Shannon is Fired!!!! Boom!!!

Griz & Big Sky Conference Basketball
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maroonandsilver
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:42 pm
- 52-69 record (42% wining percentage)
- 1-7 vs Cats
- 1-4 in Big Sky tourney
- only 5 players graduated under her in those 4 years
- 18 players with eligibility remaining left the program

I don’t care how legendary you were as a player, that is not even close to getting the job done. Best move Haslam has made. Kudos to him for having the balls to do it.
[/quot

Yesssss!! :clap: :thumb: :clap:
hoopyfan
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moneyball wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:04 pm
Sugar Bear 16 wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:08 am
You can judge her all you want in here you have the right to your opinion but I doubt 99% of the posters on here have ever played or coached at the D1 level or for some of you at any levels. You have no idea what is like to be in her shoes etc. The number of transfers ever year across all college sports has gone up year by year. The culture in sports today is more about “puppies and ice cream” then it is about being competitive and accountable etc. A large number of athletes today like winning if it comes easy but if they have to work hard for it and be held accountable for their short-comings, forget that. She was told she had to win before this last season and she plus her staff and players accomplished that. If she was given an extension, then that should have been honored. If the AD had concerns about transfers etc, then make that clear in the new contract and hold that standard. The choice that was made was very disrespectful towards a legendary player who has given 2/3 of her life so far to the program. She had to replace one of college basketball’s legendary coaches who won a ton of games etc. I don’t agree with Mr. Haslam’s decision and his next moves will be key for his future. If doesn’t find a successful replacement, then I hope he is shown the door.
I wasn't going to chime in but I just can't help it...I was a Div 1 Athlete. I have been around the block a time or two....I know very well what it is like to be in her shoes. The choice that was made to fire her was because he had no choice. Just a few weeks prior she was offered an extension. What happened? Well, Gabi quit then Frolich. The day of her being fired two more "TOP STARTERS" came in and said they also wanted to be in the transfer portal if Shannon was retained. Shannon should have been fired two years ago. Haslam is an idiot and he should go as well...but that is another story altogether. Haslam was going to extend her. So, ask yourself one question...why have so many girls left her program? Why did the coaches own daughter's high-school teammate leave? I have been telling you all for two years what has been going on behind the scenes. It doesn't really matter now. We now have a chance to rebuild our program. With Petrino and Covill we can now move forward. Go Lady Griz!!!
How does Jordan Sullivan not even get a mention? A female role model with more D1 coaching experience than Covill? Or Jace Henderson? Nothing against him, but I find it very odd your way to move forward is with the two males on the staff.
grizindabox
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Liquor up front! wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:20 pm

Biggest problem with the Lady Griz is the parents. The parents think their kids are all--american's when they should be thankful they are playing at U of M no matter who is coaching. Good riddance to the players who left. I am thankful SS is going to stay and play.
The parents are the biggest issue at every single level of sports.
One of the definitions of privilege is, thinking “the system works” because it worked FOR YOU.
go96griz
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The parents weren't always the problem. I would argue that may have been the issue only a couple of times. There have been a lot of high quality kids leave the program that had great character, good academics and high-level basketball skills and it had nothing to do with parents.

Shannon may be a legendary player but she failed to be a positive leader as a coach and to earn and or keep player respect. It boils down to how you treat kids inside the locker room and not just what you say in the press. Two years ago she was forced to write an apology letter to player parents due to her poor behind the scenes behavior. Players don't take well to being blown up at, ridiculed in front of others, inappropriate comments being made to them, and to generally being treated poorly at times. There is a fine line and it got crossed far too many times so the damage was done.

Kylie and Gabi hit the transfer portal. Shannon lost the team after additional players asked to leave. There was only one option left for Haslam. He had to move on from her or face the whole program imploding. This was a difficult decision only due to Shannon's many supportive fans that only know her as a player and casual hangout buddy. Time to move on and support Mike, Nate, Jordan and Jace. The players like and respect them and they will give their all to getting the program back to the top.

Go Griz!
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AllWeatherFan
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grizindabox wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:47 pm
Liquor up front! wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:20 pm

Biggest problem with the Lady Griz is the parents. The parents think their kids are all--american's when they should be thankful they are playing at U of M no matter who is coaching. Good riddance to the players who left. I am thankful SS is going to stay and play.
The parents are the biggest issue at every single level of sports.
...and they always have been. It’s not a new phenomenon, unfortunately.
Turn up the Eagles, the neighbors are listening.
HookedonGriz
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go96griz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:34 am
The parents weren't always the problem. I would argue that may have been the issue only a couple of times. There have been a lot of high quality kids leave the program that had great character, good academics and high-level basketball skills and it had nothing to do with parents.

