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Where are the Cats and griz four games in?

ilovethecats said:
EverettGriz said:
Take out the game where your defense couldn't hold back a fart and what's the msu number?
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Not sure. But obviously our strength of schedule would go down had we not played an FBS school. But I think that goes without saying. But it seems the strength of schedule argument would be pointless if we just removed the good teams that teams have to play. I think that is the entire point of a strength of schedule. And why it changes week to week.

I don't know how far the Cats will get this year but I'd think that unless we make it back to Frisco and NDSU is there again that OSU will be our toughest opponent all year. So playing them, even with them shelacking us, will obviously bolster our strength of schedule.
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But here's the rub: Your SOS would be the same if OSU beat you on a hail mary after you dominated the whole game, right? Of course, that's not what happened. SOS doesn't mean as much if all the good teams that got you that SOS beat you by 40.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
ilovethecats said:
Not sure. But obviously our strength of schedule would go down had we not played an FBS school. But I think that goes without saying. But it seems the strength of schedule argument would be pointless if we just removed the good teams that teams have to play. I think that is the entire point of a strength of schedule. And why it changes week to week.

I don't know how far the Cats will get this year but I'd think that unless we make it back to Frisco and NDSU is there again that OSU will be our toughest opponent all year. So playing them, even with them shelacking us, will obviously bolster our strength of schedule.
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But here's the rub: Your SOS would be the same if OSU beat you on a hail mary after you dominated the whole game, right? Of course, that's not what happened. SOS doesn't mean as much if all the good teams that got you that SOS beat you by 40.
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It could. And does depending on how those teams do going forward. Which is why it changes all of the time. We could go 0-11 and if the 11 teams who beat us all end up with amazing records our strength of schedule gets even higher. Doesn't mean anything for our own team, just that the teams we played were good. If Oregon St. ends up being the shits it will hurt our SOS, though not terribly as they are still an FBS school.

A team like EWU could effect it more. They were 15th when we played them (overrated in my view) and if they continue losing within the conference that win we had looks less and less.

It's nothing more than just another indicator of a teams win-loss record for fans to harp on. :thumb:
 
ilovethecats said:
EverettGriz said:
Take out the game where your defense couldn't hold back a fart and what's the msu number?
Click to expand...
Not sure. But obviously our strength of schedule would go down had we not played an FBS school. But I think that goes without saying. But it seems the strength of schedule argument would be pointless if we just removed the good teams that teams have to play. I think that is the entire point of a strength of schedule. And why it changes week to week.

I don't know how far the Cats will get this year but I'd think that unless we make it back to Frisco and NDSU is there again that OSU will be our toughest opponent all year. So playing them, even with them shelacking us, will obviously bolster our strength of schedule.
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Well of course. But SOS only matters if you WIN. You could play the Bills every week and have a SOS of #1 in the NFL. But that's rather meaningless if you're giving up 7 every time the other team's offense so much as looks at the football.

My point being, you can't call UM's schedule weak because they beat everyone, and msu's strong because they beat the teams equal to those on UM's schedule and looked like a DIII school in the game that makes their SOS higher.

The Raiders will likely have the highest SOS in the NFL this year, and if they go 1-7 against the AFC West, not one person will give a shit. You have to win for it to matter.
 
EverettGriz said:
ilovethecats said:
Not sure. But obviously our strength of schedule would go down had we not played an FBS school. But I think that goes without saying. But it seems the strength of schedule argument would be pointless if we just removed the good teams that teams have to play. I think that is the entire point of a strength of schedule. And why it changes week to week.

I don't know how far the Cats will get this year but I'd think that unless we make it back to Frisco and NDSU is there again that OSU will be our toughest opponent all year. So playing them, even with them shelacking us, will obviously bolster our strength of schedule.
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Well of course. But SOS only matters if you WIN. You could play the Bills every week and have a SOS of #1 in the NFL. But that's rather meaningless if you're giving up 7 every time the other team's offense so much as looks at the football.

My point being, you can't call UM's schedule weak because they beat everyone, and msu's strong because they beat the teams equal to those on UM's schedule and looked like a DIII school in the game that makes their SOS higher.

The Raiders will likely have the highest SOS in the NFL this year, and if they go 1-7 against the AFC West, not one person will give a shit. You have to win for it to matter.
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not in clown world, Everett! :lol:
 
EverettGriz said:
ilovethecats said:
Not sure. But obviously our strength of schedule would go down had we not played an FBS school. But I think that goes without saying. But it seems the strength of schedule argument would be pointless if we just removed the good teams that teams have to play. I think that is the entire point of a strength of schedule. And why it changes week to week.

I don't know how far the Cats will get this year but I'd think that unless we make it back to Frisco and NDSU is there again that OSU will be our toughest opponent all year. So playing them, even with them shelacking us, will obviously bolster our strength of schedule.
Click to expand...

Well of course. But SOS only matters if you WIN. You could play the Bills every week and have a SOS of #1 in the NFL. But that's rather meaningless if you're giving up 7 every time the other team's offense so much as looks at the football.

