• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

Recruiting

citygriz

Well-known member
Back in 2009, the T'Wovles needed a point guard. They had picks at five and six in the draft and took Ricky Rubio from Spain and Jonny Flynn from Syracuse. So they missed a guy who was taken seventh, Steph Curry. Did I say they needed a point guard? They also missed out on another guy who fell to #17 that year, Jrue Holiday. Didn't he just win a championship with the Bucks?

So it is with recruiting in college. You just never know how things are going to work out--except to say, it's as crucially as important to your program as the draft is for an NBA franchise.

When we got Mack Anderson out of Bozeman, one Montana high school coach said he was the best talent he'd seen coming out of Montana, and that included Josh Huestis who went to Stanford and then played in the NBA. (I cannot remember that coach's name.) Mack has been a solid player for us but not at the Josh Huestis level, for sure.

I loved the Vazquez-DCH-Owens class when it was announced, even more than the next Bannan-Beasley-Whitney class. And yet Bannan and Beasley are becoming stars, and Whitney has been productive since his first game at USC. Meanwhile the Vazquez--DCH-Owens class has all but disappeared. (And by the way, what's up with Owens? Is he hurt?)

We all had high hopes for the three recent transfers, Martin, Blakney and Parker. Okay, Parker has lived up to his hype; Martin has been solid but not all Big Sky potential; Blakney has been a washout so far.

And way too early to tell what's in the pipeline: Wetzel, Soloman and Braggs, or the incoming recruits, Isaiah Kerr, Jaxon Nap and Rhett Reynolds. If we've got some stars among that group, this program will be in good shape thanks to the Bannan-Beasley-Whitney group.

But more than fair to say at this point that four of our upperclassmen--Owens, Vazquez, DCH and Blakey--have been disappointing this season. They're the reason we're not in our customary position at the top of the BIg Sky.
 
citay said:
Back in 2009, the T'Wovles needed a point guard. They had picks at five and six in the draft and took Ricky Rubio from Spain and Jonny Flynn from Syracuse. So they missed a guy who was taken seventh, Steph Curry. Did I say they needed a point guard? They also missed out on another guy who fell to #17 that year, Jrue Holiday. Didn't he just win a championship with the Bucks?

So it is with recruiting in college. You just never know how things are going to work out--except to say, it's as crucially as important to your program as the draft is for an NBA franchise.

When we got Mack Anderson out of Bozeman, one Montana high school coach said he was the best talent he'd seen coming out of Montana, and that included Josh Huestis who went to Stanford and then played in the NBA. (I cannot remember that coach's name.) Mack has been a solid player for us but not at the Josh Huestis level, for sure.

I loved the Vazquez-DCH-Owens class when it was announced, even more than the next Bannan-Beasley-Whitney class. And yet Bannan and Beasley are becoming stars, and Whitney has been productive since his first game at USC. Meanwhile the Vazquez--DCH-Owens class has all but disappeared. (And by the way, what's up with Owens? Is he hurt?)

We all had high hopes for the three recent transfers, Martin, Blakney and Parker. Okay, Parker has lived up to his hype; Martin has been solid but not all Big Sky potential; Blakney has been a washout so far.

And way too early to tell what's in the pipeline: Wetzel, Soloman and Braggs, or the incoming recruits, Isaiah Kerr, Jaxon Nap and Rhett Reynolds. If we've got some stars among that group, this program will be in good shape thanks to the Bannan-Beasley-Whitney group.

But more than fair to say at this point that four of our upperclassmen--Owens, Vazquez, DCH and Blakey--have been disappointing this season. They're the reason we're not in our customary position at the top of the BIg Sky.

In defense of Blakney, he has the injury bug. His shoulder pops out at the slightest bump. He wore a cast on his wrist/thumb from after Christmas break until recently.
 
maroonandsilver said:
citay said:
Back in 2009, the T'Wovles needed a point guard. They had picks at five and six in the draft and took Ricky Rubio from Spain and Jonny Flynn from Syracuse. So they missed a guy who was taken seventh, Steph Curry. Did I say they needed a point guard? They also missed out on another guy who fell to #17 that year, Jrue Holiday. Didn't he just win a championship with the Bucks?

