Satterwhite v. Falls - 3-Pt Shooting

Griz & Big Sky Conference Basketball
UncleRico
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:11 pm

fanofzoo wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:50 am
If we didn't have Timmy people would sit and politely clap like a tennis game, he brought the game.
I 100% agree with this! Those are things you just can't quantify.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Oops, double post.
Last edited by PlayerRep on Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

braves84 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:35 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:06 am


Playing both 1 and 2 guards, he was no. 2 in the conference in the conference season. That is very good. You can try to pooh pooh it all you want, but that just shows how little you know about basketball. No one would say that being no. 2 in the ratio during the conference season was not very good.
Just stating what tad Boyle the coach for the Colorado buffaloes stated to the Denver post in a 2015 article.

Yeah, I know he doesn't have any credibility either, just a head coach for a pac-12 team, what does he know.

And no I'm not posting a link, it won't do any good, you'll just discredit it anyway. Look it up your self.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... abT1N0cuzF
Oh well, here it is.
Thanks for validating what I have been saying all along. The Ratio is very important.

“It’s the first thing I look for,” Boyle said. “I look at assists and turnovers. I want every player, whether it’s a post player or a perimeter player, to take pride in his assist-to-turnover ratio.”

"For post players (centers and forwards), Boyle wants to see a 1-to-1 ratio. Perimeter players (wing forwards and shooting guards) should be 2-to-1, with twice as many assists as turnovers. Point guards, Boyle said, should strive for a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."

Falls played both 1 guard, 2 guard and even some 3. His 2.4 assist to TO ratio in conference play was just outstanding. The Colo. coach and this article just validated that.

Also, note that the coach said a point guard should "strive" for the 3-1 ratio.

1 player in Big Sky had over 3 in the ratio, in conf play. Again, Falls was 2d. Looking at last season's Pac-12 stat website, I see that the best Colorado player had a 1.7 ratio. He was ranked 14th in the conference. In the whole conference, one player had a 3.3 ratio and 1 had a 3.0 ratio. Only 4 player's had ratio's above Falls' 2.4.

In the ncaa stats website for last year, 9 players had ratios of 3 or better. This is what you said: "For a division 1 pt. guard the assist to turnover ratio to should be 3.0 to 1.0," 9 players in D-1 basketball were 3-1 or better. Are you saying all the rest of the thousands of ncaa D-I players weren't up to snuff? You never did play basketball, did you? I detect that in some of the dumb stuff you say.

Parker, the transfer, had a season ratio of 1.8, and a conference ratio of 1.0. Last season. 80 TO in season.

Again, all that makes Falls' ratio look pretty darn good.
UMFan12
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

*WARNING* If you do not want to witness a murder, don’t scroll down.

Okay PR here you go. I said Timmy was inconsistent and would have games going 2 for 2 for 3 and the next 0 for 4 and would cost us games? Well, turns out even I didn’t know just how right I was.

Timmy Falls stats in 13 Montana losses this season(ohhh boy here we go)
MPG: 28.9
PPG:5.38
RPG:2.38
APG:2.62
FG%:40.6%
Alright, I know what you’re thinkng, not to bad so far right? Well, here is where it takes a turn for the worst, and what a surprise PR, it’s when you bring in the shooting stats.
3PT: 29.2%😳🤮(7 three point makes in 13 games)
FT:58.3%🤔(7 free throws made in 13 GAMES🤮)
PF:3.62
Falls had 4 or more fouls in 9 of 13 Montana losses, but fouls don’t matter and are meaningless, right PR?
TO:1.85
AST/To: 1.42(geez, so elite)
STL:1.0(less than 1 steal per 3 personal fouls😂)
BLK:0.15
Foul Outs:3, yes Timmy fouled out in almost 1 of 4 Montana losses.

