A Choat-led 4yr losing streak?

Get the low down on Griz/FCS Football
bobcatfan123
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kemajic wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:15 pm
MiningCityGrizFan wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:17 pm No one was debating Paffer or Ahyat, dummy. It was simply a point of reference.

And even if we were, you don’t appear to understand how to debate.

Hint: Don’t skip the part of where you articulate an intelligent argument to support your opinion and jump right to being aggressive and insulting.

That’s not a debate, it’s a desperate cry for attention...
It's pretty hard to debate someone so stupid to state as fact, not opinion, that Paffhausen was a better QB than one of the top UM QBs of all time; one who took the team to the NC game as a soph. and was second only to DD in all-time passing yardage and TD passes. Meanwhile, other than one game against St. Mary's, Paffhausen does not appear in the record book. You do not qualify for debate.
Had the pleasure to meet Paffhausen when working together on a project. Seems like a really good guy. He mentioned that he was the backup for Dickenson, didn't even think about him also being the backup for Ah Yat. Tough time to try and crack the starting lineup being that those might be the best two qb's to ever play in Missoula.
bobcatfan123
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twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 pm
poorgriz wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:48 pm
twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:53 pm
poorgriz wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:18 pm

Sometimes you guys really come off as brain dead over here. Is it really that hard for you to understand? Let's break it down. I said, exactly. "One of if not the best defense in the Big Sky." Last year we finished the year 2nd in scoring defense (The most important defensive stat by far), and 3rd in total defense. So last year we unquestionably had one of the best defenses in the Big Sky. The talent that has been brought into the defense and will play in 2018 is seriously going to be something to watch. Will it be enough to take over Weber as the best defense in the Big Sky? I think it might but I'm not positive. That's why I said "One of if not the best." Seriously, some of you guys need to look around and pay attention to what is happening with other programs, like PR does.
Funny how MSU fans think the Cat defense is right up there with Weber St as the best in the conference! The truth is, MSU was not even in the same ball park as Weber St! In scoring defense WSU was the best in the Big Sky at 15.8 points a game, nobody else was even close. S. Utah, MSU and NAU were well behind at 24.2, 24.6, and 24.9 points a game (conference only stats). UM was 5th at 28.8 points a game, and that was with an offense that was one of the worst in the league in time of possession (2nd to last) and turnovers (tied 2nd to last). I'm expecting Big Sky fans will see a defense that improves quite a bit this year, but it isn't from Bozeman.
MSU was 2nd in scoring defense in the Big Sky, just like I said. Yes, we were well behind Weber, I acknowledged that. I can promise you the MSU defense is going to be much better in 2018 than 2017. Again, if you guys don't see that then you're not paying attention. Once again, I'm trying to help here. You guys are waaaay over estimating the Hauck factor. He's not going to come in and work miracles in his first year back with your current roster.
No, MSU was 3rd, behind both Weber and S. Utah. Here's the stat's from the Big Sky website:
  • SCORING DEFENSE G TD FG XPT 2XP DXP Saf Points Avg/G
  • 1. Weber State 8 15 8 12 0 0 0 126 15.8
  • 2. Southern Utah 8 25 7 23 0 0 0 194 24.2
  • 3. Montana State 8 23 12 19 2 0 0 197 24.6
https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

You keep acting like MSU's defense was All World last year, but your defense wasn't all that special. It wasn't even all that good. Giving up nearly 25 points in conference isn't something to be bragging about, but especially considering that MSU played only 1 of the top 4 scoring teams in the Big Sky (EWU), but did face 4 of the 5 worst scoring teams (ISU, UND, N. Col, and PSU)! You can keep running mouth about how great MSU's defense will be this year, but you have no credibility when they weren't nearly as good last year as you claim they were.
I actually agree with most of what you said. Our front seven struggled to put pressure on the quarter back throughout the year. Our defense should be improved, but those watching practice still question if our LB core will match the productivity of last year (we did lose McCabe and Bignell). Overall, I have high hopes for this years defense, but it's a little early to be anointing ourselves as being dominant.
poorgriz
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bobcatfan123 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:31 am
twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 pm
poorgriz wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:48 pm
twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:53 pm

