Shannon is Fired!!!! Boom!!!

Griz & Big Sky Conference Basketball
HookedonGriz
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Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
Seems you definitely have a personal or close connection to Shannon. Of course that will cloud your judgment or make you bias. Let’s just look at tangible facts:

- 52-69 record in 4 years (awful)
- early exits in the Big Sky tourney
- absolutely dominated by cats in 4 years
- losses at home to teams who shouldn’t even compete with us
- a mass exodus of girls leaving the program, far above any average levels you keep referencing. I bet there’s been more turnover on that program than any other program in the Big Sky, men’s or women’s
- former players “liking” tweets stating “there are issues in that locker room”

You attach all of that to anyone not named Shannon Cate and she would have been shown the door a long time ago. I’m so happy Kent made this tough decision. He was very smart to do it.

Oh, and there are current players who are very, very okay with this decision. Go Griz!
Sugar Bear 16
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:21 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
Seems you definitely have a personal or close connection to Shannon. Of course that will cloud your judgment or make you bias. Let’s just look at tangible facts:

- 52-69 record in 4 years (awful)
- early exits in the Big Sky tourney
- absolutely dominated by cats in 4 years
- losses at home to teams who shouldn’t even compete with us
- a mass exodus of girls leaving the program, far above any average levels you keep referencing. I bet there’s been more turnover on that program than any other program in the Big Sky, men’s or women’s
- former players “liking” tweets stating “there are issues in that locker room”

You attach all of that to anyone not named Shannon Cate and she would have been shown the door a long time ago. I’m so happy Kent made this tough decision. He was very smart to do it.

Oh, and there are current players who are very, very okay with this decision. Go Griz!

You are wrong. I don’t have any personal connection to Shannon. I’ve met her once in my life and shook her hand. I don’t agree with the decision and my opinion is based off having coached at the college level and work as an administrator, knowing lots of folks who still do and having an understanding of all the that surrounds recruiting and the current culture of athletics today. Some of you on here act like you’ve walked in her shoes etc. Unless you are at practice every day, on the road recruiting and a part of everything that is involved with running a program...you just don’t have a valid right to judge and frankly nobody including myself doesn’t either. Does Haslam? Well I hope he is an administrator that put forth plans of assistance to give her the best opportunity to meet standards and improve. I haven’t walked in his shoes, but I can respectfully disagree with his decision based off what I know and the timing. Whether he made the right decision or not will certainly play out in the years to come. If it turns out to have been a bad decision, well I certainly hope he owes up to it and is held accountable for it. I’m done, everyone be well.
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Shannon wasn't railroaded.

I know it seems rather hinky about how this was handled, especially after agreeing to a two year contract extension. There were systemic issues that were evident from day one that continued through until the end. I don't know specifically what changed Haslam's mind, but I do get the sense it was hardly because of angry parents but rather connected to those systemic program issues.

I have coached at multiple levels and I am acutely aware how the parent-coach-player dynamic has changed. Having friends who work in womens softball and basketball at the college level, I have heard some horror stories about parent behavior. I've seen it first hand as well. I can tell you that there might have been a little of that here, but most of this originated outside of that sphere.

If you want to have a discussion about those problems, I think it would be prudent to have the principles have the conversation publicly. I doubt they ever will. I don't take a lot of solace in Shannon getting fired, but this dismissal is hardly without cause.
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Full of double speak and clearly I have never played the game. Two thousand words where 10 would suffice.
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PlayerRep
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Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:52 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:15 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I can see your point, but I don't think I've ever been "around" a college coach in any sport that has seemed to have more problems with players, and parents, and with more players leaving or thinking about leaving. My view is that the main reason she was hired in the first place, and kept this long, is because of her legendary status, as opposed to her strong coaching and personality attributes. I have been told by various people close to the program, including former LG, that their choice, at least among the assistants, would have been Duce. Some, but fewer, also liked Shannon.

To me, Haslam is/was in the best position to judge, without bias, the extent of the problem behind the scenes. How can a program achieve success if so many players are unhappy or leaving. Note that there are rumors (I don't know if they are true) that other players were considering leaving.

