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What Came 1st, The Snap, or the Timeout?

M

mtgrizrule

Well-known member
WOW, I finally got a chance to watch the last drive from my DVR. I have watched the play when Eastwood scored, to have it called back for a Cat time out. Too bad, we cannot have video to confirm when the timeout occurred. Based on audio and when I heard the whistle, it sounded as if the GRIZ snapped the ball slightly before a whistle was heard/blown. I hope everyone who can watch the replay, do so, then give your opinion. I really am trying not to be a GRIZ homer on this. I'd actually hope that maybe some other BSC team fans can weigh in, that aren't GRIZ or Cat fans.

Then again, the difference is so slight, and the officials don't have the benefit of replay to hear and/or see it, like we do. Either way, after seeing and hearing the replay, I honestly feel, once the offense is set, the defense cannot call a time out. Doing it so late really makes the job of the officials more difficult. That is magnified by a loud stadium too. I honestly doubt the officials could hear when the whistle actually blew for the timeout. Therefore, they used common sense, assuming MSU did indeed call time out on time.

It is a shame, the GRIZ lost. We have no way of knowing, one way or the other as to when the timeout was officially called, then granted. Based on what we can see and hear, to me I think the TD should have been confirmed. Either way, the GRIZ should not have let the Cats come back to have everyone in that position. Maybe this will create some change for the better, to make officiating slightly bit easier.

Either way, the Cats took advantage of the GRIZ allowing them to comeback. The outcome of the game was determined by more things than this. A great game like that, should not end in question, like this one did.
 
Interesting. Haven't watched this, except in real time. There were indications to me that the play had been blown dead. Usually, a whistle, some player stop or slow, a reference is clearly stopping the play. I saw none of that. Seemed late. Seemed like even refs didn't know what had happened.

My relatives were leaning on the rail in the SEZ. Former high school players, and dad was a coach. Very knowledgeable. They didn't hear a whistle or see any indication of a TO before the snap.

Which ref called the TO, and where was he standing?
 
PlayerRep said:
Interesting. Haven't watched this, except in real time. There were indications to me that the play had been blown dead. Usually, a whistle, some player stop or slow, a reference is clearly stopping the play. I saw none of that. Seemed late. Seemed like even refs didn't know what had happened.

My relatives were leaning on the rail in the SEZ. Former high school players, and dad was a coach. Very knowledgeable. They didn't hear a whistle or see any indication of a TO before the snap.

Which ref called the TO, and where was he standing?
Click to expand...

PR, everything you and I are saying and asking is legitimate. I sure in the hell would like to know, one way or the other, if the GRIZ were robbed of that TD?
 
...yes l thought the play was in full implantation when time out was called!..Choate alluded that in
the press conference he says he told the Ref he was going to call a time out...but l think it was late
and he knew it!
 
After the play, I immediately scanned the goal line area for flags, from left to right. Saw noting that made me think the play had been blown dead, and, of course, no flags. The refs seemed confused. Didn't seem like any of them, except maybe the culprit, knew a TO had been called in time to blow the play dead.

Would love to know the background of the ref who made the call.
 
As a coach you can tell the side judge that you want a TO right before the snap and call it as you have that attention. I'm assuming that is what happened. Good TO call by Choate. Just was. Period.
 
Normally, toward the end of quarters, halves, and game, I watch the sidelines of the team that needs to call a late timeout. I was so damn caught up in the game, I wasn't watching the Cat sideline. Had I been watching, I'd know my answers. I 100% accept all blame and responsibility for not paying attention to it.

I do know, many of the fans around me, were questioning the timing of the timeout. One of the guys in the area, is normally level headed and pays a lot attention. When, he was questioning it, that really made me wonder more. Yes, I've heard him, in the past even question things favoring the opponents, and/or going against the GRIZ. He claimed to be watching Choate and the Cat sideline, he said, he didn't see any indication of an on time timeout.

As I was walking out of the Stadium and around tailgates, I heard a few Cat fans even question the time out? One fan questioned Choate, something like, "Why would a head coach wait so long or not make a timeout request more obvious sooner?" Had the Cats lost, Choate would be to be blamed for not asking for the timeout sooner.

I am sure the trolls on this board, will completely disregard this. I really do hope some of the more openminded and fair posters will give their opinion of this.
 
As alluded to above, I would approve a rule change that does not allow the defense to call a timeout once the offense (center) has addressed the ball (don't care if defense realizes they are in the wrong scheme or a player down or whatever, that would be part of the game).

How can an official reasonably be expected to dually see a head coach calling timeout from the sideline while simultaneously watching the field to determine the timing of each and which came first?

Deciding on the timing of both ruins the flow of the game and just creates confusion.
 
I saw a near exact scenario play out on Friday. In the major SOCAL high school playoff game, the favored team scored a td from the 1 yd line only to have it negated by the other coach calling a time out nano seconds before. I saw South Carolina do the same against Missouri. Maybe, the scouting by MSU paid off. It was a great call by the MSU coach and a bad break for UM.
 
Sam A. Blitz said:
As a coach you can tell the side judge that you want a TO right before the snap and call it as you have that attention. I'm assuming that is what happened. Good TO call by Choate. Just was. Period.
Click to expand...

Chances are, you are correct on this. However, if this is the case, that referee should have blown the whistle sooner. I 100% honestly believe from what I heard and saw, the whistle came late. That play should have been allowed. Then again, as it turned out, the officials chose the lesser of 2 evils. I cannot imagine how much more magnified this would be, had it played out the way it appeared.
 
