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Covid Updates - Not Politics

PlayerRep

Well-known member
1. Studies are coming out now are showing that the rate of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths for those who are NOT vaccinated are almost the same as the rates in mid-January, when covid was raging in the U.S. Apparently, the decreased rates of covid in recent months are occurring because of the much lower rates in vaccinated people.

"that rosy picture [recent significant decline in covid] hides the strength of the pandemic among unvaccinated people. For example, Washington state’s overall case rate is close to the U.S. average when cases are measured across the state’s entire population. Washington’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as it was in late January, near the peak of Covid infections.

But adjustments for vaccinations show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 69 percent higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.

Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state all have covid-19 case spikes among the unvaccinated, with adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate. The adjusted rates of Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are slightly lower."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp-top-table-main-0430b

2. More people/scientists are warming up to the theory that the covid came from the Wuhan lab. However, one of those theories is that the covid came from a certain cave in China and from bats, which were captured and taken to the Wuhan lab, and then the virus got loose. 3 Wuhan lab people had covid-like sickness last fall.

"“I’m convinced that what happened is that the virus was brought to a lab, they started to work with it…and some sloppy individual brought it out,” said Bernard Roizman, a University of Chicago virologist and one of the signers. “They can’t admit they did something so stupid.”

DANAOSHAN, China—On the outskirts of a village deep in the mountains of southwest China, a lone surveillance camera peers down toward a disused copper mine smothered in dense bamboo. As night approaches, bats swoop overhead.

In April 2012, six miners here fell sick with a mysterious illness after entering the mine to clear bat guano. Three of them died.

Chinese scientists from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were called in to investigate and, after taking samples from bats in the mine, identified several new coronaviruses.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that three WIV researchers became ill enough in November 2019 that they sought local hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report, though officials expressed differing views over the strength of the evidence. White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Monday the information came from a foreign entity, and that the U.S. needed additional information to independently verify it. In January, the State Department had said that several WIV researchers became sick in autumn 2019 “with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illness.”

The most detailed account of the miners’ illness comes in a master’s thesis by Li Xu from the No. 1 School of Clinical Medicine at Kunming Medical University in southwest China. He didn’t respond to requests for comment.

His thesis, supervised by the hospital’s emergency chief at the time, describes how a 42-year-old man surnamed Lü was admitted there on April 25, 2012.

Mr. Lü had been clearing bat guano at the mine, in China’s Mojiang region, since April 2 and had suffered from a fever and cough for two weeks. For the previous three days, he had trouble breathing and had begun coughing up rust-color mucus spotted with blood.

A CT scan revealed severe pneumonia, with the same lung markings now seen in many Covid-19 patients. Still, blood and other tests couldn’t pinpoint the cause.

Over the next week, five others working at the Mojiang mine, ages 30 to 63, were admitted to the same hospital. All had similar symptoms.

By mid-August 2012, three of them were dead. The suspicion was that it was a bat-borne SARS-like coronavirus, according to Mr. Li’s thesis. Chinese scientists, who were still searching for the origins of SARS, knew that bat caves in the area were a potential source, and they had been collecting samples from them.

Over the next year or so, WIV scientists entered the Mojiang mine and took fecal samples from 276 bats, identifying six different species, according to a research paper they published later."

[All 6 species had a type of covid.]

Wall St. Journal today.
 
It is nice to see some logical, scientifically based discussions dominating this discussion as opposed to highly emotional/politicized diatribes. It was clear from the initial WHO report of their investigation (if you can call it that), that there was a gap that could not be explained. It does seem given the lack of vectors backtracking from Wuhan that the strain from a different region of China several hundred miles away was likely either intentionally or inadvertently brought back to the lab as there were no other vectors that could be identified between the regions otherwise. This could be through a specimen or through a person such as an on the ground researcher. There have been concerns voiced by many in the scientific community (for years) with the risk associated with Chinese scientists seeking out these coronavirus variations in remote locations for research. Part of the concern was bringing back a strain that has the proper genetics to cross the barrier from animals to humans. Whether SARS-CoV-2 occurred naturally or was further modified at the lab, it will be difficult to prove with the lack of transparency from China. Regardless, the damage has been done. Hopefully, we can continue to learn more about the truth, though I'm not sure people will accept it, even if we find it.
 
timeline for lab leak theory becoming credible: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/25/timeline-how-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-suddenly-became-credible/
 
Back in Dec of 19 when this first was loose in Wuhan city the cable networks were showing guys is Hazmat suits spraying down the streets with what one would assume was disinfectant from medium sized tank trucks. Would they have reacted this way if they really thought it was from a guy eating contaminated food from a wet market? No one was spinning it politically at that point. I remember thinking they had to think it got loose from that lab with that response. The question of whether the virus was modified is another ball of wax altogether. No doubt in my mind where it spread from.
 