So it is with recruiting in college. You just never know how things are going to work out--except to say, it's as crucially as important to your program as the draft is for an NBA franchise.

When we got Mack Anderson out of Bozeman, one Montana high school coach said he was the best talent he'd seen coming out of Montana, and that included Josh Huestis who went to Stanford and then played in the NBA. (I cannot remember that coach's name.) Mack has been a solid player for us but not at the Josh Huestis level, for sure.

I loved the Vazquez-DCH-Owens class when it was announced, even more than the next Bannan-Beasley-Whitney class. And yet Bannan and Beasley are becoming stars, and Whitney has been productive since his first game at USC. Meanwhile the Vazquez--DCH-Owens class has all but disappeared. (And by the way, what's up with Owens? Is he hurt?)

We all had high hopes for the three recent transfers, Martin, Blakney and Parker. Okay, Parker has lived up to his hype; Martin has been solid but not all Big Sky potential; Blakney has been a washout so far.

And way too early to tell what's in the pipeline: Wetzel, Soloman and Braggs, or the incoming recruits, Isaiah Kerr, Jaxon Nap and Rhett Reynolds. If we've got some stars among that group, this program will be in good shape thanks to the Bannan-Beasley-Whitney group.

But more than fair to say at this point that four of our upperclassmen--Owens, Vazquez, DCH and Blakey--have been disappointing this season. They're the reason we're not in our customary position at the top of the BIg Sky.


In defense of Blakney, he has the injury bug. His shoulder pops out at the slightest bump. He wore a cast on his wrist/thumb from after Christmas break until recently.

I agree that Blakney has just had some bad luck. DCH is starting and is being asked to do a lot of things he probably shouldn't be doing (such as guarding posts). I still think Blakney, Owens and Vazquez play a bigger role this season before its all said and done. However, I can understand why people had higher hopes for them.

To me it was the Steadman/Gaskin/Henderson/Satterwhite signings that did far more damage than any current class (and it's not really close in my opinion). Four transfers and literally you can argue you got nothing for them. Steadman and Gaskin essentially took up two scholarship for two years (redshirts). Henderson, I guess you can take a chance on developing a big like that, but he was also on scholarship for 2.5 years (I believe). That's 6.5 total years spent on 3 scholarships. 7.5 years on 4 scholarships if you count Satterwhite. As Citay said, recruiting is like the NBA Draft and a lot of the time, you just never know. However, in theory, it should be easier to hit on transfers because for the most part you have seen them play in D-1 games. It would be hard for any program to recover from batting zero percent on so many transfers in such a short time. Those are scholarships that could have gone to additional freshman or other multi-year transfers that in theory are still with the program and either producing or showing potential for a promising future. And I still believe all of these were good signings, just sometimes as they say - "S*** happens"
 
GrizBall said:
maroonandsilver said:
In defense of Blakney, he has the injury bug. His shoulder pops out at the slightest bump. He wore a cast on his wrist/thumb from after Christmas break until recently.

I agree that Blakney has just had some bad luck. DCH is starting and is being asked to do a lot of things he probably shouldn't be doing (such as guarding posts). I still think Blakney, Owens and Vazquez play a bigger role this season before its all said and done. However, I can understand why people had higher hopes for them.

To me it was the Steadman/Gaskin/Henderson/Satterwhite signings that did far more damage than any current class (and it's not really close in my opinion). Four transfers and literally you can argue you got nothing for them. Steadman and Gaskin essentially took up two scholarship for two years (redshirts). Henderson, I guess you can take a chance on developing a big like that, but he was also on scholarship for 2.5 years (I believe). That's 6.5 total years spent on 3 scholarships. 7.5 years on 4 scholarships if you count Satterwhite. As Citay said, recruiting is like the NBA Draft and a lot of the time, you just never know. However, in theory, it should be easier to hit on transfers because for the most part you have seen them play in D-1 games. It would be hard for any program to recover from batting zero percent on so many transfers in such a short time. Those are scholarships that could have gone to additional freshman or other multi-year transfers that in theory are still with the program and either producing or showing potential for a promising future. And I still believe all of these were good signings, just sometimes as they say - "S*** happens"

And then the S*** rolls down hill.

