R1 Research Universities

Of the 2832 four-year schools of higher education in the United States, only 146 attain a rating of R1, meaning they are doctoral Universities engaged in "very high research activity." Montana recently joined the list; Montana State was already on it. These are the only two schools in the Big Sky Conference to attain that rating.

Schools in the MWC with that rating: Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV, Nevada, Utah State and Hawaii. Surprisingly, Wyoming is not on that list, nor are San Jose State, San Diego State, Boise State, Fresno State and the Air Force Academy.

Why do I bring this up? Water seeks its own level. And that level to me should be the MWC.

Do you believe there are people at UofM or msu that can make that happen? I've been generally sarcastic on here these last few weeks but I am asking this seriously.

citay said:

Of the 2832 four-year schools of higher education in the United States, only 146 attain a rating of R1, meaning they are doctoral Universities engaged in "very high research activity." Montana recently joined the list; Montana State was already on it. These are the only two schools in the Big Sky Conference to attain that rating.

Schools in the MWC with that rating: Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV, Nevada, Utah State and Hawaii. Surprisingly, Wyoming is not on that list, nor are San Jose State, San Diego State, Boise State, Fresno State and the Air Force Academy.

Why do I bring this up? Water seeks its own level. And that level to me should be the MWC.

Click to expand...

I believe this is an imporntant post, for several reasons, and deserves continued focus from eGriz members supportive -- not only of all sports, but of academic and broader cultural aspects -- of this institution. I'm being purposefully vague here, but I have done some extensive research on this and related issues and am eager to share if others are willing to pursue this (whether or not it directly involves the MWC).

I propose this be a pinned topic. This needs the advocacy of sports-oriented supporters of this esteemed institution.

grizzlyjournal said:

citay said:

Of the 2832 four-year schools of higher education in the United States, only 146 attain a rating of R1, meaning they are doctoral Universities engaged in "very high research activity." Montana recently joined the list; Montana State was already on it. These are the only two schools in the Big Sky Conference to attain that rating.

Schools in the MWC with that rating: Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV, Nevada, Utah State and Hawaii. Surprisingly, Wyoming is not on that list, nor are San Jose State, San Diego State, Boise State, Fresno State and the Air Force Academy.

Why do I bring this up? Water seeks its own level. And that level to me should be the MWC.

Click to expand...

I believe this is an imporntant post, for several reasons, and deserves continued focus from eGriz members supportive -- not only of all sports, but of academic and broader cultural aspects -- of this institution. I'm being purposefully vague here, but I have done some extensive research on this and related issues and am eager to share if others are willing to pursue this (whether or not it directly involves the MWC).

I propose this be a pinned topic. This needs the advocacy of sports-oriented supporters of this esteemed institution.

Click to expand...

Something similar was brought up on the football board a couple weeks ago.

https://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=90045

This article in today's 406mtsports has some connection to this thread.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/montana-grizzlies-are-staying-in-the-big-sky-for-now-and-ad-kent-haslam-explains/article_539a1396-77f2-11ed-b132-9b9ce3fd41bc.html

grizzlyjournal said:

This article in today's 406mtsports has some connection to this thread.

https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/university-of-montana/montana-grizzlies-are-staying-in-the-big-sky-for-now-and-ad-kent-haslam-explains/article_539a1396-77f2-11ed-b132-9b9ce3fd41bc.html

Click to expand...

Some of those quotes at the end... whew... Relying on the NCAA and FCS to adjust seems silly, and to say that this is a healthy d1 football league while there has been ONE dominant team the last decade and the playoff attendance is abysmal is something else.

With that said I have no idea what to do. I don't think staying put is going to be viable, and I think moving up causes just as many concerns. Hopefully Haslam is just saying stuff publicly and working a bit harder behind closed doors to figure this out.

It looks like the UC Board of Regents has approved UCLA to the Big Ten. Hopefully, the Pac will backfill from the MWC and that opens up a spot for the Griz and Cats. Question is, would UM and MSU accept if offered? Does the 10 schools leaving FCS to the WAC and their aspirations of going FBS change anything for UM and MSU in their decision making process?

Which two MWC schools would go to the PAC 12?

citay said:

Which two MWC schools would go to the PAC 12?

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I’d guess Boise St and Colorado St. The addition of CSU would add a rivalry that’s being lost by the departure of USC/UCLA. Boise St would add a competitive football team with some “intriguing” history.

citay said:

Which two MWC schools would go to the PAC 12?