Funny how MSU fans think the Cat defense is right up there with Weber St as the best in the conference! The truth is, MSU was not even in the same ball park as Weber St! In scoring defense WSU was the best in the Big Sky at 15.8 points a game, nobody else was even close. S. Utah, MSU and NAU were well behind at 24.2, 24.6, and 24.9 points a game (conference only stats). UM was 5th at 28.8 points a game, and that was with an offense that was one of the worst in the league in time of possession (2nd to last) and turnovers (tied 2nd to last). I'm expecting Big Sky fans will see a defense that improves quite a bit this year, but it isn't from Bozeman.
MSU was 2nd in scoring defense in the Big Sky, just like I said. Yes, we were well behind Weber, I acknowledged that. I can promise you the MSU defense is going to be much better in 2018 than 2017. Again, if you guys don't see that then you're not paying attention. Once again, I'm trying to help here. You guys are waaaay over estimating the Hauck factor. He's not going to come in and work miracles in his first year back with your current roster.
No, MSU was 3rd, behind both Weber and S. Utah. Here's the stat's from the Big Sky website:
  • SCORING DEFENSE G TD FG XPT 2XP DXP Saf Points Avg/G
  • 1. Weber State 8 15 8 12 0 0 0 126 15.8
  • 2. Southern Utah 8 25 7 23 0 0 0 194 24.2
  • 3. Montana State 8 23 12 19 2 0 0 197 24.6
https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

You keep acting like MSU's defense was All World last year, but your defense wasn't all that special. It wasn't even all that good. Giving up nearly 25 points in conference isn't something to be bragging about, but especially considering that MSU played only 1 of the top 4 scoring teams in the Big Sky (EWU), but did face 4 of the 5 worst scoring teams (ISU, UND, N. Col, and PSU)! You can keep running mouth about how great MSU's defense will be this year, but you have no credibility when they weren't nearly as good last year as you claim they were.
I actually agree with most of what you said. Our front seven struggled to put pressure on the quarter back throughout the year. Our defense should be improved, but those watching practice still question if our LB core will match the productivity of last year (we did lose McCabe and Bignell). Overall, I have high hopes for this years defense, but it's a little early to be anointing ourselves as being dominant.
McCabe was a safety. I agree it's too early to spout off about MSU D being "dominant". I certainly haven't said that, but I do think we'll be among the best defenses in the Big Sky.
Bobby Hauck is God. He's not a God... he's the God.
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Montana State ranked last in the league in interceptions and 11th out of 13 teams in sacks. Those are key stats when it comes to ranking the top defenses in the conference. Jeff Choate has said on the record many times that the Bobcats had a strategy to "make teams earn it", prioritizing not giving up big plays and max dropping on passing downs almost exclusively. That contributed to the low sack number as well as the low point total. In terms of doing just that, making teams earn it, and keeping scores down, MSU's defense was one of the Big Sky's best. In terms of third down defense, getting to the quarterback, making plays on the ball and getting the ball back, MSU's was one the least productive defenses in the league.

MSU's defense has been shored up significantly through Ty Gregorak's scheme (nothing like the one he ran at UM), Jeff Choate's individual coaching and a renewed priority on solidifying that side of the ball after the complete meltdown that was the 2015 season. But the unit has also gotten by with average talent and has masked their deficiencies well.