Good points.
 
I was told that someone at the Roundball luncheon this week asked DeCuire about Owens and playing time. DeCuire said its tough to find him minutes and the team is better when he is not on the floor. DeCuire says he prefers for 7 guys to get the majority of playing time.
Given his preference, which I think makes sense for a mid major, it is reasonable that Owens and Vasquez have seen very limited time this year except when foul trouble dictates.
Anyone able to confirm this?
 
GrizSteve said:
I was told that someone at the Roundball luncheon this week asked DeCuire about Owens and playing time. DeCuire said its tough to find him minutes and the team is better when he is not on the floor. DeCuire says he prefers for 7 guys to get the majority of playing time.
Given his preference, which I think makes sense for a mid major, it is reasonable that Owens and Vasquez have seen very limited time this year except when foul trouble dictates.
Anyone able to confirm this?

This is disappointing on both sides. Owens is capable of being a Swiss Army Knife on offense and defense. I'm not sure if he's aware of his potential ceiling. He just can't find consistency. I wish DeCuire would have faith in a 9 to 10 man rotation, especially when the talent indicates it as a great possibility.

I'd challenge Owens to step out of his comfort zone. I'd challenge myself as a coach, to step out of the 7 man comfort zone, as well.
 
What is interesting to me, is there are a lot of coaches who prescribe to the short bench and rotation philosophy. TDC has employed it since he got here and rarely plays more than 7-8 players in a game. For the most part this type of calculus has led to impressive level of success especially when you consider that he can get nearly an infinite combo of those 7 players to coexist on the floor in weird personnel combinations.

He's had guys who have been able to do that (Pridgett being maybe the best example of his multi-tool principle) with maybe the exception being last year. Owen's problem is that while he is a multi-tool, he isn't a great combo with Bannan on the floor. Both of them are stretch 4's but neither is ideally suited to play the anchor post player especially defensively.

I'd almost ask the question, what would you have Owens or TDC do? They clearly aren't great defensively when both are on the floor and it showed in the Cat-Griz game two weeks ago. My limited understanding of the situation is that Owens understands, and doesn't appear that it is altering his attitude on the bench. The deeper issue and concern from an offensive functionality standpoint that outside of Bannan, there is narry a post that really is a good mix of what TDC appears to want offensively and defensively. I think this is why we've seen more and more of undersized DCH playing in the post in recent weeks because at least he can provide some resistance down low defensively when Anderson is off the floor. Something that Owens has struggled with and the injuries that Blakney has suffered this year.

I don't think TDC is lying when he says that Owens is a bit of an oil-water fit this winter, but I struggle as to why this team especially under TDC isn't capable of having different offensive and defensive personalities. Owens should be an asset off the bench, especially with all the experience he has, but has largely been a non-factor this year. I was under the illusion that we could have a rotation of 9 or 10 players with no effective drop-off. However it is clear that hasn't been the case as TDC has run out in most games the 8 guys he trusts the most. Depth was a strength I saw coming into the year as a way to help over come some of its more glaring weaknesses, and it just hasn't been the case. That Vasquez and Owens have been relegated to third tier minutes guys says a ton about the state of the team.
 
So the "7" must be Whitney, Beasley, Parker, Bannan, DCH, Martin and Anderson. And the team has two others Owens and Vazquez who were in the "7" last year and not so this year. And there are 12 (or 13 ) full rides on the bball team each year.

But "taking a flyer" on one or two Montana kids is unacceptable among those 5 (or 6) that have to earn their way to playing time...or maybe lose it all from one year to the next?
 
Montana has had maybe a dozen upper level basketball players over the last decade. Of those, a good number of them (besides Worster and Heustis) are by talent back bench kids, not stars. I really don't want to get into the ZDK conversation again, but there is such a shocking chasm between high level Montana/Idaho kids and some of the kids you see in Seattle, Portland, SF and LA. After watching a ton of Cali basketball the last five years, I can say this, there are maybe a handful of Montana kids that could play on some of those HS without a significant adjustment period.