Hoops watcher said:
Back in Dec of 19 when this first was loose in Wuhan city the cable networks were showing guys is Hazmat suits spraying down the streets with what one would assume was disinfectant from medium sized tank trucks. Would they have reacted this way if they really thought it was from a guy eating contaminated food from a wet market? No one was spinning it politically at that point. I remember thinking they had to think it got loose from that lab with that response. The question of whether the virus was modified is another ball of wax altogether. No doubt in my mind where it spread from.

as someone who spent his adult life working in and running a research lab, an 'accident' (someone being stupid, or at best not trained enough) started to look more and more likely way back when the ccp started to obviously be stalling and covering something up. add in the mainlander proclivity towards a philosophy of "cha ba duo" or 'close enough' when it comes to work and cutting corners, and the manipulation of the w.h.o. team to involve paid suck-ups to the ccp, the lab leak it has started to seem as likely as coming from a bat cave in guangzhou. if the ccp were to suddenly find a 'cause' now, i'd still be suspect, because they lie about everything. it seems even more twisted knowing that they have profited from the whole thing. we really need to decouple sooner than later.
 
"3 Wuhan lab people had covid-like sickness last fall." This statement is false they got sick in fall of 2019.
 
On the positive side of things, a couple of newer studies indicate long term (perhaps lifetime) imunity for people who have had Covid and showing that previously infected people do not later transmit the disease. The CDC should recognize these studies and provide the same guidlines for vacinated people and those with prior infection.


https://abcnews.go.com/Health/south-korean-studies-suggest-antibodies-protect-covid-19/story?id=70312111

https://www.studyfinds.org/mild-covid-19-antibody-for-life/
 
PlayerRep said:
1. Studies are coming out now are showing that the rate of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths for those who are NOT vaccinated are almost the same as the rates in mid-January, when covid was raging in the U.S. Apparently, the decreased rates of covid in recent months are occurring because of the much lower rates in vaccinated people.

"that rosy picture [recent significant decline in covid] hides the strength of the pandemic among unvaccinated people. For example, Washington state’s overall case rate is close to the U.S. average when cases are measured across the state’s entire population. Washington’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as it was in late January, near the peak of Covid infections.

But adjustments for vaccinations show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 69 percent higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.

Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state all have covid-19 case spikes among the unvaccinated, with adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate. The adjusted rates of Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are slightly lower."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp-top-table-main-0430b

These numbers don't add up, or I'm missing something. Roughly half of Americans are vaccinated. Which means half are not. Yet new cases are down > 90% overall and deaths are down > 84% from their January peaks. If the rates in unvaccinated people are the same, how have cases and deaths and cases plummeted so much? Or are they saying the rates in unvaccinated people have increased to make up the difference?
 
argh! said:
Hoops watcher said:
Back in Dec of 19 when this first was loose in Wuhan city the cable networks were showing guys is Hazmat suits spraying down the streets with what one would assume was disinfectant from medium sized tank trucks. Would they have reacted this way if they really thought it was from a guy eating contaminated food from a wet market? No one was spinning it politically at that point. I remember thinking they had to think it got loose from that lab with that response. The question of whether the virus was modified is another ball of wax altogether. No doubt in my mind where it spread from.

as someone who spent his adult life working in and running a research lab, an 'accident' (someone being stupid, or at best not trained enough) started to look more and more likely way back when the ccp started to obviously be stalling and covering something up. add in the mainlander proclivity towards a philosophy of "cha ba duo" or 'close enough' when it comes to work and cutting corners, and the manipulation of the w.h.o. team to involve paid suck-ups to the ccp, the lab leak it has started to seem as likely as coming from a bat cave in guangzhou. if the ccp were to suddenly find a 'cause' now, i'd still be suspect, because they lie about everything. it seems even more twisted knowing that they have profited from the whole thing. we really need to decouple sooner than later.

Meanwhile, don't you dare refer to Taiwan as a country in passing if you're an actor from the US. I don't weigh in on China often, but, my goodness, their government is so insecure. If a Chinese actor called Alaska a beautiful country, I seriously doubt there would be any outrage.
 
