Satterwhite v. Falls - 3-Pt Shooting

Griz & Big Sky Conference Basketball
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

"1-How is 20 less shots not a big deal when talking efficiency? The entire notion of you questioning this is a little redicilous. 20 shots makes a pretty big difference considering timmy took 60 total.
2-Gee, I don’t know, maybe because Burcar had said on multiple occasions that he was their best and most versatile defender, and when he left the local reporters were writing stories about the departures of Andre and Satterwhite, and questioned who was going to guard other teams best player with Satterwhite gone."

Falls had 35 starts at UM, a much better team than NAU. Satterwhite had 18 starts in his career, all at NAU. How is that not a big deal?

As for 3 point shots, Satterwhite was 30-79, 4-19, and 11-40. 32.6% for his career. 45-138.

Falls was 23-60, 26-75, and 22-54. 39.4%. 71-180.

So, Falls is a career 39.4% 3 point shooter. Has taken 180, and has had made 71.

Satterwhite is a 32.6 % career shooter. Has taken 138 shots and made 45.

So, Falls has shot 6% better in his career, made 26 more 3's and has taken 42 more 3's.

So, because Satterwhite took 29 more 3's last year, he's a better 3-pt shooter.

So, buddy, these stats don't come close to supporting your assertion.

Yup, you got the list right. All became friends. Some worked for me. I was invited to JD's wedding this summer at Big Sky. Only 2 Griz fans were invited, one of whom did the wedding. I know the parents of all of them too, except for Qvale. I have been to quite a few former Griz weddings. I didn't realize that jock sniffers got invited to weddings. Never new that.
braves84
Posts: 949
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:19 pm

Last year in big sky conference play alone.
Falls was 23-60 .383.% from 3 point land and 77-185 for .416% overall from the floor. For 6.6.ppg.
Satterwhite was 25-61 for .410% from 3 point land and 67-154 for .435% overall from the floor for 10.2 PPG.
Falls on average played 3.0. minutes a game more than satterwhite.
UMFan12
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

braves84 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:25 pm
Last year in big sky conference play alone.
Falls was 23-60 .383.% from 3 point land and 77-185 for .416% overall from the floor. For 6.6.ppg.
Satterwhite was 25-61 for .410% from 3 point land and 67-154 for .435% overall from the floor for 10.2 PPG.
Falls on average played 3.0. minutes a game more than satterwhite.
Shhhh, don’t tell him the numbers. He’ll bring up the freshman ad sophmore stats yet again, like we care. Who cares what he did as a freshman or sophmore. He broke out as a junior, and we get him as a senior. Junior Satterwhite>>>>>>>>> Junior Falls.
20 more 3 point attempts still shooting the same efficiency says a lot considering Falls took 60 total 3s last season. To have a guy take 79 and shoot the same efficiency wise, and still be called a worse shooter is the most PR thing I’ve ever heard. You just don’t know when/how to admit you were wrong. Get over yourself.
One is a consistent shooter who hit a 3 in 20 of 29 games last season. The other is a guy who could go 2/2 one game and 0/4 the next. You tell me which one a coach is going to want when one bad game at the wrong time and your season is over. You took the L in this one PR, it’s time to give it up and move on. Ego through the roof.
Last edited by UMFan12 on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UMFan12
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

Here you go PR. Here are the numbers. Throw in the fact Satterwhite is a better, more versatile, less foul prone defender and it’s not even close who Travis would rather have.

Falls | Satterwhite
29.6 | 24.4 MPG
6.6 | 9 PPG
2.3 | 2.4 RPG
2.8 | 1.5 APG
1.3 | 1.0 SPG
3.4(105 total) |1.7(48 total) FPG/Total Personal Fouls
1.6 | 0.9 AST/TO Ratio
2 | 0 Technical Fouls
6 | 0(0 for his career) Foul Outs
41.6(77-185) |42.7(91-213) FG%
38.3(23-60) | 38.0(30-79) 3PT%
65.9(27-41) | 77.8(49-63) FT%
Pretty clear who is not only the better player but also the better and (very slightly) more efficient scorer.

And for the advanced stats folks:
Falls | Satterwhite
47.8% | 49.8% eFG%
50.2% | 54.2% TS%
0.371 | 0.583 Steals/Personal Foul(higher=better)
0.114 | 0.167 Blocks/Personal Foul(same as above)

And just in case anybody wanted to debate athleticism for some reason, here you go.