I think in some ways this was long a principal debate about whether anyone outside of Montana or MSU would ever recruit quit actively 6man or 8man kids from Montana for football. Do you have the ability to extend a scholarship to a kid that might not pan out until after year 2 or 3? Because basketball is a scholarship limited sport, and a limited body count sport you do have to make some real conscious decisions on how to spend your limited capital.

There haven't been a lot of scholarship worth kids who Travis has felt worthy of spending those finite resources on in Montana since he arrive almost 10 years ago. A lot of things got in the way as to why Worster, Germer, and Evans didn't merit a scholarship but the kid from Shelby, Anderson and the Big Sky kid. The point is, do you have the type of time to spend on a kid who at best might be a role player just because he's a Montana kid.

The calculus as I see it, is that aside from some misses on some transfer types, TDC's HS recruiting should be largely seen as a success and not as a failure because he isn't holding scholarships for Montana kids.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
Montana has had maybe a dozen upper level basketball players over the last decade. Of those, a good number of them (besides Worster and Heustis) are by talent back bench kids, not stars. I really don't want to get into the ZDK conversation again, but there is such a shocking chasm between high level Montana/Idaho kids and some of the kids you see in Seattle, Portland, SF and LA. After watching a ton of Cali basketball the last five years, I can say this, there are maybe a handful of Montana kids that could play on some of those HS without a significant adjustment period.

I think in some ways this was long a principal debate about whether anyone outside of Montana or MSU would ever recruit quit actively 6man or 8man kids from Montana for football. Do you have the ability to extend a scholarship to a kid that might not pan out until after year 2 or 3? Because basketball is a scholarship limited sport, and a limited body count sport you do have to make some real conscious decisions on how to spend your limited capital.

There haven't been a lot of scholarship worth kids who Travis has felt worthy of spending those finite resources on in Montana since he arrive almost 10 years ago. A lot of things got in the way as to why Worster, Germer, and Evans didn't merit a scholarship but the kid from Shelby, Anderson and the Big Sky kid. The point is, do you have the type of time to spend on a kid who at best might be a role player just because he's a Montana kid.

The calculus as I see it, is that aside from some misses on some transfer types, TDC's HS recruiting should be largely seen as a success and not as a failure because he isn't holding scholarships for Montana kids.

So we should all be excited about the future contributions of Freddie III, Cooper Kriegmont, John Solomon, Jack Wetzel, and Johnny Bragss because they will all "pan out" for sure! And Owens and Vazquez will be "back"! because they're from California!

Go back to the last 3 or 4 on the bench for the past 10+ years and find more than 3 or 4 that ever contributed much in their careers. Haven't t seen a Kevin Criswell, Kirk Walker, Roger Fasting, Ryan Dick or Matt Kempfert emerge over the past 10.....those 5 all started out near the end of the bench and later started/contributed a bunch on good teams. Maybe these poor little Montana kids who aren't part of "Cali ball" at age 12 or 13 are able to improve a bunch once they get to college. Have Owens and Vazquez? What about Steadman? Satterwhite? The Oregon domestic abuser? The Romanian kid? Couple of them were here last year and I don't even remember their names.
 
Mousegriz said:
So we should all be excited about the future contributions of Freddie III, Cooper Kriegmont, John Solomon, Jack Wetzel, and Johnny Bragss

This is what, two scholarship players...not sure this makes your point about doling out scholarships that could be used for Montana kids. And those 2 are true freshman that haven't seen floor time yet, but you want to discount their spot on the team.
 
Mousegriz said:
Grizfan-24 said:
Montana has had maybe a dozen upper level basketball players over the last decade. Of those, a good number of them (besides Worster and Heustis) are by talent back bench kids, not stars. I really don't want to get into the ZDK conversation again, but there is such a shocking chasm between high level Montana/Idaho kids and some of the kids you see in Seattle, Portland, SF and LA. After watching a ton of Cali basketball the last five years, I can say this, there are maybe a handful of Montana kids that could play on some of those HS without a significant adjustment period.

I think in some ways this was long a principal debate about whether anyone outside of Montana or MSU would ever recruit quit actively 6man or 8man kids from Montana for football. Do you have the ability to extend a scholarship to a kid that might not pan out until after year 2 or 3? Because basketball is a scholarship limited sport, and a limited body count sport you do have to make some real conscious decisions on how to spend your limited capital.