Haslam may have misfired on initial coaching hires in some sports, but he seems to do pretty well in round two. Ha. I don't agree that Haslam's choice of a LG coach in the future, is a make or break thing for him. Unless he were to really blow it, which I can't imagine he would do.
Been around? You hang out with college coaches all across the country all the time? The transfer issue has been a growing problem-hence why the NCAA had to make a new decision on the rule this past winter. I’m not disputing him having the right to do his job as he sees fit. I just don’t agree with it. I personally know one of the players who transferred her first season as head coach and trust me that player did the program a favor. This particular player’s father was on the Lavar Ball level of being a pain in the 🤬. As for former LG teammates of hers not liking her or wanting Duce that is irrelevant. I didn’t like everyone I played with in HS or college nor did I get along with or like all the coaches. That stuff happens all the time and there isn’t an athletic admin with their weight in gold that would base a termination on that and set that for a precedent. That would be a real stupid precedent to set. Bottom line is if you are going to fire someone with Shannon’s dedication to the program etc, well you better make sure the new hire works out because if it doesn’t, then I will remind everyone about what happened with Hogan and the Holst firing-Kennedy hiring and how all that worked out for Hogan.
Yes, I have been around lots of coaches. I didn't say college coaches. I said coaches. My wife and I have had 18 high school and college coaches just in our family, including in-laws. I also follow a number of programs, including schools I attended, where I played 2 sports plus rugby, and UM in recent decades. Note that there are a lot of coaches at each school.

It appears that this coach's problems with players were so big, that the program was crumbling. Note there is a big difference between players not liking a coach, and players disliking the situation so much that they leave the program. Also, smaller teams and women's teams can be even more complicated in that regard.

It absolutely is important what former LG think. They are the strength of the program. 