Give it up PR.
teejay406
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:54 am

I appreciate stats as much as the next guy. Having said that, I’m just not seeing a big enough difference between the two to make the argument that Satterwhite is vast improvement over Falls. I tend to place as much importance on intangibles as stats and think losing Falls is a real bummer (tenacity, fan favorite, etc)

My impression is that Falls was let go for non basketball reasons and Satterwhite was brought in as someone who was both available and has had roughly the same production as the player they were losing.

I really doubt he was brought here with the expectation that his senior numbers blow away they expected to get from Timmy.

I hope to be surprised by Satterwhite but am still really going to miss seeing Timmy on this team.
PlayerRep
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

teejay406 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:38 pm
I appreciate stats as much as the next guy. Having said that, I’m just not seeing a big enough difference between the two to make the argument that Satterwhite is vast improvement over Falls. I tend to place as much importance on intangibles as stats and think losing Falls is a real bummer (tenacity, fan favorite, etc)

My impression is that Falls was let go for non basketball reasons and Satterwhite was brought in as someone who was both available and has had roughly the same production as the player they were losing.

I really doubt he was brought here with the expectation that his senior numbers blow away they expected to get from Timmy.

I hope to be surprised by Satterwhite but am still really going to miss seeing Timmy on this team.
Falls wasn't "let go". He withdrew. Academics.
PlayerRep
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I'm glad Braves or someone brought up the conference stats. Here are some conference stats.

Falls shot 41.5% from 3 in conference. I think 41.5% for Falls is better than Satterwhite's 41%.

Had 62 assists to 26 TO. Ratio of 2.4. Best on the team. 2d best was Vasquez with a 1.8 ratio.

Satterwhite was 27 assists to 31 TO. A .9 ratio.

So, Falls has 2.3 times as many assists, and fewer TO. That alone would make Falls a starter over Statterwhite.

Falls had 30 steals. Satterwhite had 17. Sure, Satterwhite is some great defender.

Falls had 7 blocks. Satterwhite had 5. What, Satterwhite can't even block a shot.

Falls shot 83% from the line. Satterwhite was 77%.

There is not a chance in hell that Satterwhite would have started over Falls.
Last edited by PlayerRep on Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:30 pm
Here you go PR. Here are the numbers. Throw in the fact Satterwhite is a better, more versatile, less foul prone defender and it’s not even close who Travis would rather have.

Falls | Satterwhite
29.6 | 24.4 MPG
6.6 | 9 PPG
2.3 | 2.4 RPG
2.8 | 1.5 APG
1.3 | 1.0 SPG
3.4(105 total) |1.7(48 total) FPG/Total Personal Fouls
1.6 | 0.9 AST/TO Ratio
2 | 0 Technical Fouls
6 | 0(0 for his career) Foul Outs
41.6(77-185) |42.7(91-213) FG%
38.3(23-60) | 38.0(30-79) 3PT%
65.9(27-41) | 77.8(49-63) FT%
Pretty clear who is not only the better player but also the better and (very slightly) more efficient scorer.

And for the advanced stats folks:
Falls | Satterwhite
47.8% | 49.8% eFG%
50.2% | 54.2% TS%
0.371 | 0.583 Steals/Personal Foul(higher=better)
0.114 | 0.167 Blocks/Personal Foul(same as above)

And just in case anybody wanted to debate athleticism for some reason, here you go.



Give it up PR.
Your irrelevant stats are beyond dumb. Look at my recent ones.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:30 pm
Here you go PR. Here are the numbers. Throw in the fact Satterwhite is a better, more versatile, less foul prone defender and it’s not even close who Travis would rather have.

Falls | Satterwhite
29.6 | 24.4 MPG
6.6 | 9 PPG
2.3 | 2.4 RPG
2.8 | 1.5 APG
1.3 | 1.0 SPG
3.4(105 total) |1.7(48 total) FPG/Total Personal Fouls
1.6 | 0.9 AST/TO Ratio
2 | 0 Technical Fouls
6 | 0(0 for his career) Foul Outs
41.6(77-185) |42.7(91-213) FG%
38.3(23-60) | 38.0(30-79) 3PT%
65.9(27-41) | 77.8(49-63) FT%
Pretty clear who is not only the better player but also the better and (very slightly) more efficient scorer.