Notable Timmy Falls performances that cost us games or very much helped to do so:
-January 4th, 2020 @ UNC , L 74-66
Kendal Manuel dropped 30 in this game, and how much help from Timmy does he get?
How about this: 0pts, 3 rebs, 3 ast, 1 stl, 5 personal fouls(fouled out) on 0-7 shooting including 0-1 from the arc🤮. Good lord.
To make this worse, these were 2 of the top 3 projected teams in the conference pre season and this was our first conference game with a lot of buzz around it.
-February 27,2020 @ NAU, L 57-56
Samuelson had 19, Manuel 16 Pridgett 8 on 4/6
And here is what they got from Timmy in a one point loss
2pts, 2 reb, 5 ast, 0 stls, 0 blks, 3 PFs, on 1/2 shooting, 0/1 for 3 and 0/1 from the line in.......29 minutes👌
And finally
- March 7th, 2020 vs SUU, L 85-80 OT
Pridgett 27 pts, Manuel 19 pts, Samuelson 12 pts, and yet again. What do you think the big 3 got from the other so called “vet”. Who played nothing like a “vet”?
Here you go:
2pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 2 stl, 4 personal fouls on 1/5 shooting and 0/1 from the arc with 2 turnovers in 30 minutes.
What an important player. I don’t think we can live without him PR.

And would you look at that, the stat PR called important was just a 1.42 in Montana losses. But let me guess, he did bad at that stat this time so it’s no longer important? Right PR?

And just for the heck of it: Here is how fast Timmy fouled out of each loss he fouled out in
He fouled out in 19 minutes in a 72-63 L @ New Mexico (impressive speed)
He fouled out in 31 minutes with 0 points in a 74-66 L @ UNC (once again on 0/7 shooting)
He fouled out on 27 minutes in our very next loss, 85-87 @ Weber State. Now, this game was widely considered as the best game in Timmy Falls career as a Griz, as he had 16 points, but what does he go and do to ruin it? Foul out!👍
You took an L on this one PR. Give it up and take the small dent to your ego. It’s really not that difficult.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

12,

Without Falls the team would have lost a half dozen more games last year.

How many games did you attend in person? Did you see how much the refs picked on him? Most everyone who attended games consistently did. He often guarded the best perimeter player. He often held them in check or better, or at least threw them off part of their games. Most very good and aggressive perimeter defenders who average big minutes, get a lot fouls. It's part of the game.

Falls was the most popular player on the team. According to the Roundball Club guys.

No matter how many dumb and irrelevant stats and assertions you make, Falls is a significant loss.

Satterwhite is not going to make up for what Falls brought to the team.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:50 pm
*WARNING* If you do not want to witness a murder, don’t scroll down.

Okay PR here you go. I said Timmy was inconsistent and would have games going 2 for 2 for 3 and the next 0 for 4 and would cost us games? Well, turns out even I didn’t know just how right I was.

Timmy Falls stats in 13 Montana losses this season(ohhh boy here we go)
MPG: 28.9
PPG:5.38
RPG:2.38
APG:2.62
FG%:40.6%
Alright, I know what you’re thinkng, not to bad so far right? Well, here is where it takes a turn for the worst, and what a surprise PR, it’s when you bring in the shooting stats.
3PT: 29.2%😳🤮(7 three point makes in 13 games)
FT:58.3%🤔(7 free throws made in 13 GAMES🤮)
PF:3.62
Falls had 4 or more fouls in 9 of 13 Montana losses, but fouls don’t matter and are meaningless, right PR?
TO:1.85
AST/To: 1.42(geez, so elite)
STL:1.0(less than 1 steal per 3 personal fouls😂)
BLK:0.15
Foul Outs:3, yes Timmy fouled out in almost 1 of 4 Montana losses.

Notable Timmy Falls performances that cost us games or very much helped to do so:
-January 4th, 2020 @ UNC , L 74-66
Kendal Manuel dropped 30 in this game, and how much help from Timmy does he get?
How about this: 0pts, 3 rebs, 3 ast, 1 stl, 5 personal fouls(fouled out) on 0-7 shooting including 0-1 from the arc🤮. Good lord.
To make this worse, these were 2 of the top 3 projected teams in the conference pre season and this was our first conference game with a lot of buzz around it.
-February 27,2020 @ NAU, L 57-56
Samuelson had 19, Manuel 16 Pridgett 8 on 4/6
And here is what they got from Timmy in a one point loss
2pts, 2 reb, 5 ast, 0 stls, 0 blks, 3 PFs, on 1/2 shooting, 0/1 for 3 and 0/1 from the line in.......29 minutes👌
And finally
- March 7th, 2020 vs SUU, L 85-80 OT
Pridgett 27 pts, Manuel 19 pts, Samuelson 12 pts, and yet again. What do you think the big 3 got from the other so called “vet”. Who played nothing like a “vet”?
Here you go:
2pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 2 stl, 4 personal fouls on 1/5 shooting and 0/1 from the arc with 2 turnovers in 30 minutes.
What an important player. I don’t think we can live without him PR.