Hogan was moved along as a scapegoat for the million dollar shortfall in the athletic dept budget.
HookedonGriz
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I heard a group of players approached Haslam and the AD and told them something has to change. Sounds like that is why it went to a probable extension to we have to make a change. Timing makes sense as well. Kudos to the players for being brave and speaking up if true.
PlayerRep
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:02 pm
I heard a group of players approached Haslam and the AD and told them something has to change. Sounds like that is why it went to a probable extension to we have to make a change. Timing makes sense as well. Kudos to the players for being brave and speaking up if true.
Approached whom?
HookedonGriz
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PlayerRep wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:00 pm
HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:02 pm
I heard a group of players approached Haslam and the AD and told them something has to change. Sounds like that is why it went to a probable extension to we have to make a change. Timing makes sense as well. Kudos to the players for being brave and speaking up if true.
Approached whom?
Sorry meant approached Haslam and Bodnar.
HookedonGriz
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:02 pm
I heard a group of players approached Haslam and Bodnar and told them something has to change. Sounds like that is why it went to a probable extension to we have to make a change. Timing makes sense as well. Kudos to the players for being brave and speaking up if true.
PlayerRep
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:16 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:00 pm
HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:02 pm
I heard a group of players approached Haslam and the AD and told them something has to change. Sounds like that is why it went to a probable extension to we have to make a change. Timing makes sense as well. Kudos to the players for being brave and speaking up if true.
Approached whom?
Sorry meant approached Haslam and Bodnar.
Thx.
moneyball
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Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I wasn't going to chime in but I just can't help it...I was a Div 1 Athlete. I have been around the block a time or two....I know very well what it is like to be in her shoes. The choice that was made to fire her was because he had no choice. Just a few weeks prior she was offered an extension. What happened? Well, Gabi quit then Frolich. The day of her being fired two more "TOP STARTERS" came in and said they also wanted to be in the transfer portal if Shannon was retained. Shannon should have been fired two years ago. Haslam is an idiot and he should go as well...but that is another story altogether. Haslam was going to extend her. So, ask yourself one question...why have so many girls left her program? Why did the coaches own daughter's high-school teammate leave? I have been telling you all for two years what has been going on behind the scenes. It doesn't really matter now. We now have a chance to rebuild our program. With Petrino and Covill we can now move forward. Go Lady Griz!!!
hoopyfan
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Interesting how only the men coaches are mentioned to “save” the program. It gets old for females in positions of leadership.
Griz1
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hoopyfan wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:04 pm
Interesting how only the men coaches are mentioned to “save” the program. It gets old for females in positions of leadership.
If I have read these related treads correctly there have been 5 women mentioned -- Trish Duce, Loree Payne, Katie Baker Faulkner, Karen Aston and Krista Redpath. We have not hired anyone new so I wouldn't be jumping to any conclusions as to "saving" any program. All that has happened is the person deemed the most qualified to lead us through the interim period has been named. Time will tell how this will play out.
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hoopyfan wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:04 pm
Interesting how only the men coaches are mentioned to “save” the program. It gets old for females in positions of leadership.
Two recent examples at UM: Melanie Meuchel served as Montana Softball interim coach before receiving a full contract as head coach. Montana Volleyball coach, Allison Lawrence ,was hired under similar circumstances, though I can't remember if she served as an interim coach before being named to the permanent position. Both coaches have done an incredible job at their respective positions, though there were unique circumstances in each situation and I really hesitate to draw parallels to the current situation with Montana womens basketball.
hoopyfan
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A reference to moneyball’s post
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In the immortal words of Paul Harvey “and now the rest it the story”. For you youngsters you can look up Paul Harvey in your Wikipedia. Truth be told we will probably never ever really understand the reasoning, who told who what and other outlandish speculations put forth in Shannon’s departure. Most likely due to confidentiality clauses and knowing Kent Haslam pretty well it wasn’t done without a lot forethought and console from others both in and outside the Grizzly family. It has taken a pretty good pair of cajones to make some of the decisions he’s had to deal with.
So Griz nation let’s turn our retrorockets to more positive ventures such as doing everything we can to support Griz athletics because the world is in significant turmoil right now and the future of not only our sports teams but our very lives are at steak.
Wash your hands, don’t go outside unless absolutely necessary, stay away from crowds etc, etc, etc.
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Zirg
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moneyball wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I wasn't going to chime in but I just can't help it...I was a Div 1 Athlete. I have been around the block a time or two....I know very well what it is like to be in her shoes. The choice that was made to fire her was because he had no choice. Just a few weeks prior she was offered an extension. What happened? Well, Gabi quit then Frolich. The day of her being fired two more "TOP STARTERS" came in and said they also wanted to be in the transfer portal if Shannon was retained. Shannon should have been fired two years ago. Haslam is an idiot and he should go as well...but that is another story altogether. Haslam was going to extend her. So, ask yourself one question...why have so many girls left her program? Why did the coaches own daughter's high-school teammate leave?
Because she wasn't very good and realized she wasn't gonna have a prominent role. Nobody is upset with DeCuire because Yagi or whatever is name is left. Same story. Neither are going to another D1 school. I realize there are others who transferred under Shannon's watch that had talent. This is not the case with Frohlich.
ThinkingGriz
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Zirg wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:35 pm
moneyball wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I wasn't going to chime in but I just can't help it...I was a Div 1 Athlete. I have been around the block a time or two....I know very well what it is like to be in her shoes. The choice that was made to fire her was because he had no choice. Just a few weeks prior she was offered an extension. What happened? Well, Gabi quit then Frolich. The day of her being fired two more "TOP STARTERS" came in and said they also wanted to be in the transfer portal if Shannon was retained. Shannon should have been fired two years ago. Haslam is an idiot and he should go as well...but that is another story altogether. Haslam was going to extend her. So, ask yourself one question...why have so many girls left her program? Why did the coaches own daughter's high-school teammate leave?
Because she wasn't very good and realized she wasn't gonna have a prominent role. Nobody is upset with DeCuire because Yagi or whatever is name is left. Same story. Neither are going to another D1 school. I realize there are others who transferred under Shannon's watch that had talent. This is not the case with Frohlich.
Wow you are really butt hurt to lash out a young girl. NO class!
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moneyball wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I wasn't going to chime in but I just can't help it...I was a Div 1 Athlete. I have been around the block a time or two....I know very well what it is like to be in her shoes. The choice that was made to fire her was because he had no choice. Just a few weeks prior she was offered an extension. What happened? Well, Gabi quit then Frolich. The day of her being fired two more "TOP STARTERS" came in and said they also wanted to be in the transfer portal if Shannon was retained. Shannon should have been fired two years ago. Haslam is an idiot and he should go as well...but that is another story altogether. Haslam was going to extend her. So, ask yourself one question...why have so many girls left her program? Why did the coaches own daughter's high-school teammate leave? I have been telling you all for two years what has been going on behind the scenes. It doesn't really matter now. We now have a chance to rebuild our program. With Petrino and Covill we can now move forward. Go Lady Griz!!!

Biggest problem with the Lady Griz is the parents. The parents think their kids are all--american's when they should be thankful they are playing at U of M no matter who is coaching. Good riddance to the players who left. I am thankful SS is going to stay and play.
HookedonGriz
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- 52-69 record (42% wining percentage)
- 1-7 vs Cats
- 1-4 in Big Sky tourney
- only 5 players graduated under her in those 4 years
- 18 players with eligibility remaining left the program

I don’t care how legendary you were as a player, that is not even close to getting the job done. Best move Haslam has made. Kudos to him for having the balls to do it.
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