And for the advanced stats folks:
Falls | Satterwhite
47.8% | 49.8% eFG%
50.2% | 54.2% TS%
0.371 | 0.583 Steals/Personal Foul(higher=better)
0.114 | 0.167 Blocks/Personal Foul(same as above)

And just in case anybody wanted to debate athleticism for some reason, here you go.



Give it up PR.
Falls can do that either direction and with either hand.

Here's a real athlete. 5.9.5, 185 pounds. Benches 400, Got cut from Bozeman high hoops as a soph. 10 ft. 1 inch hoop.

PlayerRep
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Feel free to use any meaningful stat in conference play that Falls was not as good or better than Satterwhite. I said meaningful. Falls beat, and in one case tied, Satterwhite in every single meaningful stat in conference play.
maroonandsilver
eGriz Club
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Satterwhite is a Griz. Falls is not. Time to move on.
PlayerRep
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maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:43 am
Satterwhite is a Griz. Falls is not. Time to move on.
Feel free to do so.
braves84
Posts: 949
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:19 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:25 pm
Feel free to use any meaningful stat in conference play that Falls was not as good or better than Satterwhite. I said meaningful. Falls beat, and in one case tied, Satterwhite in every single meaningful stat in conference play.
Falls- 30 mpg, .415% from 3 point land, .405% overall from the field, 2.0 rpg, 6.5. PPG.

Satterwhite- 26.8 mpg, .410% from 3 point land, .435% overall from the field, 2.7.rpg, 10.2 PPG.

Three point percentage was basically a wash,.

Overall percentage from the floor went to satterwhite - .435% to .405% for falls

Satterwhite averaged more rpg. More than falls 2.7 to 2.0.

Satterwhite- PPG was 10.2 compared to falls 6.5. in 3.2 less mpg.

Those are all

meaningful stats imo.

Spin away.
UMFan12
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:44 pm
I'm glad Braves or someone brought up the conference stats. Here are some conference stats.

Falls shot 41.5% from 3 in conference. I think 41.5% for Falls is better than Satterwhite's 41%.

Had 62 assists to 26 TO. Ratio of 2.4. Best on the team. 2d best was Vasquez with a 1.8 ratio.

Satterwhite was 27 assists to 31 TO. A .9 ratio.

So, Falls has 2.3 times as many assists, and fewer TO. That alone would make Falls a starter over Statterwhite.

Falls had 30 steals. Satterwhite had 17. Sure, Satterwhite is some great defender.

Falls had 7 blocks. Satterwhite had 5. What, Satterwhite can't even block a shot.

Falls shot 83% from the line. Satterwhite was 77%.

There is not a chance in hell that Satterwhite would have started over Falls.
Falls may have had more steals and blocks, but he had more than double the amount of personal fouls, and fouled out of 6 games.(about 1 in 4 games).
Satterwhite has both a higher steal to personal foul ratio and block to personal foul ratio.
And yes, Satterwhite is a significantly better defender than Timmy “Fouls”.
Versatility is one of the biggest parts of defense, and TDC loves versitality. If you’re telling me Satterwhite is less versatile than Timmy “Fouls” I don’t know what to say.
UMFan12
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:49 pm
UMFan12 wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:30 pm
Here you go PR. Here are the numbers. Throw in the fact Satterwhite is a better, more versatile, less foul prone defender and it’s not even close who Travis would rather have.

Falls | Satterwhite
29.6 | 24.4 MPG
6.6 | 9 PPG
2.3 | 2.4 RPG
2.8 | 1.5 APG
1.3 | 1.0 SPG
3.4(105 total) |1.7(48 total) FPG/Total Personal Fouls
1.6 | 0.9 AST/TO Ratio
2 | 0 Technical Fouls
6 | 0(0 for his career) Foul Outs
41.6(77-185) |42.7(91-213) FG%
38.3(23-60) | 38.0(30-79) 3PT%
65.9(27-41) | 77.8(49-63) FT%
Pretty clear who is not only the better player but also the better and (very slightly) more efficient scorer.

And for the advanced stats folks:
Falls | Satterwhite
47.8% | 49.8% eFG%
50.2% | 54.2% TS%
0.371 | 0.583 Steals/Personal Foul(higher=better)
0.114 | 0.167 Blocks/Personal Foul(same as above)

And just in case anybody wanted to debate athleticism for some reason, here you go.