My point being, you can't call UM's schedule weak because they beat everyone, and msu's strong because they beat the teams equal to those on UM's schedule and looked like a DIII school in the game that makes their SOS higher.

The Raiders will likely have the highest SOS in the NFL this year, and if they go 1-7 against the AFC West, not one person will give a shit. You have to win for it to matter.
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No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
 
ilovethecats said:
EverettGriz said:
Well of course. But SOS only matters if you WIN. You could play the Bills every week and have a SOS of #1 in the NFL. But that's rather meaningless if you're giving up 7 every time the other team's offense so much as looks at the football.

My point being, you can't call UM's schedule weak because they beat everyone, and msu's strong because they beat the teams equal to those on UM's schedule and looked like a DIII school in the game that makes their SOS higher.

The Raiders will likely have the highest SOS in the NFL this year, and if they go 1-7 against the AFC West, not one person will give a shit. You have to win for it to matter.
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No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
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not many teams of note have played many teams of note 5 games into the season.

The real season starts right about now. These last six weeks will separate the wheat from the chaff, in this and other meaningful conferences.
 
AZGrizFan said:
ilovethecats said:
No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
Click to expand...

not many teams of note have played many teams of note 5 games into the season.

The real season starts right about now. These last six weeks will separate the wheat from the chaff, in this and other meaningful conferences.
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Agree 100% Which is why all the other stuff is just fan banter back and forth.

Cats are 4-1, just where nearly everyone I know had them being at this point. Would have like to not get steamrolled against OSU but it's a loss I was counting on. If that is an indicator of our season, and not an outlier we are in trouble. May not win again. Griz are 5-0 which is exactly where everyone knew they'd be. If they are only good because you played crappy teams you're in trouble. If you're a great team and beat those teams like you should on the way to beating everyone else you'll obviously be very good. We just don't know how it'll shake out once we all have to play the majority of the same teams.

Guess that was my only point. :lol:
 
ilovethecats said:
EverettGriz said:
Well of course. But SOS only matters if you WIN. You could play the Bills every week and have a SOS of #1 in the NFL. But that's rather meaningless if you're giving up 7 every time the other team's offense so much as looks at the football.

My point being, you can't call UM's schedule weak because they beat everyone, and msu's strong because they beat the teams equal to those on UM's schedule and looked like a DIII school in the game that makes their SOS higher.

The Raiders will likely have the highest SOS in the NFL this year, and if they go 1-7 against the AFC West, not one person will give a shit. You have to win for it to matter.
Click to expand...
No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
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Okay, but why are cat fans constantly saying the GRIZ haven't played anyone? Other than OSU (which I think we all can agree the cats really don't want involved in ANY discussion about quality), the cat's schedule is no better (and the argument could be made actually worse since they played a nonscholarship). This is the part of the convo I don't understand.
 
well NDSU plays Indiana State and MSU plays ISU this weekend, so I'll get to apply one of my favorite scientific methods, the transitive property, to see where we stack up. lol
 
EverettGriz said:
ilovethecats said:
No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
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Okay, but why are cat fans constantly saying the GRIZ haven't played anyone? Other than OSU (which I think we all can agree the cats really don't want involved in ANY discussion about quality), the cat's schedule is no better (and the argument could be made actually worse since they played a nonscholarship). This is the part of the convo I don't understand.
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Because that's what fans do. It's just noticeable when the shoe is on the other foot. I won't bore you but I could find countless comments this exact time last year when Griz fans were saying that the Cats played no one and only "looked" good because of that soft schedule. And had we had a terrible season they would have been correct. As it stands, we had a pretty good team last year.

I'm on record saying I think the Griz are a good team with a great defense. I don't believe they just "look" good. I think they are good. If you guys win a bunch of games the next 6 weeks I'll be right. If you lose a bunch, maybe the 5-0 start was just because you played inferior teams. We won't know for a while.

I'm surprised that you're confused on why fans, especially Cat and Griz fans, look for any and every opportunity to slight the other. :lol:
 
EverettGriz said:
ilovethecats said:
No doubt. That is why SOS isn't the end all be all of how good a team is. But it can certainly be used as the season progresses to determine what factors there are of why a team could have a record they have. Also why I never said the Griz suck because of theirs or the Cats are great because of theirs. In fact, I'm having a similar conversation on BN saying this is exactly where the Cats were last year. We rolled through the first part of the season because other than Wyoming we didn't play anyone the first month and a half. We had to hear plenty how we weren't good and our record was only good because of the crap teams we played. You can only play who's on your schedule.

I'm just pointing out that all schedules aren't equal, and it's worth looking at when trying to determine where everyone stands. Also why I said we'll really know where we all stand heading into November.
Click to expand...

Okay, but why are cat fans constantly saying the GRIZ haven't played anyone? Other than OSU (which I think we all can agree the cats really don't want involved in ANY discussion about quality), the cat's schedule is no better (and the argument could be made actually worse since they played a nonscholarship). This is the part of the convo I don't understand.
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Well as the more respected Cat fan pointed out - it's because that's what fans do on message boards LOL. But, I will shoot down one of your theories, whether you follow or put any thought into strength of schedule or not, the decision makers do and it was already pointed out the Cat schedule is much tougher than UM schedule at this point. Even if we would have played say UNC team rather than OSU, Cats and griz would both be 5-0 and the Cats would have played a toucher schedule than griz (per the experts).

