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Special special teams (plus Colt!)

G

garizzalies

Well-known member
All four of the nfl divisional championship games last weekend were decided by special teams. Three FGs at the buzzer to win, one blocked punt for a TD which was the biggest play of the entire weekend, and one game decided in OT after a horrible decision not to squib kick.

Thank god we have a special teams coach worth a damn. ST’s can be the deciding factor in tight championships.

And Colt’s season is still alive! He is the assistant ST coach for cincy.

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/colt-anderson


Which reminds me, who is the MS-poo’s ST coach? Whoever it is, shouldn’t s/he be fired? And while we’re on that topic, don’t they have like four coaching vacancies right now? I thought national signing day was coming up. Seems like recruits usually want to know who their coach might be before signing, but maybe that’s not the “Bubcat way”.
 
Was it really a bad decision by the Bills to kick it into the back of the endzone though? The way I look at it, with 13 seconds remaining, it would seem that the only plausible way to give up a score is by kicking it to them and they either break off a big return to put themselves in a position to get a field goal or break it all the way off for a TD. The problem is if you squib it, then one of the upbacks will just fall on it, and the chiefs would've been left with great field position to start as they would've avoided kicking it deep. To me, I think the right decision was to not allow them to have any type of return at all. Their defense shouldn't have shit the bed.
 
Griz til I die said:
Was it really a bad decision by the Bills to kick it into the back of the endzone though? The way I look at it, with 13 seconds remaining, it would seem that the only plausible way to give up a score is by kicking it to them and they either break off a big return to put themselves in a position to get a field goal or break it all the way off for a TD. The problem is if you squib it, then one of the upbacks will just fall on it, and the chiefs would've been left with great field position to start as they would've avoided kicking it deep. To me, I think the right decision was to not allow them to have any type of return at all. Their defense shouldn't have shit the bed.
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Don’t kick it into the end zone, make them field it by squibbing it to take time off clock. Poor coaching in my opinion. What a way to lose a game.smh
 
Jesse said:
Griz til I die said:
Was it really a bad decision by the Bills to kick it into the back of the endzone though? The way I look at it, with 13 seconds remaining, it would seem that the only plausible way to give up a score is by kicking it to them and they either break off a big return to put themselves in a position to get a field goal or break it all the way off for a TD. The problem is if you squib it, then one of the upbacks will just fall on it, and the chiefs would've been left with great field position to start as they would've avoided kicking it deep. To me, I think the right decision was to not allow them to have any type of return at all. Their defense shouldn't have shit the bed.
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Don’t kick it into the end zone, make them field it by squibbing it to take time off clock. Poor coaching in my opinion. What a way to lose a game.smh
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If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
 
Griz til I die said:
Jesse said:
Don’t kick it into the end zone, make them field it by squibbing it to take time off clock. Poor coaching in my opinion. What a way to lose a game.smh
Click to expand...
If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
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Yup, prevent D, or lack there of, lost this game for the bills.
 
What cost the Bills was Prevent D. The only thing prevent defense does is prevent you from winning....You Play to win, you don't play to try not lose.
 
reinell30 said:
What cost the Bills was Prevent D. The only thing prevent defense does is prevent you from winning....You Play to win, you don't play to try not lose.
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I heard Herm Edwards when you said that. :clap:
 
Griz til I die said:
Jesse said:
Don’t kick it into the end zone, make them field it by squibbing it to take time off clock. Poor coaching in my opinion. What a way to lose a game.smh
Click to expand...
If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
Click to expand...

I call BS. In the pros, the kickers know how to pooch kick to require fielding between the goal line and the 20. A fair catch is dead at the point of reception, not the 25 like in college, so a fair catch at the 10 or 15 is dead there. Same if they catch and fall to the ground. Or they could field it and run after catching and time runs as well. KC was not forced to make a decision on the field about such a kick. We've all seen the return guy who wants to be a hero field it at the 5 and get downed inside the 20. The only thing we know for sure is this scenario will see a lot of practice and evaluation, specials teams on the kick and "prevent D" by all NFL teams in the future.
 
horribilisfan8184 said:
Griz til I die said:
If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
Click to expand...

I call BS. In the pros, the kickers know how to pooch kick to require fielding between the goal line and the 20. A fair catch is dead at the point of reception, not the 25 like in college, so a fair catch at the 10 or 15 is dead there. Same if they catch and fall to the ground. Or they could field it and run after catching and time runs as well. KC was not forced to make a decision on the field about such a kick. We've all seen the return guy who wants to be a hero field it at the 5 and get downed inside the 20. The only thing we know for sure is this scenario will see a lot of practice and evaluation, specials teams on the kick and "prevent D" by all NFL teams in the future.
Click to expand...
A squib kick is not designed to go to the return man, it's designed to go to one of the upbacks who has a tougher time getting down the field compared to the return man. Henceforth, if you design a squib to go inside the 10 or 15, the return man is gonna pick it up which puts Buffalo in the same risky position as just kicking to him, and the possibility that he breaks off a big return.
 
alabamagrizzly said:
Griz til I die said:
If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
Click to expand...