And would you look at that, the stat PR called important was just a 1.42 in Montana losses. But let me guess, he did bad at that stat this time so it’s no longer important? Right PR?

And just for the heck of it: Here is how fast Timmy fouled out of each loss he fouled out in
He fouled out in 19 minutes in a 72-63 L @ New Mexico (impressive speed)
He fouled out in 31 minutes with 0 points in a 74-66 L @ UNC (once again on 0/7 shooting)
He fouled out on 27 minutes in our very next loss, 85-87 @ Weber State. Now, this game was widely considered as the best game in Timmy Falls career as a Griz, as he had 16 points, but what does he go and do to ruin it? Foul out!👍
You took an L on this one PR. Give it up and take the small dent to your ego. It’s really not that difficult.
You took the L on this one. You don't understand the game. Neither does Braves. Trying to tell us that a guy who shot the same conference percentage, in 3's and had shot much worse than Falls in the two prior years, was a better 3 point shooter because he took 19 more shots. That is about the dumbest and funniest argument I have ever seen in my life.

As I said in another post, UM would have lost a half dozen more games without Falls.

As guys like Rico and GrizRule. Both have coached. I think Rico has 20 or 25 years of coaching under his belt. He had season tickets last year, and attended most games.
UMFan12
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:01 pm
12,

Without Falls the team would have lost a half dozen more games last year.

How many games did you attend in person? Did you see how much the refs picked on him? Most everyone who attended games consistently did. He often guarded the best perimeter player. He often held them in check or better, or at least threw them off part of their games. Most very good and aggressive perimeter defenders who average big minutes, get a lot fouls. It's part of the game.

Falls was the most popular player on the team. According to the Roundball Club guys.

No matter how many dumb and irrelevant stats and assertions you make, Falls is a significant loss.

Satterwhite is not going to make up for what Falls brought to the team.
You’re right, how dumb of me!
There is no way Satterwhite is picking up all 3.4 fouls per game we’ll be missing with no Timmy. We need 2 or 3 guys to pick up that loss. I don’t know if we can do it.
I mean, for heck sake. Timmy Falls was 25th in the nation in fouls per game last year, and 2nd amongst guards. That isn’t a signal screaming “overrated defender” at all!
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-personal

And to PR who said I wasn’t watching games when I said fouls were very much a problem for us.
Well, guess who was right again?.......Not PR.....What a surprise

Team
10.9 FTM 15.1 FTA

Opponent
16.8 FTM 23.5 FTA

As a team, Montana ranked in the bottom 100 for both free throws attempted and amount given up.
Yes, our opponents did actually MAKE more free throws per game than we ATTEMPTED.
Falls, being a guy who draws falls at a VERY low clip and gives them up at a rate that ranks 2nd highest in the nation amongst guards, was a very large part of the problem.
Trust me PR, I can guarentee I am not the only one who saw this problem. Timmy Falls just may be the most overrated defender in the HISTORY of Montana basketball.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

UMFan12 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:20 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:01 pm
12,

Without Falls the team would have lost a half dozen more games last year.

How many games did you attend in person? Did you see how much the refs picked on him? Most everyone who attended games consistently did. He often guarded the best perimeter player. He often held them in check or better, or at least threw them off part of their games. Most very good and aggressive perimeter defenders who average big minutes, get a lot fouls. It's part of the game.

Falls was the most popular player on the team. According to the Roundball Club guys.

No matter how many dumb and irrelevant stats and assertions you make, Falls is a significant loss.

Satterwhite is not going to make up for what Falls brought to the team.
You’re right, how dumb of me!
There is no way Satterwhite is picking up all 3.4 fouls per game we’ll be missing with no Timmy. We need 2 or 3 guys to pick up that loss. I don’t know if we can do it.
I mean, for heck sake. Timmy Falls was 25th in the nation in fouls per game last year, and 2nd amongst guards. That isn’t a signal screaming “overrated defender” at all!
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-personal
Feel free to tell Travis that he was over-rating Falls' defense. The coach often talked of Falls' defense.

You didn't even play high school basketball, do you?
UMFan12
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:49 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:51 pm
UMFan12 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:20 pm

You’re right, how dumb of me!
There is no way Satterwhite is picking up all 3.4 fouls per game we’ll be missing with no Timmy. We need 2 or 3 guys to pick up that loss. I don’t know if we can do it.
I mean, for heck sake. Timmy Falls was 25th in the nation in fouls per game last year, and 2nd amongst guards. That isn’t a signal screaming “overrated defender” at all!
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-personal
Feel free to tell Travis that he was over-rating Falls' defense. The coach often talked of Falls' defense.