There haven't been a lot of scholarship worth kids who Travis has felt worthy of spending those finite resources on in Montana since he arrive almost 10 years ago. A lot of things got in the way as to why Worster, Germer, and Evans didn't merit a scholarship but the kid from Shelby, Anderson and the Big Sky kid. The point is, do you have the type of time to spend on a kid who at best might be a role player just because he's a Montana kid.

The calculus as I see it, is that aside from some misses on some transfer types, TDC's HS recruiting should be largely seen as a success and not as a failure because he isn't holding scholarships for Montana kids.

So we should all be excited about the future contributions of Freddie III, Cooper Kriegmont, John Solomon, Jack Wetzel, and Johnny Bragss because they will all "pan out" for sure! And Owens and Vazquez will be "back"! because they're from California!

Go back to the last 3 or 4 on the bench for the past 10+ years and find more than 3 or 4 that ever contributed much in their careers. Haven't t seen a Kevin Criswell, Kirk Walker, Roger Fasting, Ryan Dick or Matt Kempfert emerge over the past 10.....those 5 all started out near the end of the bench and later started/contributed a bunch on good teams. Maybe these poor little Montana kids who aren't part of "Cali ball" at age 12 or 13 are able to improve a bunch once they get to college. Have Owens and Vazquez? What about Steadman? Satterwhite? The Oregon domestic abuser? The Romanian kid? Couple of them were here last year and I don't even remember their names.

So Mouse. Be specific. Name names. During the past seven years that DeCuire has been the head coach, which Montana players should he have recruited that he did not recruit?
 
citay said:
Mousegriz said:
So we should all be excited about the future contributions of Freddie III, Cooper Kriegmont, John Solomon, Jack Wetzel, and Johnny Bragss because they will all "pan out" for sure! And Owens and Vazquez will be "back"! because they're from California!

Go back to the last 3 or 4 on the bench for the past 10+ years and find more than 3 or 4 that ever contributed much in their careers. Haven't t seen a Kevin Criswell, Kirk Walker, Roger Fasting, Ryan Dick or Matt Kempfert emerge over the past 10.....those 5 all started out near the end of the bench and later started/contributed a bunch on good teams. Maybe these poor little Montana kids who aren't part of "Cali ball" at age 12 or 13 are able to improve a bunch once they get to college. Have Owens and Vazquez? What about Steadman? Satterwhite? The Oregon domestic abuser? The Romanian kid? Couple of them were here last year and I don't even remember their names.

So Mouse. Be specific. Name names. During the past seven years that DeCuire has been the head coach, which Montana players should he have recruited that he did not recruit?

Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
So Mouse. Be specific. Name names. During the past seven years that DeCuire has been the head coach, which Montana players should he have recruited that he did not recruit?

Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!

There also two advantages which Montana players have over out-of-state players. 1) Their scholarships cost the university much less. 2) Many fans of the Griz love seeing home state kids playing on our team. I think it helps attendance.
 
Mousegriz said:
Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!

Well, I know for certain that UM did recruit multiple of the players that you named. I have zero issue with how TD has recruited Montana.
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
So Mouse. Be specific. Name names. During the past seven years that DeCuire has been the head coach, which Montana players should he have recruited that he did not recruit?

Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!

Darko was not a D1 player out of high school. Didn't he play on Western's JV team his first year? Kudos to him for his development and growth over the years and becoming a phenomenal player. Rayquan was committed to Rocky out of high school, after he blew up at juco there was absolutely no chance the Griz get him. Howard and Wyman got D1 looks but both aren't playing at the D1 level right now. I think Howard looked great against us but for whatever reason has not been able to stick at 2 D1 schools. Malatare plays at Eastern Oregon, an NAIA school.

There are definitely some kids capable of playing at the Big Sky level in MT. A huge problem is the lack of consistent high quality competition within the state, and a lack of exposure against top level comp. Most MT guys are playing 3 sports, or not playing on competitive AAU teams. Thats changing with Idaho Select. But if a coach only gets to see one kid play against Big Sky, compared to the out of state kid playing 100 more games a year against better competition, who do you think he's going to choose?