Yup, prevent D, or lack there of, lost this game for the bills.
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in the last thirty seconds, the buccaneers went for a blitz, with single coverage on kupp. that didn't work out too well, either.
 
argh! said:
alabamagrizzly said:
Yup, prevent D, or lack there of, lost this game for the bills.
Click to expand...

in the last thirty seconds, the buccaneers went for a blitz, with single coverage on kupp. that didn't work out too well, either.
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The problem was they had a safety on him. He ran by that dude like he was expecting backside help. :lol: :lol:
 
I thought about this a couple years ago: both teams get the ball in OT. First and goal from the 20. You have 4 downs to score. OR if you choose to kick on 4th down…it’s a 48 yard field goal…even if you’re at the 3. That way…all aspects of the game are involved. Offense, defense, special teams, and coaching decisions. Just a random thought hahahaha.
 
Griz til I die said:
the only plausible way to give up a score is by kicking it to them
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Only plausible way?
Mahomey had all three time outs left and didn’t even have to use the last one. Only needed two plays to get into FG range. 2!
The FG was kicked with only 3secs left on the clock—about the time a squib kick would take.
At that point in the game, time is more important than yards. McDermott gift-wrapped them an extra play which happened to be the play that won it.
 
horribilisfan8184 said:
Griz til I die said:
If you squib it, you risk giving them better field position from like the 35 or the 40. That's how squib kicks work, and if you squib it, no time is gonna come off the clock because the upbacks are coached that when the ball comes to you to just fall on it. That would've taken at most a second off the clock. You put yourself in a more vulnerable position by squib kicking it. The best option would be to kick it into the back of the end zone, which they did. They got the ball from the 25 and all they had to was stop them from reaching the opposing 40 yard line. This is on the Bills defense. They made the right decision to kick it into the back of the end zone.
Click to expand...

I call BS. In the pros, the kickers know how to pooch kick to require fielding between the goal line and the 20. A fair catch is dead at the point of reception, not the 25 like in college, so a fair catch at the 10 or 15 is dead there. Same if they catch and fall to the ground. Or they could field it and run after catching and time runs as well. KC was not forced to make a decision on the field about such a kick. We've all seen the return guy who wants to be a hero field it at the 5 and get downed inside the 20. The only thing we know for sure is this scenario will see a lot of practice and evaluation, specials teams on the kick and "prevent D" by all NFL teams in the future.
Click to expand...
I agree. GTID’s approach might be the correct in HS or FCS but we’re talking about the NFL here, and 13 secs with 3 TOs, and Patty Mahomies might as well be 3 light years, especially when they only need about 40 yards for a FG.
It amounted to an extra play when they only needed 2.
Certainly “plausible”. In fact, some would say predictable.
And this business about the up-back? I think a pro kicker could figure it out, but if the up-back does fall on it—good! Let him lay there while nobody touches him and the clock ticks until the ref blows it dead. If that happened, from kickoff to whistle, it would take more than “at most a second”. Probably take 3-4, maybe more. I heard some talking head today say the average was 5secs!!
 
garizzalies said:
horribilisfan8184 said:
I call BS. In the pros, the kickers know how to pooch kick to require fielding between the goal line and the 20. A fair catch is dead at the point of reception, not the 25 like in college, so a fair catch at the 10 or 15 is dead there. Same if they catch and fall to the ground. Or they could field it and run after catching and time runs as well. KC was not forced to make a decision on the field about such a kick. We've all seen the return guy who wants to be a hero field it at the 5 and get downed inside the 20. The only thing we know for sure is this scenario will see a lot of practice and evaluation, specials teams on the kick and "prevent D" by all NFL teams in the future.
Click to expand...
I agree. GTID’s approach might be the correct in HS or FCS but we’re talking about the NFL here, and 13 secs with 3 TOs, and Patty Mahomies might as well be 3 light years, especially when they only need about 40 yards for a FG.
It amounted to an extra play when they only needed 2.
Certainly “plausible”. In fact, some would say predictable.
And this business about the up-back? I think a pro kicker could figure it out, but if the up-back does fall on it—good! Let him lay there while nobody touches him and the clock ticks until the ref blows it dead. If that happened, from kickoff to whistle, it would take more than “at most a second”. Probably take 3-4, maybe more. I heard some talking head today say the average was 5secs!!
Click to expand...
Small point, but you don't have to be touched to give yourself up in the NFL. An up man could simply fall on the ball and no time would have run off the clock. QB's take a knee all the time and they don't have to be touched for the play to end.
 