Another key factor in MSU's defensive statistics last season: The Bobcats led the league in rushing offense, becoming the first to lead the league other than Cal Poly since the Mustangs joined the league in 2012.
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EverettGriz
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No way this makes 17 pages.
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mcg
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poorgriz wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:38 am
bobcatfan123 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:31 am
twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 pm
poorgriz wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:48 pm

MSU was 2nd in scoring defense in the Big Sky, just like I said. Yes, we were well behind Weber, I acknowledged that. I can promise you the MSU defense is going to be much better in 2018 than 2017. Again, if you guys don't see that then you're not paying attention. Once again, I'm trying to help here. You guys are waaaay over estimating the Hauck factor. He's not going to come in and work miracles in his first year back with your current roster.
No, MSU was 3rd, behind both Weber and S. Utah. Here's the stat's from the Big Sky website:
  • SCORING DEFENSE G TD FG XPT 2XP DXP Saf Points Avg/G
  • 1. Weber State 8 15 8 12 0 0 0 126 15.8
  • 2. Southern Utah 8 25 7 23 0 0 0 194 24.2
  • 3. Montana State 8 23 12 19 2 0 0 197 24.6
https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

You keep acting like MSU's defense was All World last year, but your defense wasn't all that special. It wasn't even all that good. Giving up nearly 25 points in conference isn't something to be bragging about, but especially considering that MSU played only 1 of the top 4 scoring teams in the Big Sky (EWU), but did face 4 of the 5 worst scoring teams (ISU, UND, N. Col, and PSU)! You can keep running mouth about how great MSU's defense will be this year, but you have no credibility when they weren't nearly as good last year as you claim they were.
I actually agree with most of what you said. Our front seven struggled to put pressure on the quarter back throughout the year. Our defense should be improved, but those watching practice still question if our LB core will match the productivity of last year (we did lose McCabe and Bignell). Overall, I have high hopes for this years defense, but it's a little early to be anointing ourselves as being dominant.
McCabe was a safety. I agree it's too early to spout off about MSU D being "dominant". I certainly haven't said that, but I do think we'll be among the best defenses in the Big Sky.
Now the bozeman fans are arguing with each other.
PlayerRep
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Colter_Nuanez56 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:38 am Montana State ranked last in the league in interceptions and 11th out of 13 teams in sacks. Those are key stats when it comes to ranking the top defenses in the conference. Jeff Choate has said on the record many times that the Bobcats had a strategy to "make teams earn it", prioritizing not giving up big plays and max dropping on passing downs almost exclusively. That contributed to the low sack number as well as the low point total. In terms of doing just that, making teams earn it, and keeping scores down, MSU's defense was one of the Big Sky's best. In terms of third down defense, getting to the quarterback, making plays on the ball and getting the ball back, MSU's was one the least productive defenses in the league.

MSU's defense has been shored up significantly through Ty Gregorak's scheme (nothing like the one he ran at UM), Jeff Choate's individual coaching and a renewed priority on solidifying that side of the ball after the complete meltdown that was the 2015 season. But the unit has also gotten by with average talent and has masked their deficiencies well.

Another key factor in MSU's defensive statistics last season: The Bobcats led the league in rushing offense, becoming the first to lead the league other than Cal Poly since the Mustangs joined the league in 2012.
Thanks for the good info. Very helpful.
SACCAT66
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HookedonGriz wrote: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am
SACCAT66 wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 pm God....I can't wait for football to start. In about 3 weeks some (not all) questions will be answered....Both the CATS and the griz start with very strong tests...Both at home..
Do you think everyone is giving Western Illinois too much credit? They were picked seventh in the Missouri Valley and are getting no love nationally either. They lost a lot as well as have a new coach I’m not sure they’re as big of a test as all of us are thinking right now.
Don't know...They did lose a lot, but still have the stud QB, and the coach was at the program last year, and was coach in waiting from what I hear. They were a playoff team last year, so have been farther than any Bobcat on the team we have this year...
garizzalies
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bigsky33 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:57 pm
It is going to be replaced. It was last painted using lead paint. It will cost a fortune to have it just painted, thus plans are underway to replace it and bowl in the stadium plus adding a new athletic center. Project a next Spring start.
This post raises so many questions.
First, when was it last painted?
You make it sound like it’s now cheaper to rebuild than repaint. How so?
Is there a fund set up to handle the delusions caused by the lead paint?
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cclarkblues
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Note that we did not let Washington State hang 77 on us.
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garizzalies
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poorgriz wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:38 am I agree it's too early to spout off about MSU
:clap: :lol: :clap: :lol:
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uofmman1122
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DriscollCat wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 am
uofmman1122 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:05 am
DriscollCat wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:50 am
twentythreeOh4 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 pm