CDAGRIZ said:
argh! said:
as someone who spent his adult life working in and running a research lab, an 'accident' (someone being stupid, or at best not trained enough) started to look more and more likely way back when the ccp started to obviously be stalling and covering something up. add in the mainlander proclivity towards a philosophy of "cha ba duo" or 'close enough' when it comes to work and cutting corners, and the manipulation of the w.h.o. team to involve paid suck-ups to the ccp, the lab leak it has started to seem as likely as coming from a bat cave in guangzhou. if the ccp were to suddenly find a 'cause' now, i'd still be suspect, because they lie about everything. it seems even more twisted knowing that they have profited from the whole thing. we really need to decouple sooner than later.

Meanwhile, don't you dare refer to Taiwan as a country in passing if you're an actor from the US. I don't weigh in on China often, but, my goodness, their government is so insecure. If a Chinese actor called Alaska a beautiful country, I seriously doubt there would be any outrage.

especially if you are a tough wrassler like cena! then taiwan isn't a country, even if you are debuting your new movie in the country of taiwan. i could go on and on, but it is a vastly different place than china, culturally and in countless other ways.
 
biden is ordering a more thorough look at the lab issue, but obviously isn't going to get anything but intentional obfuscation from the ccp: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-covid-china-virus-origins/2021/05/26/4f574a24-be44-11eb-9c90-731aff7d9a0d_story.html
 
CDAGRIZ said:
argh! said:
as someone who spent his adult life working in and running a research lab, an 'accident' (someone being stupid, or at best not trained enough) started to look more and more likely way back when the ccp started to obviously be stalling and covering something up. add in the mainlander proclivity towards a philosophy of "cha ba duo" or 'close enough' when it comes to work and cutting corners, and the manipulation of the w.h.o. team to involve paid suck-ups to the ccp, the lab leak it has started to seem as likely as coming from a bat cave in guangzhou. if the ccp were to suddenly find a 'cause' now, i'd still be suspect, because they lie about everything. it seems even more twisted knowing that they have profited from the whole thing. we really need to decouple sooner than later.

Meanwhile, don't you dare refer to Taiwan as a country in passing if you're an actor from the US. I don't weigh in on China often, but, my goodness, their government is so insecure. If a Chinese actor called Alaska a beautiful country, I seriously doubt there would be any outrage.

Saw Jihn "sellout" Cena today. What a douche.

But, how bout Texas? That might set some folks on fire...
 
SoldierGriz said:
CDAGRIZ said:
Meanwhile, don't you dare refer to Taiwan as a country in passing if you're an actor from the US. I don't weigh in on China often, but, my goodness, their government is so insecure. If a Chinese actor called Alaska a beautiful country, I seriously doubt there would be any outrage.

Saw Jihn "sellout" Cena today. What a douche.

But, how bout Texas? That might set some folks on fire...

If said by a foreign actor in an apolitical way? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I bet most wouldn't really care. Like when my MIL calls a hotdog a sandwich.
 
AZGrizFan said:
PlayerRep said:
1. Studies are coming out now are showing that the rate of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths for those who are NOT vaccinated are almost the same as the rates in mid-January, when covid was raging in the U.S. Apparently, the decreased rates of covid in recent months are occurring because of the much lower rates in vaccinated people.

"that rosy picture [recent significant decline in covid] hides the strength of the pandemic among unvaccinated people. For example, Washington state’s overall case rate is close to the U.S. average when cases are measured across the state’s entire population. Washington’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as it was in late January, near the peak of Covid infections.

But adjustments for vaccinations show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 69 percent higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.

Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state all have covid-19 case spikes among the unvaccinated, with adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate. The adjusted rates of Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are slightly lower."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp-top-table-main-0430b

These numbers don't add up, or I'm missing something. Roughly half of Americans are vaccinated. Which means half are not. Yet new cases are down > 90% overall and deaths are down > 84% from their January peaks. If the rates in unvaccinated people are the same, how have cases and deaths and cases plummeted so much? Or are they saying the rates in unvaccinated people have increased to make up the difference?

Just trust the science AZ. It’s been foolproof for the last year and a half.
 
AZGrizFan said:
PlayerRep said:
1. Studies are coming out now are showing that the rate of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths for those who are NOT vaccinated are almost the same as the rates in mid-January, when covid was raging in the U.S. Apparently, the decreased rates of covid in recent months are occurring because of the much lower rates in vaccinated people.

"that rosy picture [recent significant decline in covid] hides the strength of the pandemic among unvaccinated people. For example, Washington state’s overall case rate is close to the U.S. average when cases are measured across the state’s entire population. Washington’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as it was in late January, near the peak of Covid infections.