Give it up PR.
Falls can do that either direction and with either hand.

Here's a real athlete. 5.9.5, 185 pounds. Benches 400, Got cut from Bozeman high hoops as a soph. 10 ft. 1 inch hoop.

Are you comparing a one handed rim grazer at almost 5’10” to a switchhand dunk at 6’4” coming off a knee injury? Yeah ok. Don’t even mention the 360 windmill with his LEFT on Satterwhites page recently. Talk about petty

When has Falls ever done anything CLOSE to that. You just never will admit your wrong? Must be fun to be around. Ego through the roof
Last edited by UMFan12 on Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
UMFan12
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:25 pm
Feel free to use any meaningful stat in conference play that Falls was not as good or better than Satterwhite. I said meaningful. Falls beat, and in one case tied, Satterwhite in every single meaningful stat in conference play.
For one thing, you just said Falls could switch hand dunk in wither hand.🤦🏼‍♂️ Let me guess, he can 360 windmill with his left like Satterwhite also right!

Anyways, here you go again PR, and yet again, they tell the exact same story. And no, personal fouls are not a pointless stat, neither is eFG% or TS%. These are modern analytics. They are in use for a reason. They factor in the amount of 3 point attemots relative to 2s, and the free throw %. Here it is
Falls | Satterwhite
30.85 | 27 MPG
6.5 | 10 PPG
1.95 | 2.65 RPG
3.15 | 1.55 APG
1.50 | 0.9 SPG
1.3 | 1.6 TOPG
3.55 😳| 1.6 PF(personal fouls)
40.5 | 41.6 FG%
41.5 | 40.3 3PT%
83.3%(limited attempts) | 78.7% Ft%
47.5% | 49.1% eFG%
50.4% | 53.6% TS%
2.4 | 1 Ast/To
0.099 | 0.156 Blk/Pf (blocks per personal foul)
0.423 | 0.562 Stl/Pf(steals/personal foul)
What is your excuse this time? I thought he was better or tied in every category? 🤡
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Conference only stats last season:

ASSIST/TURNOVER RATIO Cl GP Assists Avg T-Overs Avg Ratio
1. Jonah Radebaugh-NC SR 20 148 7.4 45 2.3 3.3
2. Timmy Falls-UM JR 20 63 3.2 26 1.3 2.4
3. Bryce Fowler-SAC JR 19 66 3.5 32 1.7 2.1
4. Frey,Harald-MSU SR 20 82 4.1 41 2.1 2.0
5. Cameron Shelton-NAU SO 20 97 4.9 53 2.7 1.8
6. Brooks DeBisschop-NAU SR 19 58 3.1 32 1.7 1.8
7. Ellis Magnuson-EWU FR 20 68 3.4 45 2.3 1.5
8. Mason Peatling-EWU SR 20 75 3.8 52 2.6 1.4
9. Holland Woods-PSU JR 20 101 5.1 77 3.9 1.3
10. Sayeed Pridgett-UM SR 20 85 4.3 67 3.4 1.3
11. John Knight III-SUU JR 20 66 3.3 61 3.1 1.1



STEALS Cl GP No. Avg/G
1. Holland Woods-PSU JR 20 44 2.2
2. Osi Nwachukwu-SAC SR 20 38 1.9
3. Izayah Mauriohooho-L-SAC SR 20 36 1.8
4. Trevon Allen-UI SR 20 35 1.8
5. Kim Aiken Jr.-EWU SO 20 33 1.7
6. Josh Vazquez-UM FR 20 31 1.6
7. Timmy Falls-UM JR 20 30 1.5
Cameron Shelton-NAU SO 20 30 1.5
Frey,Harald-MSU SR 20 30 1.5
10. Jonah Radebaugh-NC SR 20 29 1.5
11. Brooks DeBisschop-NAU SR 19 25 1.3
12. Jacob Davison-EWU JR 20 24 1.2
13. Sayeed Pridgett-UM SR 20 22 1.1
14. Jerrick Harding-WSU 18 19 1.1
15. Brandon Davis-SAC SO 20 21 1.1
John Knight III-SUU JR 20 21 1.1