All of the kids you named as players that should have gotten recruited outside Rayquan aren't at the D1 level. Could they have been? Darko yes, Wyman yes, Howard yes, Wyman probably yes. It's easy to blame TD's recruiting, but nobody else recruited these guys either. Why didn't all these guys get offers from the Cats, Idaho, Idaho State, or any other regional school? I think we should be praising their development at the NAIA/D2 level (outside of Rayquan) and the fact that they achieved their potential more so than blaming DeCuire for not picking a needle out of a haystack, especially when almost every other D1 coach came to the same conclusion.
 
LittleBear said:
Mousegriz said:
Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!

Darko was not a D1 player out of high school. Didn't he play on Western's JV team his first year? Kudos to him for his development and growth over the years and becoming a phenomenal player. Rayquan was committed to Rocky out of high school, after he blew up at juco there was absolutely no chance the Griz get him. Howard and Wyman got D1 looks but both aren't playing at the D1 level right now. I think Howard looked great against us but for whatever reason has not been able to stick at 2 D1 schools. Malatare plays at Eastern Oregon, an NAIA school.

There are definitely some kids capable of playing at the Big Sky level in MT. A huge problem is the lack of consistent high quality competition within the state, and a lack of exposure against top level comp. Most MT guys are playing 3 sports, or not playing on competitive AAU teams. Thats changing with Idaho Select. But if a coach only gets to see one kid play against Big Sky, compared to the out of state kid playing 100 more games a year against better competition, who do you think he's going to choose?

All of the kids you named as players that should have gotten recruited outside Rayquan aren't at the D1 level. Could they have been? Darko yes, Wyman yes, Howard yes, Wyman probably yes. It's easy to blame TD's recruiting, but nobody else recruited these guys either. Why didn't all these guys get offers from the Cats, Idaho, Idaho State, or any other regional school? I think we should be praising their development at the NAIA/D2 level (outside of Rayquan) and the fact that they achieved their potential more so than blaming DeCuire for not picking a needle out of a haystack, especially when almost every other D1 coach came to the same conclusion.

Considering the considerable advantage of hindsight and still picking a Montana team that would get slaughtered by the kids who were actually recruited says all there needs to be said. Nice call on this, citay. Reality is hard for some.

Let's review Mouse's repetitive posts. He says (a) TD can't recruit worth beans, (b) he doesn't develop players - any of them - ever, (c) his schemes and coaching are a joke, and (d) he only wants small kids and his teams can't rebound, can't shoot, and turn the ball over too much. One would expect the worst team in the nation. Instead, we have the most successful BSC program the past 7 years. Weber is the only one even remotely close, and he has pretty-much owned them.

So, are mouse, pickle, and a few others "telling the hard truth" or insufferable trolls. I suppose the answer is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
So Mouse. Be specific. Name names. During the past seven years that DeCuire has been the head coach, which Montana players should he have recruited that he did not recruit?

Darko Kelly, Andy Garland (more than 7 years sorry), Matt Wyman, Rayquan Evans (key in recent FSU victory over Duke). The younger Howard (he helped ND beat Griz this year...now back at MSU Billings). I hear younger Wyman at GF last year was very good player like his brother. No names...but at least one guy for Tech who beat the Griz last year in Missoula. There's a few.

Carroll thinks they have the best MT kid signed "Koch" from Capital....6'3" or 6'4" shoots the 3 dunked 7 times vs. Big Sky and the ONE MT kid that's somehow got a preferred walk on to UM. I'm sure I'm missing several. Are any "can't miss"? No...but Griz have missed on their share from everywhere but MT. You were high on the Arlee kid at one time.....see he's still playing ball and doing pretty well. Is Steadman, Satterwhite, Henderson (wasn't he on the team last year?), Gaskin (googled up "Griz Domestic abuse" and there was his name!), the Romanian? Do more fans come to games if Arlee kid is on bench instead of Freddy III or Solomon or Kriegmont or Wetzel?

The list of names of "Cali ball type guys" who DID get schollies here and flamed out in the past two to three years is almost longer!