You didn't even play high school basketball, do you?
Hmmmm, I guess you didn’t notice the praise for Falls defense stopped this year? And that he often went to Vazquez to guard the opponents best player? Did you watch the Weber OT loss? I’m guessing not? Guess who was guarding Harding? Not Falls....... But Vazquez. Take your L, PR.
GrizBall
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:07 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm
braves84 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:35 am

Just stating what tad Boyle the coach for the Colorado buffaloes stated to the Denver post in a 2015 article.

Yeah, I know he doesn't have any credibility either, just a head coach for a pac-12 team, what does he know.

And no I'm not posting a link, it won't do any good, you'll just discredit it anyway. Look it up your self.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... abT1N0cuzF
Oh well, here it is.
Thanks for validating what I have been saying all along. The Ratio is very important.

“It’s the first thing I look for,” Boyle said. “I look at assists and turnovers. I want every player, whether it’s a post player or a perimeter player, to take pride in his assist-to-turnover ratio.”

"For post players (centers and forwards), Boyle wants to see a 1-to-1 ratio. Perimeter players (wing forwards and shooting guards) should be 2-to-1, with twice as many assists as turnovers. Point guards, Boyle said, should strive for a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."

Falls played both 1 guard, 2 guard and even some 3. His 2.4 assist to TO ratio in conference play was just outstanding. The Colo. coach and this article just validated that.

Also, note that the coach said a point guard should "strive" for the 3-1 ratio.

1 player in Big Sky had over 3 in the ratio, in conf play. Again, Falls was 2d. Looking at last season's Pac-12 stat website, I see that the best Colorado player had a 1.7 ratio. He was ranked 14th in the conference. In the whole conference, one player had a 3.3 ratio and 1 had a 3.0 ratio. Only 4 player's had ratio's above Falls' 2.4.

In the ncaa stats website for last year, 9 players had ratios of 3 or better. This is what you said: "For a division 1 pt. guard the assist to turnover ratio to should be 3.0 to 1.0," 9 players in D-1 basketball were 3-1 or better. Are you saying all the rest of the thousands of ncaa D-I players weren't up to snuff? You never did play basketball, did you? I detect that in some of the dumb stuff you say.

Parker, the transfer, had a season ratio of 1.8, and a conference ratio of 1.0. Last season. 80 TO in season.

Again, all that makes Falls' ratio look pretty darn good.
Stats are fun. And stats can often be used to prove almost anything you want. As Mark Twain once said “there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”

Timmy’s conference A/TO ratio was 2.4. Sayeed’s conference A/TO was 1.3. Is there anyone on this board that would suggest that Timmy should have handled the ball more than Sayeed because he had a better A/TO ratio? If not, then what’s the point?

I believe from an offensive standpoint, Timmy and Satterwhite are a wash. Unless you desperately need a backup PG, then I would give Timmy the edge. As I stated before, I believe Satterwhite is the better defender because of his size, athleticism and ability to guard more positions.

Here’s another stat. According to Sports-Reference.com Parker's Asst% in the 2019-2020 season was 45.6%. Asst% is defined as “the percentage of teammates field goals a player assisted on while he was on the floor.” Parker finished 2nd in the entire country in this statistic. The ENTIRE country. His TO% was 32.6%. (45.6/32.6). Even giving Falls his better “conference-only” stats, his Asst%/TO% was 16.3/16.7 which is a negative and also shows that Montana had a minimal offensive reliance on him.

In addition, which player do you think got the other team’s best perimeter defender? Where do you think each player was slotted on the opposing team’s scouting report? Were teams setting up defensive strategies for Falls? Do you think they were for Parker? Everyone would agree it’s a lot easier being the 5th or 6th guy on the scouting report (which basically gets no attention) vs. being the 1st or 2nd guy on the report.

So again, stats are fun, they are great for message board arguments, but they always need to be taken with a grain of salt.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

GrizBall wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:10 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm


Thanks for validating what I have been saying all along. The Ratio is very important.

“It’s the first thing I look for,” Boyle said. “I look at assists and turnovers. I want every player, whether it’s a post player or a perimeter player, to take pride in his assist-to-turnover ratio.”