No, MSU was 3rd, behind both Weber and S. Utah. Here's the stat's from the Big Sky website:
  • SCORING DEFENSE G TD FG XPT 2XP DXP Saf Points Avg/G
  • 1. Weber State 8 15 8 12 0 0 0 126 15.8
  • 2. Southern Utah 8 25 7 23 0 0 0 194 24.2
  • 3. Montana State 8 23 12 19 2 0 0 197 24.6
https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

You keep acting like MSU's defense was All World last year, but your defense wasn't all that special. It wasn't even all that good. Giving up nearly 25 points in conference isn't something to be bragging about, but especially considering that MSU played only 1 of the top 4 scoring teams in the Big Sky (EWU), but did face 4 of the 5 worst scoring teams (ISU, UND, N. Col, and PSU)! You can keep running mouth about how great MSU's defense will be this year, but you have no credibility when they weren't nearly as good last year as you claim they were.
Yes MSU was 2nd in scoring defense if you look at the main statistics page on the BSC website. You chose to look at the conference only page so that you found a stat more to your liking. Note, MSU nonconference consisted of a P5 school, a semifinal team and a quarterfinal team - not easier that BSC teams. SUUs ooc was tough too, but no tougher than MSUs. No matter how you slice your statistics though, the MSU defense was among the top in the big sky last year.
SUU’s non conference makes them look worse because Oregon hung 77 on them. That’s why it only makes sense to look at conference stats.
Note that we did not let Washington State hang 77 on us. Regardless, it is dishonest for 2304 to state that we were NOT 2nd in scoring defense. We were by one standard. He could state that for in conference play we were technically not 2nd but 3rd (though the difference between us and SUU in conference was minimal). But he didn’t. He said, “No, MSU was 3rd” and tried to say that meant that MSU wasn’t among the top defenses in the conference.
So you were 3rd where it mattered.
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Jaredkuehn
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Meanwhile, you can hear crickets over at BCN. Interesting for a year with so much hype from east of the hill.
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MiningCityGrizFan
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bobcatfan123 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:24 am
kemajic wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:15 pm
MiningCityGrizFan wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:17 pm No one was debating Paffer or Ahyat, dummy. It was simply a point of reference.

And even if we were, you don’t appear to understand how to debate.

Hint: Don’t skip the part of where you articulate an intelligent argument to support your opinion and jump right to being aggressive and insulting.

That’s not a debate, it’s a desperate cry for attention...
It's pretty hard to debate someone so stupid to state as fact, not opinion, that Paffhausen was a better QB than one of the top UM QBs of all time; one who took the team to the NC game as a soph. and was second only to DD in all-time passing yardage and TD passes. Meanwhile, other than one game against St. Mary's, Paffhausen does not appear in the record book. You do not qualify for debate.
Had the pleasure to meet Paffhausen when working together on a project. Seems like a really good guy. He mentioned that he was the backup for Dickenson, didn't even think about him also being the backup for Ah Yat. Tough time to try and crack the starting lineup being that those might be the best two qb's to ever play in Missoula.
Paffer is a good guy. And he was a phenomenal natural athlete. Apparently, it's controversial to point out that he was considered to be a better quarterback than Ayat because of the career Ayat ended up having -- to clarify I never said Ayat wasn't a very good QB.

Heading into the 1996 season though, before the days of high-speed internet, smartphones, and social media, Paffer was a far more well-known in Montana, having led Butte High to an undefeated state championship season and being the offensive player of the year for Montana. He was also an accomplished track athlete as well, though I don't know those details off the top of my head...

So despite the shock displayed by some, it is a historical fact that heading into the 1996 season Paffer and Ayat were competing to replace Dickenson. Much like Anderson with MSU, Paffer had the ability to play multiple positions. In the end, the coaching staff wanted both of them on the field so Paffer moved to WR and the rest is history.