Unfortunately it is happening all the time now in college and in the pros. How many times have you seen a timeout on a field goal called to ice the kicker and the ball is snapped and the kick is good and he is forced to do it again. Don’t like it but how do you stop it? Both teams can use a timeout at anytime of the game right? Look at it this way if BH didn’t like what defense they were in he could have called his own timeout just prior to the snap. This game will become a classic and be debated forever, as it should be. :thumb:
 
I don’t know this to be true, and I’m a bad fan, but I think if the time out was called before the snap, it doesn’t matter when the whistle is blown.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
I don’t know this to be true, and I’m a bad fan, but I think if the time out was called before the snap, it doesn’t matter when the whistle is blown.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure on that. Logically, the referees have to be given time to acknowlege it, and communicate it. Just like a batter requesting a timeout in the batter's box. If he waits to long, the ump doesn't have to grant it, and the pitch still counts. :thumb:
 
I recorded the play on my phone from the NEZ and took a look at it this morning. Zooming in, I could see Choate standing right by the sideline ref, getting ready to call for the TO. But the ball was definitely snapped right before the reform started running onto the field waving his arms and blowing his whistle.

In a situation when a play determines the outcome of the game, wouldn’t you have the replay officials review the timing of the TO to make sure you get the call right? If the ball is snapped before the ref blows his whistle, you shouldn’t be able to stop the play and reverse the resulted play. But like others have said, this wouldn’t be an issue had we not struggled and let them make a comeback.
 
If Choate calls time out before the ball is snapped, the TO happens at the time of the call, not the time the whistle blows. This happens all the time on field goals as well. TO is called before the snap, ref blows whistle just after the snap. Not a huge fan of it, but it's well within the rules.. Can't argue against what is totally legal. Good on him for getting lucky on this one.
It very well have been the opposite. Call time out, but griz fumble it away. Get another chance and score.
How would you feel about it then?
 
mtgrizrule said:
WOW, I finally got a chance to watch the last drive from my DVR. I have watched the play when Eastwood scored, to have it called back for a Cat time out. Too bad, we cannot have video to confirm when the timeout occurred. Based on audio and when I heard the whistle, it sounded as if the GRIZ snapped the ball slightly before a whistle was heard/blown. I hope everyone who can watch the replay, do so, then give your opinion. I really am trying not to be a GRIZ homer on this. I'd actually hope that maybe some other BSC team fans can weigh in, that aren't GRIZ or Cat fans.

Then again, the difference is so slight, and the officials don't have the benefit of replay to hear and/or see it, like we do. Either way, after seeing and hearing the replay, I honestly feel, once the offense is set, the defense cannot call a time out. Doing it so late really makes the job of the officials more difficult. That is magnified by a loud stadium too. I honestly doubt the officials could hear when the whistle actually blew for the timeout. Therefore, they used common sense, assuming MSU did indeed call time out on time.

It is a shame, the GRIZ lost. We have no way of knowing, one way or the other as to when the timeout was officially called, then granted. Based on what we can see and hear, to me I think the TD should have been confirmed. Either way, the GRIZ should not have let the Cats come back to have everyone in that position. Maybe this will create some change for the better, to make officiating slightly bit easier.

Either way, the Cats took advantage of the GRIZ allowing them to comeback. The outcome of the game was determined by more things than this. A great game like that, should not end in question, like this one did.
Click to expand...

In the postgame presser Choate said he informed the head linejudge while the teams were still huddled he was going to take a timeout. He wanted to see the formation. Late whistle was on the (always awful) Big Sky refs...it was a tough deal for you guys, but it was legit.
 
get'em_griz said:
I recorded the play on my phone from the NEZ and took a look at it this morning. Zooming in, I could see Choate standing right by the sideline ref, getting ready to call for the TO. But the ball was definitely snapped right before the reform started running onto the field waving his arms and blowing his whistle.

In a situation when a play determines the outcome of the game, wouldn’t you have the replay officials review the timing of the TO to make sure you get the call right? If the ball is snapped before the ref blows his whistle, you shouldn’t be able to stop the play and reverse the resulted play. But like others have said, this wouldn’t be an issue had we not struggled and let them make a comeback.
Click to expand...

...its going to be interesting to REVIEW this but you would have thought Bobby would have asked for
a review but in the heat of the battle and all the chaos he probably thought we would score again..
not! ..but he did mention in the press conference that TA fumble the ball on the goal line right after..
not sure ?
 
4thecats said:
If Choate calls time out before the ball is snapped, the TO happens at the time of the call, not the time the whistle blows. This happens all the time on field goals as well. TO is called before the snap, ref blows whistle just after the snap. Not a huge fan of it, but it's well within the rules.. Can't argue against what is totally legal. Good on him for getting lucky on this one.
It very well have been the opposite. Call time out, but griz fumble it away. Get another chance and score.
How would you feel about it then?
Click to expand...
In addition Line judges dont typically have their wistle in their mouths at the start of a play, (Avoids inadvertant whistles) so it takes a second or 2 from hearing the time out call until the whistle. That ref is the sole judge of if the call was made in time or not.
 
The.Real.2506 said:
4thecats said:
If Choate calls time out before the ball is snapped, the TO happens at the time of the call, not the time the whistle blows. This happens all the time on field goals as well. TO is called before the snap, ref blows whistle just after the snap. Not a huge fan of it, but it's well within the rules.. Can't argue against what is totally legal. Good on him for getting lucky on this one.
It very well have been the opposite. Call time out, but griz fumble it away. Get another chance and score.
How would you feel about it then?
Click to expand...
In addition Line judges dont typically have their wistle in their mouths at the start of a play, (Avoids inadvertant whistles) so it takes a second or 2 from hearing the time out call until the whistle. That ref is the sole judge of if the call was made in time or not.
Click to expand...
Both of these are, unfortunately for Griz fans, adept descriptions of how the play is officiated. It doesn't matter when the whistle is blown, what matters is when the timeout was requested by the coach.
 
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