SaskGriz said:
garizzalies said:
I agree. GTID’s approach might be the correct in HS or FCS but we’re talking about the NFL here, and 13 secs with 3 TOs, and Patty Mahomies might as well be 3 light years, especially when they only need about 40 yards for a FG.
It amounted to an extra play when they only needed 2.
Certainly “plausible”. In fact, some would say predictable.
And this business about the up-back? I think a pro kicker could figure it out, but if the up-back does fall on it—good! Let him lay there while nobody touches him and the clock ticks until the ref blows it dead. If that happened, from kickoff to whistle, it would take more than “at most a second”. Probably take 3-4, maybe more. I heard some talking head today say the average was 5secs!!
Click to expand...
Small point, but you don't have to be touched to give yourself up in the NFL. An up man could simply fall on the ball and no time would have run off the clock. QB's take a knee all the time and they don't have to be touched for the play to end.
Click to expand...

Small point #2, but when a QB takes a knee, the clock keeps running in the NFL.
 
SaskGriz said:
garizzalies said:
I agree. GTID’s approach might be the correct in HS or FCS but we’re talking about the NFL here, and 13 secs with 3 TOs, and Patty Mahomies might as well be 3 light years, especially when they only need about 40 yards for a FG.
It amounted to an extra play when they only needed 2.
Certainly “plausible”. In fact, some would say predictable.
And this business about the up-back? I think a pro kicker could figure it out, but if the up-back does fall on it—good! Let him lay there while nobody touches him and the clock ticks until the ref blows it dead. If that happened, from kickoff to whistle, it would take more than “at most a second”. Probably take 3-4, maybe more. I heard some talking head today say the average was 5secs!!
Click to expand...
Small point, but you don't have to be touched to give yourself up in the NFL. An up man could simply fall on the ball and no time would have run off the clock. QB's take a knee all the time and they don't have to be touched for the play to end.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s accurate, but maybe someone can correct me with the actual rules. All the talking heads yesterday seemed to believe it was a huge gaffe. Hell, even that meathead Tony Romo commented on it in real time.
I believe the clock starts when the ball is touched (or maybe when it bounces in play) and is not stopped until the ref blows the whistle, which is not instantaneous as you indicated. I think it usually takes the ref a second or two to realize the player is giving himself up and blow the whistle, and possibly a second after that for the clock to actually stop. That’s about all the time at issue.
If the ball bounces or is bobbled, or if the idiot tried to return it, even more time comes off. Why not force the Chiefs to field it and make them risk it? It is a live ball after all, and the bills’s last chance to run some clock. Instead, the bills did not circle the wagons, did not press the issue, and voluntarily gave up an advantage.
 
garizzalies said:
Which reminds me, who is the MS-poo’s ST coach? Whoever it is, shouldn’t s/he be fired? And while we’re on that topic, don’t they have like four coaching vacancies right now? I thought national signing day was coming up. Seems like recruits usually want to know who their coach might be before signing, but maybe that’s not the “Bubcat way”.
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Bump. Can’t believe a cat fan hasn’t addressed this paragraph.
How many coaching vacancies are there?
Is there a plan to fill those before signing day?
Was it confirmed that the fake-FG-punt-touchback was really supposed to be an attempt at a drop-kick FG? What did your special teams coach say about that play? Did he call it, or did ve6an? Did they ever practice it before?
 
AZGrizFan said:
SaskGriz said:
Small point, but you don't have to be touched to give yourself up in the NFL. An up man could simply fall on the ball and no time would have run off the clock. QB's take a knee all the time and they don't have to be touched for the play to end.
Click to expand...

Small point #2, but when a QB takes a knee, the clock keeps running in the NFL.
Click to expand...
That is because that is a rushing play and the clock does not stop on a rushing play, where the rusher neither got out of bounds nor gained a first down.
 
garizzalies said:
SaskGriz said:
Small point, but you don't have to be touched to give yourself up in the NFL. An up man could simply fall on the ball and no time would have run off the clock. QB's take a knee all the time and they don't have to be touched for the play to end.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s accurate, but maybe someone can correct me with the actual rules. All the talking heads yesterday seemed to believe it was a huge gaffe. Hell, even that meathead Tony Romo commented on it in real time.
I believe the clock starts when the ball is touched (or maybe when it bounces in play) and is not stopped until the ref blows the whistle, which is not instantaneous as you indicated. I think it usually takes the ref a second or two to realize the player is giving himself up and blow the whistle, and possibly a second after that for the clock to actually stop. That’s about all the time at issue.
If the ball bounces or is bobbled, or if the idiot tried to return it, even more time comes off. Why not force the Chiefs to field it and make them risk it? It is a live ball after all, and the bills’s last chance to run some clock. Instead, the bills did not circle the wagons, did not press the issue, and voluntarily gave up an advantage.
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It's RULE 7 Section 4 Article 1 (a).
Also to each their own opinion but Tony Romo is paid $18 million a year for next 10 years partly because of his uncanny ability to predict what will happen and then explain what did happen. So maybe he's a meathead but then again.
 
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