That was an amazingly talented team -- TRIGGER WARNING: Many people think it was more talented than the 1995 team (gasp!) -- So I'm not surprised at all that Ayat did as well as he did. Paffer did very well too, I just wish he could've stayed healthy. He played through a knee injury and ended up with a nice career, but I think he would've had a chance to play on Sundays had he stayed healthy. Similiar to Mariani in the NFL, I'll always wonder what would have happened if he didn't get hurt.

All right, thanks for the break. It's back to real life now. :-)
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Mavman
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Earlier this summer I had posted that The bobcats would be a good team that could make the playoffs lead by their Defense. I had more than one bobcat poster tell me that the defense had lost a lot and may not be as good this year on that side of the ball. The loss of Bignell and others they said would be a lot to overcome.
Fast forward two months and cats are singing a different tune.

I still think the defense will be good for the cats and their ball control offense will give them a chance to win most games.
AKA nevada griz
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IdaGriz01
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Mavman wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:26 am Earlier this summer I had posted that The bobcats would be a good team that could make the playoffs lead by their Defense. I had more than one bobcat poster tell me that the defense had lost a lot and may not be as good this year on that side of the ball. The loss of Bignell and others they said would be a lot to overcome.
Fast forward two months and cats are singing a different tune.

I still think the defense will be good for the cats and their ball control offense will give them a chance to win most games.
Not trying to be argumentative, but ... IMO, there ball control offense was mostly about Murray's athletic skills and creativity (give credit where credit is due). Have not heard that their converted LB has anywhere near that much talent. Their OL is supposedly pretty decent, but do they have the backs to take advantage of that and really control the ball on the ground?
Mavman
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IdaGriz01 wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:47 am
Mavman wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:26 am Earlier this summer I had posted that The bobcats would be a good team that could make the playoffs lead by their Defense. I had more than one bobcat poster tell me that the defense had lost a lot and may not be as good this year on that side of the ball. The loss of Bignell and others they said would be a lot to overcome.
Fast forward two months and cats are singing a different tune.

I still think the defense will be good for the cats and their ball control offense will give them a chance to win most games.
Not trying to be argumentative, but ... IMO, there ball control offense was mostly about Murray's athletic skills and creativity (give credit where credit is due). Have not heard that their converted LB has anywhere near that much talent. Their OL is supposedly pretty decent, but do they have the backs to take advantage of that and really control the ball on the ground?
Excellent points. Will they rely on their qb/lb/rb TA to use his feet more then arm?
I think they are a little young at WR, is that correct? I would guess they will rely heavily on the run game, try to catch teams of guard with some play action, and really try to win field position battle with their defense.
AKA nevada griz
bigsky33
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garizzalies wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 am
bigsky33 wrote: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:57 pm
It is going to be replaced. It was last painted using lead paint. It will cost a fortune to have it just painted, thus plans are underway to replace it and bowl in the stadium plus adding a new athletic center. Project a next Spring start.
This post raises so many questions.
First, when was it last painted?
You make it sound like it’s now cheaper to rebuild than repaint. How so?
Is there a fund set up to handle the delusions caused by the lead paint?

Cannot remember when it was last painted. It has been many years. Not worth the cost of repainting now with current plans to replace and bowl in the stadium and build a new football athletic center that will start this spring. All the lead paint would have to be removed. Not worth it. Do not know what you mean about a fund to handle delusions.
poorgriz
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garizzalies wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
poorgriz wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:38 am I agree it's too early to spout off about MSU
:clap: :lol: :clap: :lol:
Why don't you at least quote the entire sentence?
Bobby Hauck is God. He's not a God... he's the God.
garizzalies
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poorgriz wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:28 pm
garizzalies wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
poorgriz wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:38 am I agree it's too early to spout off about MSU
:clap: :lol: :clap: :lol:
Why don't you at least quote the entire sentence?
Hehe. Even funnier.
Like it matters.
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