Shannon may be a legendary player but she failed to be a positive leader as a coach and to earn and or keep player respect. It boils down to how you treat kids inside the locker room and not just what you say in the press. Two years ago she was forced to write an apology letter to player parents due to her poor behind the scenes behavior. Players don't take well to being blown up at, ridiculed in front of others, inappropriate comments being made to them, and to generally being treated poorly at times. There is a fine line and it got crossed far too many times so the damage was done.

Kylie and Gabi hit the transfer portal. Shannon lost the team after additional players asked to leave. There was only one option left for Haslam. He had to move on from her or face the whole program imploding. This was a difficult decision only due to Shannon's many supportive fans that only know her as a player and casual hangout buddy. Time to move on and support Mike, Nate, Jordan and Jace. The players like and respect them and they will give their all to getting the program back to the top.

Go Griz!
Bingo. Home run. End thread.
grizpack
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go96griz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:34 am
Players don't take well to being blown up at, ridiculed in front of others, inappropriate comments being made to them, and to generally being treated poorly at times. There is a fine line and it got crossed far too many times so the damage was done.
It is probably a good thing I played sports when I did. Maybe we were just really, really shitty players (probably), but this was an every day occurence. It wasn't a big deal then. In fact, the coach would usually be joking with you or praising you in the next few minutes.

I don't know what she said to any of the players, or the context of any of it. I am aware of the problems that existed and the general allegations. Just seems like kids these days and coaches from years gone by would be a complete [email protected], and would result in the elimination of all sports.
grizindabox
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AllWeatherFan wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:05 am
grizindabox wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:47 pm


The parents are the biggest issue at every single level of sports.
...and they always have been. It’s not a new phenomenon, unfortunately.
Not new, but I would argue quite a bit worse.
One of the definitions of privilege is, thinking “the system works” because it worked FOR YOU.
PlayerRep
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go96griz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:34 am
The parents weren't always the problem. I would argue that may have been the issue only a couple of times. There have been a lot of high quality kids leave the program that had great character, good academics and high-level basketball skills and it had nothing to do with parents.

Shannon may be a legendary player but she failed to be a positive leader as a coach and to earn and or keep player respect. It boils down to how you treat kids inside the locker room and not just what you say in the press. Two years ago she was forced to write an apology letter to player parents due to her poor behind the scenes behavior. Players don't take well to being blown up at, ridiculed in front of others, inappropriate comments being made to them, and to generally being treated poorly at times. There is a fine line and it got crossed far too many times so the damage was done.

Kylie and Gabi hit the transfer portal. Shannon lost the team after additional players asked to leave. There was only one option left for Haslam. He had to move on from her or face the whole program imploding. This was a difficult decision only due to Shannon's many supportive fans that only know her as a player and casual hangout buddy. Time to move on and support Mike, Nate, Jordan and Jace. The players like and respect them and they will give their all to getting the program back to the top.

Go Griz!
I have little or no specific or first hand knowledge, but this post seems to capture the impression I've gotten over the past several years. Well written, 96. Thx.
ThinkingGriz
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HookedonGriz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:36 am
go96griz wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:34 am
The parents weren't always the problem. I would argue that may have been the issue only a couple of times. There have been a lot of high quality kids leave the program that had great character, good academics and high-level basketball skills and it had nothing to do with parents.

Shannon may be a legendary player but she failed to be a positive leader as a coach and to earn and or keep player respect. It boils down to how you treat kids inside the locker room and not just what you say in the press. Two years ago she was forced to write an apology letter to player parents due to her poor behind the scenes behavior. Players don't take well to being blown up at, ridiculed in front of others, inappropriate comments being made to them, and to generally being treated poorly at times. There is a fine line and it got crossed far too many times so the damage was done.

Kylie and Gabi hit the transfer portal. Shannon lost the team after additional players asked to leave. There was only one option left for Haslam. He had to move on from her or face the whole program imploding. This was a difficult decision only due to Shannon's many supportive fans that only know her as a player and casual hangout buddy. Time to move on and support Mike, Nate, Jordan and Jace. The players like and respect them and they will give their all to getting the program back to the top.