FREE THROW PCT Cl GP FT FTA Pct
1. JOHN, Cody-WSU SR 20 60 67 .896
2. Jerrick Harding-WSU 18 66 74 .892
3. Frey,Harald-MSU SR 20 109 127 .858
4. Cameron Oluyitan-SUU SR 20 55 65 .846
5. Holland Woods-PSU JR 20 104 124 .839
Timmy Falls - 83.3%
6. Trevon Allen-UI SR 20 84 101 .832
7. STUTZMAN, Jared-ISU SR 20 53 66 .803
8. John Knight III-SUU JR 20 81 105 .771
9. Belo,Jubrile-MSU SO 20 97 128 .758
10. Jacob Davison-EWU JR 20 76 101 .752
11. Cameron Shelton-NAU SO 20 88 120 .733
12. Joshua Patton-SAC SR 20 70 100 .700
13. Sayeed Pridgett-UM SR 20 70 104 .673
14. Mason Peatling-EWU SR 20 70 110 .636
15. PORTER, Malik-ISU JR 20 52 82 .634

Falls, Vasquez, Samuelson and Manuel must not have had enough shots to make official list.

They shot: 83.%, 100%, 90.6%, and 80%. Griz shot 74.5% in conference.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:43 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:25 pm
Feel free to use any meaningful stat in conference play that Falls was not as good or better than Satterwhite. I said meaningful. Falls beat, and in one case tied, Satterwhite in every single meaningful stat in conference play.
For one thing, you just said Falls could switch hand dunk in wither hand.🤦🏼‍♂️ Let me guess, he can 360 windmill with his left like Satterwhite also right!

Anyways, here you go again PR, and yet again, they tell the exact same story. And no, personal fouls are not a pointless stat, neither is eFG% or TS%. These are modern analytics. They are in use for a reason. They factor in the amount of 3 point attemots relative to 2s, and the free throw %. Here it is
Falls | Satterwhite
30.85 | 27 MPG
6.5 | 10 PPG
1.95 | 2.65 RPG
3.15 | 1.55 APG
1.50 | 0.9 SPG
1.3 | 1.6 TOPG
3.55 😳| 1.6 PF(personal fouls)
40.5 | 41.6 FG%
41.5 | 40.3 3PT%
83.3%(limited attempts) | 78.7% Ft%
47.5% | 49.1% eFG%
50.4% | 53.6% TS%
2.4 | 1 Ast/To
0.099 | 0.156 Blk/Pf (blocks per personal foul)
0.423 | 0.562 Stl/Pf(steals/personal foul)
What is your excuse this time? I thought he was better or tied in every category? 🤡
Pretty much meaningless, as I said. You are being essentially idiotic. You obviously don't understand the game. Must not have ever played it.

Assists, and assist to TO ratio, are each 10 times. more important than fouls. Fouls is almost meaningless. Good and aggressive defenders get extra foulsl.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:12 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:49 pm


Falls can do that either direction and with either hand.

Here's a real athlete. 5.9.5, 185 pounds. Benches 400, Got cut from Bozeman high hoops as a soph. 10 ft. 1 inch hoop.

Are you comparing a one handed rim grazer at almost 5’10” to a switchhand dunk at 6’4” coming off a knee injury? Yeah ok. Don’t even mention the 360 windmill with his LEFT on Satterwhites page recently. Talk about petty

When has Falls ever done anything CLOSE to that. You just never will admit your wrong? Must be fun to be around. Ego through the roof
My 5'9.5, 185 pound white guy, who was benching 400 at the times, could also do a windmill.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28025
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

braves84 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:55 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:25 pm
Feel free to use any meaningful stat in conference play that Falls was not as good or better than Satterwhite. I said meaningful. Falls beat, and in one case tied, Satterwhite in every single meaningful stat in conference play.
Falls- 30 mpg, .415% from 3 point land, .405% overall from the field, 2.0 rpg, 6.5. PPG.

Satterwhite- 26.8 mpg, .410% from 3 point land, .435% overall from the field, 2.7.rpg, 10.2 PPG.

Three point percentage was basically a wash,.

Overall percentage from the floor went to satterwhite - .435% to .405% for falls

Satterwhite averaged more rpg. More than falls 2.7 to 2.0.

Satterwhite- PPG was 10.2 compared to falls 6.5. in 3.2 less mpg.

Those are all

meaningful stats imo.

Spin away.
Assists, assist to TO ratio, and steals are more important. Satterwhite got way too many TO.

Show us Satterwhite's stat were he was ranked in the official conference stats. I showed Falls' to you.
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