Last point, if you think ISU is better than EWU, you're high. If you think PSU is better than UCD, you're high.
 
poorgriz said:
EverettGriz said:
Okay, but why are cat fans constantly saying the GRIZ haven't played anyone? Other than OSU (which I think we all can agree the cats really don't want involved in ANY discussion about quality), the cat's schedule is no better (and the argument could be made actually worse since they played a nonscholarship). This is the part of the convo I don't understand.
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Well as the more respected Cat fan pointed out - it's because that's what fans do on message boards LOL. But, I will shoot down one of your theories, whether you follow or put any thought into strength of schedule or not, the decision makers do and it was already pointed out the Cat schedule is much tougher than UM schedule at this point. Even if we would have played say UNC team rather than OSU, Cats and griz would both be 5-0 and the Cats would have played a toucher schedule than griz (per the experts).

Last point, if you think ISU is better than EWU, you're high. If you think PSU is better than UCD, you're high.
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What would the cats' SOS be removing the ten (10!!!!!!!!!!!!!) touchdown game? It would virtually identical to the GRIZ.

Last point, if you think McNeese is better than South Dakota you're an imbecile. If you believe Morehead (MOREHEAD!!!!!) is better than Indiana State, you're an imbecile.
 
poorgriz said:
Copper Griz said:
Bear Spray,
Your post is respectful and realistic. I, like others on the board, don’t believe the Cats can be one dimensional and win. They just don’t have the horses they used to. Especially on Defense. Choate recruited well and hit the Griz when they were down. Bobby has all the cylinders firing and the defense is ridiculously good. Injuries - yes they could be a factor. We will wait and see. I actually feel bad for Cat fans. Way too many injuries this year and that is frustrating. Griz fans know what that is all about after last year. Seriously - EWU did not look good. They are in trouble as a program. They have slid way backward. Possibly the worst team they have fielded in the past ten years. They look really bad in so many areas. Cats are likely going to experience what the Griz did when Bobby left. Down years and takes a while turn the program around.
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Do you still believe all this? And, if PR is watching, do you still think the griz would have crushed the Cats on Saturday..... assuming you watched both games? I hope you all still feel that way, and think the Cats are middle of the pack this year, i.e. won't put up much of a fight against the griz. :cool:
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MtHoops stands behind all of his posts, including crushing the Cats and even on the rare occasion when I've made a mistake. And no I didn't see much of either game. I'm on sabbatical/bye weeks on the Oregon Coast in my RV. The Cats suck this year, just like they did last year, but, like last year, they keep finding a way to win (except when giving up 10 TD's). Note the Griz clobbered the Cats last year too. Also, consider whether these posts are serious or whether they are just needling certain Cat fans. The Griz gave up zero TD's against IS until 5 or so minutes left in the game, when the back-ups were in. The Cat would haven't gotten even less.
 
EverettGriz said:
poorgriz said:
Well as the more respected Cat fan pointed out - it's because that's what fans do on message boards LOL. But, I will shoot down one of your theories, whether you follow or put any thought into strength of schedule or not, the decision makers do and it was already pointed out the Cat schedule is much tougher than UM schedule at this point. Even if we would have played say UNC team rather than OSU, Cats and griz would both be 5-0 and the Cats would have played a toucher schedule than griz (per the experts).

Last point, if you think ISU is better than EWU, you're high. If you think PSU is better than UCD, you're high.
Click to expand...

What would the cats' SOS be removing the ten (10!!!!!!!!!!!!!) touchdown game? It would virtually identical to the GRIZ.

Last point, if you think McNeese is better than South Dakota you're an imbecile. If you believe Morehead (MOREHEAD!!!!!) is better than Indiana State, you're an imbecile.
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There is no way Morehead is better than Ball State and I know both would wear out the Trojans...

Subject to conjecture and preference I suppose.
 
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poorgriz said:
EverettGriz said:
Okay, but why are cat fans constantly saying the GRIZ haven't played anyone? Other than OSU (which I think we all can agree the cats really don't want involved in ANY discussion about quality), the cat's schedule is no better (and the argument could be made actually worse since they played a nonscholarship). This is the part of the convo I don't understand.
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Well as the more respected Cat fan pointed out - it's because that's what fans do on message boards LOL. But, I will shoot down one of your theories, whether you follow or put any thought into strength of schedule or not, the decision makers do and it was already pointed out the Cat schedule is much tougher than UM schedule at this point. Even if we would have played say UNC team rather than OSU, Cats and griz would both be 5-0 and the Cats would have played a toucher schedule than griz (per the experts).

Last point, if you think ISU is better than EWU, you're high. If you think PSU is better than UCD, you're high.
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EWU is better than ISU, but PSU and UCD are even, and you’re just a homer suggesting otherwise as both have similar schedules and results this far into the season.
 
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