Go Griz!
Bingo. Home run. End thread.
Spot on. This is why I started posting last year.
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Walkon79
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cgamber7 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:44 pm
Moneyball is an idiot. I have watched every single Lady Griz game for the past 2 years. For those of u half ass fans listen up... 39% of all ncaa student athletes transfer at least once. How many girls that have transferred out of Shannons program have had success?? Don’t worry, I’ll wait... I’m not going to badmouth the girls but just look at the transfers and their history. Kids leave instead of compete. If everything isn’t going their way they quit. Welcome to ncaa student athletes 2020. Thanks to the people who support Shannon and understand her life long commitment to Lady Griz basketball. Shame on you other people who jump in without knowing a damn thing. Kent Haslem is a puppet who succumbed to the pressure of the community of fans who don’t know shit.

Don’t blame Shannon for injuries that have happened. ACL injuries are very common if u take a look. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-bas ... basketball
The list of transfers for the MSU women over the same period is also lengthy, so I agree.
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Griz66
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Anyone know why there still has yet to be an "official" announcement of the change. Seems very strange to me unless I have missed something. There is nothing on gogriz.com and Shannon is still listed as the HC.
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Walkon79
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Walkon79 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:53 am
cgamber7 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:44 pm
Moneyball is an idiot. I have watched every single Lady Griz game for the past 2 years. For those of u half ass fans listen up... 39% of all ncaa student athletes transfer at least once. How many girls that have transferred out of Shannons program have had success?? Don’t worry, I’ll wait... I’m not going to badmouth the girls but just look at the transfers and their history. Kids leave instead of compete. If everything isn’t going their way they quit. Welcome to ncaa student athletes 2020. Thanks to the people who support Shannon and understand her life long commitment to Lady Griz basketball. Shame on you other people who jump in without knowing a damn thing. Kent Haslem is a puppet who succumbed to the pressure of the community of fans who don’t know shit.

Don’t blame Shannon for injuries that have happened. ACL injuries are very common if u take a look. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-bas ... basketball
The list of transfers for the MSU women over the same period is also lengthy, so I agree.
Here's the list.

Hilborn, Fitzgerald, McRae, Shaide, Wright, Pranger, Lai, Seigner, Kast, Gillette, Blodgett, Davis.

At least three of these girls would have seen significant playing time next year had they stayed. Hilborn, Wright, Lai.
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citay
Posts: 2113
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"Hoosiers" aside, basketball is an urban game. That's where the talent is, the legends are made, and where the game takes on an "in-your-face-disgrace" level of ego and self-pride. There's not one high-level college program in this country, urban or rural, men's or women's, than doesn't rely on recruits from the major metropolitan areas--Los Angeles, Oakland/San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Detroit, Houston, Dallas--or even smaller cities like Denver, Portland, San Diego, Phoenix, Indianapolis.

On the men's side, we are right now successfully recruiting several key West Coast cities--a major reason for our current success. Two of the all-time Grizzly greats, Micheal Ray and Derrick Pope, were from Denver.

So it's not because of the injuries or the transfers that I've quit following the Lady Griz. Simply they've become an almost incestuous group of "our girls," recruits from in-state or nearby rural areas, a team with largely a local following.

And while I give Selvig credit for building a great program, I'm also aware that Montana started its women's program ahead of many of the major schools, got a great break in getting Shannon Cate as a player very early, but slowly over the years let that advantage dissipate as the larger schools saw the revenue potential in women's basketball, and even some Big Sky schools caught and surpassed us.

If Mike Petrino can "open out" our recruiting, I'll be back. Otherwise I'll leave it to the local parents to follow this team. At the rate we're going, they'll be the last ones there, squabbling and bitching if I'm to believe the reports.
Colter_Nuanez56
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Walkon79 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:53 am
cgamber7 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:44 pm
Moneyball is an idiot. I have watched every single Lady Griz game for the past 2 years. For those of u half ass fans listen up... 39% of all ncaa student athletes transfer at least once. How many girls that have transferred out of Shannons program have had success?? Don’t worry, I’ll wait... I’m not going to badmouth the girls but just look at the transfers and their history. Kids leave instead of compete. If everything isn’t going their way they quit. Welcome to ncaa student athletes 2020. Thanks to the people who support Shannon and understand her life long commitment to Lady Griz basketball. Shame on you other people who jump in without knowing a damn thing. Kent Haslem is a puppet who succumbed to the pressure of the community of fans who don’t know shit.

Don’t blame Shannon for injuries that have happened. ACL injuries are very common if u take a look. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-bas ... basketball
The list of transfers for the MSU women over the same period is also lengthy, so I agree.
The No. 1 point that most administrators, coaches and athletic departments miss is this: there are trends and things that become a part of life even if you don't like it. Example: Everyone wanting to transfer or quit. It's a trend. We hate it. But it's the way it is now, the norm. But you can deal with it by staying ahead of it.