But adjustments for vaccinations show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 69 percent higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.

Maine, Colorado, Michigan and Washington state all have covid-19 case spikes among the unvaccinated, with adjusted rates about double the adjusted national rate. The adjusted rates of Minnesota, Oregon and Pennsylvania are slightly lower."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp-top-table-main-0430b

These numbers don't add up, or I'm missing something. Roughly half of Americans are vaccinated. Which means half are not. Yet new cases are down > 90% overall and deaths are down > 84% from their January peaks. If the rates in unvaccinated people are the same, how have cases and deaths and cases plummeted so much? Or are they saying the rates in unvaccinated people have increased to make up the difference?

The studies are of certain areas and certain states, not of the whole U.S.

In most studies, the rates for non-vaccinated have also come down some.

There may also be some differences because of the assumptions you made, and because of what the studies looked at, in terms of age groups. Note that young kids can't be vaccinated yet, and teens are still in the early agues of vaccinations.

But perhaps a good question, and I know only what was in the article, the heart of which I provided in quotes.
 
"More than half of Missoula County's eligible population has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, local health department officials said Wednesday.

[Missoula country leads the state for the percentage of residents who have received a vaccination.]

At a morning press conference, the county reported 52.3% of individuals age 12 or older are fully vaccinated and 61.1% have had at least one dose of the vaccine.

COVID-19 cases have been highest in the 20 to 29 age group nearly every week since the beginning of January, according to county data.

As of Wednesday, nearly 44% of the 20 to 29 age group has had at least one vaccine dose. Comparatively, the percent of those between 30 to 59 who have received at least one dose is in the low 60s.

In the 12 to 19 age group, 25.01% have had at least one dose. The health department has pushed for that group to get vaccinated in recent weeks following the approval of the Pfizer shot for children 12 and older.

https://missoulian.com/news/more-than-half-of-eligible-missoulians-vaccinated/article_a6513838-24b7-5d21-9946-2949e04c1820.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
 
PlayerRep said:
AZGrizFan said:
These numbers don't add up, or I'm missing something. Roughly half of Americans are vaccinated. Which means half are not. Yet new cases are down > 90% overall and deaths are down > 84% from their January peaks. If the rates in unvaccinated people are the same, how have cases and deaths and cases plummeted so much? Or are they saying the rates in unvaccinated people have increased to make up the difference?

The studies are of certain areas and certain states, not of the whole U.S.

In most studies, the rates for non-vaccinated have also come down some.

There may also be some differences because of the assumptions you made, and because of what the studies looked at, in terms of age groups. Note that young kids can't be vaccinated yet, and teens are still in the early agues of vaccinations.

But perhaps a good question, and I know only what was in the article, the heart of which I provided in quotes.

Interestingly, every state but ONE that’s called out in their report is a blue state. coincidence?
 
argh! said:
Hoops watcher said:
Back in Dec of 19 when this first was loose in Wuhan city the cable networks were showing guys is Hazmat suits spraying down the streets with what one would assume was disinfectant from medium sized tank trucks. Would they have reacted this way if they really thought it was from a guy eating contaminated food from a wet market? No one was spinning it politically at that point. I remember thinking they had to think it got loose from that lab with that response. The question of whether the virus was modified is another ball of wax altogether. No doubt in my mind where it spread from.

as someone who spent his adult life working in and running a research lab, an 'accident' (someone being stupid, or at best not trained enough) started to look more and more likely way back when the ccp started to obviously be stalling and covering something up. add in the mainlander proclivity towards a philosophy of "cha ba duo" or 'close enough' when it comes to work and cutting corners, and the manipulation of the w.h.o. team to involve paid suck-ups to the ccp, the lab leak it has started to seem as likely as coming from a bat cave in guangzhou. if the ccp were to suddenly find a 'cause' now, i'd still be suspect, because they lie about everything. it seems even more twisted knowing that they have profited from the whole thing. we really need to decouple sooner than later.

Yeah, the ccp lying and obfuscating to beat the band heightened my bs detector. I think you are correct that as long as Xi and his crowd control the party we have no choice to at least keep them at arm's length and be extremely suspicious. and some economic interests here are not going to like it. Let's face it, no rational person can look at a ccp led China as any kind of friend to us.
 
Accident? China, at last count, had 1.42 Billion people. Perhaps they made a dry run and purposefully sacrificed a couple million of their own, just to gauge the effect of this created/manipulated virus on the world, specifically the response of the U.S. Now, they are down to 1.418 Billion people. Coincidence? Food for thought.
 
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