think government can create a perfect world. I just have to disagree.

Anyone who thinks this is poiticised is politically naive. Given the past (and sorted) history of DOJ attorneys office, they aren't about to step out. While it may make news print on a slow news cycle, most of the country has no clue where we are at and could care less. Most importantly though, our senatorial race is perhaps the single most critical race in the country (including the presidency) Control of the senate is critical to either party's agenda. It will be decided in Montana. Neither party would risk politicising anything.

Sadly there has been enough smoke coming from the U, there is fire somewhere. Love or hate RE, he has been taking action one step at a time well enough to keep things from really blowing up. The ONLY people he has really pissed off are few Boosters, and rabid fans. Casualties perhaps, but in the end worthwhile.