What internal collegiate sports peoples seem to have a hard time grasping is that you can enhance your relationship with the media and you can use the media as the tool it can be to benefit your athletic department by being accountable and transparent.

Montana has had 16 players leave the team over the last four years. During that same time, 12 players have left Montana State's women's basketball team. The difference is Montana does not make announcements on roster movement until its reported by Skyline Sports and other media outlets. And its usually not confirmed until long after the news is old. It makes it seem like they are hiding something even if they aren't trying to hide a thing.

Montana State most often makes announcements of roster movement via press release. Montana does not acknowledge or give detail or thank players that leave the program. Montana State's releases usually include reasons for leaving the program and a quote giving thanks to the player for competing for MSU.

And if MSU does not have a release, if a reporter or news outlet calls, they will at the very least acknowledge and confirm the departure and usually help explain the why even if a quote is not provided.

This is not on UM sports information. All of the SIDs at Montana are very helpful. This is a cultural issue from the top down; a fundamental misunderstanding by the institution as a whole on how to manage basic pieces of news so they do not seem controversial or more than just part of a national trend, like transfers.

This Shannon Schweyen situation is yet another example of Montana's failings in this area. The fact that every news outlet in Montana has reported this, Shannon has GONE ON THE RECORD with the local paper to confirm it and Montana still has not sent out a press release to confirm this is an error to say the least.

It doesn't have to be a soliloquy. You don't have to have a press conference until you're ready. But the cut and dry "Montana athletics has decided to not renew the contract of Shannon Schweyen after four seasons. A coaching search will commence immediately," seems very necessary to me.

Then you factor is that Shannon is an icon, a beloved and legendary former athlete and it's not a good PR situation whatsoever.

Staying ahead of the news, operating with transparency and accountability as a STATE PUBLICLY FUNDED institution is a very good strategy and one that should be required but has faded in recent years.
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Mousegriz
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citay wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:34 pm
"Hoosiers" aside, basketball is an urban game. That's where the talent is, the legends are made, and where the game takes on an "in-your-face-disgrace" level of ego and self-pride. There's not one high-level college program in this country, urban or rural, men's or women's, than doesn't rely on recruits from the major metropolitan areas--Los Angeles, Oakland/San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Detroit, Houston, Dallas--or even smaller cities like Denver, Portland, San Diego, Phoenix, Indianapolis.

On the men's side, we are right now successfully recruiting several key West Coast cities--a major reason for our current success. Two of the all-time Grizzly greats, Micheal Ray and Derrick Pope, were from Denver.

So it's not because of the injuries or the transfers that I've quit following the Lady Griz. Simply they've become an almost incestuous group of "our girls," recruits from in-state or nearby rural areas, a team with largely a local following.

And while I give Selvig credit for building a great program, I'm also aware that Montana started its women's program ahead of many of the major schools, got a great break in getting Shannon Cate as a player very early, but slowly over the years let that advantage dissipate as the larger schools saw the revenue potential in women's basketball, and even some Big Sky schools caught and surpassed us.

If Mike Petrino can "open out" our recruiting, I'll be back. Otherwise I'll leave it to the local parents to follow this team. At the rate we're going, they'll be the last ones there, squabbling and bitching if I'm to believe the reports.
Are all these foreign white guys making big waves in your "American Urban Game" from "major metropolitan areas"? Did Giannis grow up playing some mean street games in Athens?
citay
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Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:02 am
citay wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:34 pm
"Hoosiers" aside, basketball is an urban game. That's where the talent is, the legends are made, and where the game takes on an "in-your-face-disgrace" level of ego and self-pride. There's not one high-level college program in this country, urban or rural, men's or women's, than doesn't rely on recruits from the major metropolitan areas--Los Angeles, Oakland/San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Detroit, Houston, Dallas--or even smaller cities like Denver, Portland, San Diego, Phoenix, Indianapolis.

On the men's side, we are right now successfully recruiting several key West Coast cities--a major reason for our current success. Two of the all-time Grizzly greats, Micheal Ray and Derrick Pope, were from Denver.

So it's not because of the injuries or the transfers that I've quit following the Lady Griz. Simply they've become an almost incestuous group of "our girls," recruits from in-state or nearby rural areas, a team with largely a local following.

And while I give Selvig credit for building a great program, I'm also aware that Montana started its women's program ahead of many of the major schools, got a great break in getting Shannon Cate as a player very early, but slowly over the years let that advantage dissipate as the larger schools saw the revenue potential in women's basketball, and even some Big Sky schools caught and surpassed us.