Click to expand...

San Diego State is widely believed to be going to the PAC. Hopefully, they take another, maybe Fresno. Personally, I would love to see Boise and their special tv deal go. I don't think they have the academics to be chosen. The Pac maybe desperate so maybe desperate times call for desperate measures.

Fact: With the near-certain move of UCLA and S. Cal to the Big 10, there will be a major re-shuffling of athletic conferences over the next 3-4 years.

Numerous times, I’ve asked this question: Should Montana remain in the Big Sky?
The attendance data for 2022 below should be reason enough to consider alignment changes.

Montana and Montana State – by virtue of the schools’ attendance numbers – would make good candidates to move to the Mountain West Conference (more on this soon). To do so, the schools would have to add swimming and Diving, while Montana State would have to add softball (which I have heard it’s unwilling to consider).

Since the Big Sky Conference no longer publishes attendance data on its web site, I obtained the data below from the web sites of each Big Sky all-sports member school. I excluded Cal Davis and Cal Poly from the list. Those schools, however, recorded per game attendance numbers just over 8000 per game.

Big Sky Conference 2022 Football Season Paid Attendance Totals, Ranked top to bottom
1. MONTANA Total: 165,178 (including 1 playoff @ 13,390). SIX rs home games: 151,788 total @ 25,298 rs pg average (23,500 if playoff game is added to average).
2. Montana State Total: 158,416 (includes two playoff games att 16,397 & 14,367) SIX rs home games: 127,652 @ pg 21,275 avg (19, 808 if playoff games added to average).
3. SAC State Total: 100,369 (includes two playoff games att 9136 & 13,722). FIVE rs home games: 77,511 @ pg 14,338 avg.
4. Weber State Total: 57,406 (includes one playoff game att 4495). SIX rs home games: 52,911 @ pg 8818 avg.
5. Idaho Total for FIVE home games: 44,460 @ pg 8,892 [/b]pg avg.
6. NAU Total for FIVE home games: 38,449 @ 7689 pg avg.
7. ISU Total for FIVE home games: 31,312 @ 6262 pg avg.
8. EWU Total: Total for FIVE home games: 25,650 @ pg 5,130 pg avg.
9. UNC Total: Total for FIVE home games: 22,755 @ pg 4558 pg avg.
10. PSU Total: Total for FIVE home games: 21,413 @ pg 4282 pg avg.

Notice two dramatic drops: After Montana, after MSU and then the plunge after SAC.

Compiled this all manually, & double-checked, but errors are possible. Let me know if you notice any errors.

Where would Montana have ranked – by 2022 football season home game paid football attendance averages – if it had been a member of the Mountain West (Mountain Division) Conference in 2022?

1. -- Boise State University: 210,727/ pg average of 35,121
2. -- Air Force Academy: 188,487/ pg average of 26,926
3. -- Colorado State University: 161,345/ pg average of 26, 890
4. -- MONTANA: 151,788/ pg average of 25,298
5. -- Wyoming: 118,204/pg average of 19,709
6. -- Utah State: 101,724/ pg average of 16,954
7. -- New Mexico: 89,794/ pg average of 14,965

For “kicks,” I added the last-place team in the MWC Western Division.
8. -- Nevada: 89,431/ pg average of 14,905

Notice that when we talk of a move up, we only ever think about football. But both our basketball programs would benefit mightily from a move up as well. Instead of having only one slot in a minor conference, there'd be a chance for multiple slots in a much higher rated conference with improved seeding at the Big Dance. And the quality of teams coming through Missoula would jump a bunch, corresponding quite possibly with a return to the good old days of the zoo.

citay said:

Notice that when we talk of a move up, we only ever think about football. But both our basketball programs would benefit mightily from a move up as well. Instead of having only one slot in a minor conference, there'd be a chance for multiple slots in a much higher rated conference with improved seeding at the Big Dance. And the quality of teams coming through Missoula would jump a bunch, corresponding quite possibly with a return to the good old days of the zoo.

Click to expand...

Citay I agree entirely. Football is obviously the driving force, but the basketball programs could be improved dramatically. Seeing higher quality teams all basketball season for both the men and the women would almost be a guarantee in higher attendance. Not to mention I could see a move to the MWC being an improvement to the already strong programs in womens soccer and softball. As far as football, it would take longer to catch up to those other programs, but you never know...

One can dream!!