Three points:
--First, the guys who didn't flame out: Oguine, Rorie, Pridgett, Vazquez, Beasley and Whitney. Montana has not produced that level of talent the past seven years, period, full stop. To concentrate only on the guys who did flame out is to distort DeCuire's record. And don't forget: Distortion is the basis of propaganda.
--Second, give DeCuire credit for bringing back two Montana kids, Kendal Manuel and Jared Samuelson.
--Finally, the the biggest problem in the DeCuire era has been recruiting/developing/keeping post players. Krslovic and Breunig were Tinkle recruits. The DeCuire list: Alphonso Anderson, Karl Nicholas, Kelby Kramer, Admir Besovic, Yagizhan Selcuk, Darius Henderson, Michael Steadman and now, apparently, Kyle Owens, who is completely out of the rotation. For a coach who is known for graduating kids, that is quite a long list of washouts--though praise for Akoh, Anderson and Bannan.
 
Steadman seems to be starting now for UMass. I couldn't find anything on Satterwhite. I think he should have had an extra covid year but don't know. Gaskins has started 15 of 19 games for City College SF, is the leading scorer with 16,8, and is shooting 54% and 46.5%. Leading in assists and steals, and has 1.6 assist to TO ratio. Falls has started 1 of 16 games at CS-San Bernardino. Playing 20 minutes (6th on team) and averaging 4.3 points. Shooting 44.5%. Not taking many 3's and not making many.

The Glengive girl/frosh, who was let-go by the LG, started the first 8 or so games at UT-Chattanooga, but isn't starting now and minutes have gone way down. Momberg, after start the first game of season for Western and then going home for almost 2 weeks due to a death in family, is still coming off bench, but seems to be gaining minutes now. Last night, had 19 minutes off bench and scored 10, on 4-5 and 2-3 shooting. 3 rebounds, 2 assists and no TO..
 
astutegriz said:
LittleBear said:
Darko was not a D1 player out of high school. Didn't he play on Western's JV team his first year? Kudos to him for his development and growth over the years and becoming a phenomenal player. Rayquan was committed to Rocky out of high school, after he blew up at juco there was absolutely no chance the Griz get him. Howard and Wyman got D1 looks but both aren't playing at the D1 level right now. I think Howard looked great against us but for whatever reason has not been able to stick at 2 D1 schools. Malatare plays at Eastern Oregon, an NAIA school.

There are definitely some kids capable of playing at the Big Sky level in MT. A huge problem is the lack of consistent high quality competition within the state, and a lack of exposure against top level comp. Most MT guys are playing 3 sports, or not playing on competitive AAU teams. Thats changing with Idaho Select. But if a coach only gets to see one kid play against Big Sky, compared to the out of state kid playing 100 more games a year against better competition, who do you think he's going to choose?

All of the kids you named as players that should have gotten recruited outside Rayquan aren't at the D1 level. Could they have been? Darko yes, Wyman yes, Howard yes, Wyman probably yes. It's easy to blame TD's recruiting, but nobody else recruited these guys either. Why didn't all these guys get offers from the Cats, Idaho, Idaho State, or any other regional school? I think we should be praising their development at the NAIA/D2 level (outside of Rayquan) and the fact that they achieved their potential more so than blaming DeCuire for not picking a needle out of a haystack, especially when almost every other D1 coach came to the same conclusion.

Considering the considerable advantage of hindsight and still picking a Montana team that would get slaughtered by the kids who were actually recruited says all there needs to be said. Nice call on this, citay. Reality is hard for some.

Let's review Mouse's repetitive posts. He says (a) TD can't recruit worth beans, (b) he doesn't develop players - any of them - ever, (c) his schemes and coaching are a joke, and (d) he only wants small kids and his teams can't rebound, can't shoot, and turn the ball over too much. One would expect the worst team in the nation. Instead, we have the most successful BSC program the past 7 years. Weber is the only one even remotely close, and he has pretty-much owned them.

So, are mouse, pickle, and a few others "telling the hard truth" or insufferable trolls. I suppose the answer is in the eye of the beholder.

Besides your screen name being a pipe dream, wanna explain how having a different opinion than you makes any of us insufferable trolls??? You must be a Democrat.
 
Back
Top