If Mike Petrino can "open out" our recruiting, I'll be back. Otherwise I'll leave it to the local parents to follow this team. At the rate we're going, they'll be the last ones there, squabbling and bitching if I'm to believe the reports.
Are all these foreign white guys making big waves in your "American Urban Game" from "major metropolitan areas"? Did Giannis grow up playing some mean street games in Athens?
You make a list of all the "foreign white guys" making waves, either in the NBA or at Montana, and I'll make a list of the players from the cities I just mentioned. I'll even let you toss in Giannis.
Mousegriz
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citay wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:02 pm
Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:02 am


Are all these foreign white guys making big waves in your "American Urban Game" from "major metropolitan areas"? Did Giannis grow up playing some mean street games in Athens?
You make a list of all the "foreign white guys" making waves, either in the NBA or at Montana, and I'll make a list of the players from the cities I just mentioned. I'll even let you toss in Giannis.
Might just do that. The more interesting comparison would be to make those lists 15 years ago and again today.

The "foreign white guys making waves" in NBA and NCAA Men's list is longer today than 15 years ago....the players from cities just mentioned seemingly about the same.

And 15 years ago, "white guys from Montana" was a bigger factor on Montana's teams, "white guys from the US" a bigger factor in the NCAA/NBA.....and players from the cities just mentioned seemingly about the same.

So "America's Urban Game" seems more a reality in America today than 15 years ago but why the influx of white players from around the world and diminished number of white players from America?

Here we go Citay....derailing a thread about Shannon....."she had rings on her fingers and bells on her shoes!"

Shannon.....her play reminded me of Larry Bird! And that's no joke!!
HookedonGriz
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Colter_Nuanez56 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:07 pm
Walkon79 wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:53 am


The list of transfers for the MSU women over the same period is also lengthy, so I agree.
The No. 1 point that most administrators, coaches and athletic departments miss is this: there are trends and things that become a part of life even if you don't like it. Example: Everyone wanting to transfer or quit. It's a trend. We hate it. But it's the way it is now, the norm. But you can deal with it by staying ahead of it.

What internal collegiate sports peoples seem to have a hard time grasping is that you can enhance your relationship with the media and you can use the media as the tool it can be to benefit your athletic department by being accountable and transparent.

Montana has had 16 players leave the team over the last four years. During that same time, 12 players have left Montana State's women's basketball team. The difference is Montana does not make announcements on roster movement until its reported by Skyline Sports and other media outlets. And its usually not confirmed until long after the news is old. It makes it seem like they are hiding something even if they aren't trying to hide a thing.

Montana State most often makes announcements of roster movement via press release. Montana does not acknowledge or give detail or thank players that leave the program. Montana State's releases usually include reasons for leaving the program and a quote giving thanks to the player for competing for MSU.

And if MSU does not have a release, if a reporter or news outlet calls, they will at the very least acknowledge and confirm the departure and usually help explain the why even if a quote is not provided.

This is not on UM sports information. All of the SIDs at Montana are very helpful. This is a cultural issue from the top down; a fundamental misunderstanding by the institution as a whole on how to manage basic pieces of news so they do not seem controversial or more than just part of a national trend, like transfers.

This Shannon Schweyen situation is yet another example of Montana's failings in this area. The fact that every news outlet in Montana has reported this, Shannon has GONE ON THE RECORD with the local paper to confirm it and Montana still has not sent out a press release to confirm this is an error to say the least.

It doesn't have to be a soliloquy. You don't have to have a press conference until you're ready. But the cut and dry "Montana athletics has decided to not renew the contract of Shannon Schweyen after four seasons. A coaching search will commence immediately," seems very necessary to me.

Then you factor is that Shannon is an icon, a beloved and legendary former athlete and it's not a good PR situation whatsoever.

Staying ahead of the news, operating with transparency and accountability as a STATE PUBLICLY FUNDED institution is a very good strategy and one that should be required but has faded in recent years.
Another Nuanez long ball.....I couldn’t agree more!
maroonandsilver
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Harrington leaves and signs with Idaho. Kylie Frolich enters the Transfer Portal. 3 more Lady Griz (3, not 2 as was earlier reported) threaten to transfer if Shannon is extended. These actions, plus the loss of the 3 graduating seniors, would have left the program decimated. Shannon is not extended. Kylie returns to the Lady Griz and the other 3 also commit to staying. All the incoming recruits, including the Portland girl, remain committed. Any wonder why Shannon was not extended?
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