"For post players (centers and forwards), Boyle wants to see a 1-to-1 ratio. Perimeter players (wing forwards and shooting guards) should be 2-to-1, with twice as many assists as turnovers. Point guards, Boyle said, should strive for a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."

Falls played both 1 guard, 2 guard and even some 3. His 2.4 assist to TO ratio in conference play was just outstanding. The Colo. coach and this article just validated that.

Also, note that the coach said a point guard should "strive" for the 3-1 ratio.

1 player in Big Sky had over 3 in the ratio, in conf play. Again, Falls was 2d. Looking at last season's Pac-12 stat website, I see that the best Colorado player had a 1.7 ratio. He was ranked 14th in the conference. In the whole conference, one player had a 3.3 ratio and 1 had a 3.0 ratio. Only 4 player's had ratio's above Falls' 2.4.

In the ncaa stats website for last year, 9 players had ratios of 3 or better. This is what you said: "For a division 1 pt. guard the assist to turnover ratio to should be 3.0 to 1.0," 9 players in D-1 basketball were 3-1 or better. Are you saying all the rest of the thousands of ncaa D-I players weren't up to snuff? You never did play basketball, did you? I detect that in some of the dumb stuff you say.

Parker, the transfer, had a season ratio of 1.8, and a conference ratio of 1.0. Last season. 80 TO in season.

Again, all that makes Falls' ratio look pretty darn good.
Stats are fun. And stats can often be used to prove almost anything you want. As Mark Twain once said “there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”

Timmy’s conference A/TO ratio was 2.4. Sayeed’s conference A/TO was 1.3. Is there anyone on this board that would suggest that Timmy should have handled the ball more than Sayeed because he had a better A/TO ratio? If not, then what’s the point?

I believe from an offensive standpoint, Timmy and Satterwhite are a wash. Unless you desperately need a backup PG, then I would give Timmy the edge. As I stated before, I believe Satterwhite is the better defender because of his size, athleticism and ability to guard more positions.

Here’s another stat. According to Sports-Reference.com Parker's Asst% in the 2019-2020 season was 45.6%. Asst% is defined as “the percentage of teammates field goals a player assisted on while he was on the floor.” Parker finished 2nd in the entire country in this statistic. The ENTIRE country. His TO% was 32.6%. (45.6/32.6). Even giving Falls his better “conference-only” stats, his Asst%/TO% was 16.3/16.7 which is a negative and also shows that Montana had a minimal offensive reliance on him.

In addition, which player do you think got the other team’s best perimeter defender? Where do you think each player was slotted on the opposing team’s scouting report? Were teams setting up defensive strategies for Falls? Do you think they were for Parker? Everyone would agree it’s a lot easier being the 5th or 6th guy on the scouting report (which basically gets no attention) vs. being the 1st or 2nd guy on the report.

So again, stats are fun, they are great for message board arguments, but they always need to be taken with a grain of salt.
The point with Pridgett is that he was also the best and leading scorer. He also dished well. Of course, any coach would want him having a lot of opportunities with the ball.

Don't know where the discussion about Parker came from, other than I noted his Ratio for comparison purposes, but I see that he averaged 10 points and 7.6 in conference.
GrizBall
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:07 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm
braves84 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:35 am

Just stating what tad Boyle the coach for the Colorado buffaloes stated to the Denver post in a 2015 article.

Yeah, I know he doesn't have any credibility either, just a head coach for a pac-12 team, what does he know.

And no I'm not posting a link, it won't do any good, you'll just discredit it anyway. Look it up your self.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... abT1N0cuzF
Oh well, here it is.
Thanks for validating what I have been saying all along. The Ratio is very important.

“It’s the first thing I look for,” Boyle said. “I look at assists and turnovers. I want every player, whether it’s a post player or a perimeter player, to take pride in his assist-to-turnover ratio.”

"For post players (centers and forwards), Boyle wants to see a 1-to-1 ratio. Perimeter players (wing forwards and shooting guards) should be 2-to-1, with twice as many assists as turnovers. Point guards, Boyle said, should strive for a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."

Falls played both 1 guard, 2 guard and even some 3. His 2.4 assist to TO ratio in conference play was just outstanding. The Colo. coach and this article just validated that.

Also, note that the coach said a point guard should "strive" for the 3-1 ratio.

1 player in Big Sky had over 3 in the ratio, in conf play. Again, Falls was 2d. Looking at last season's Pac-12 stat website, I see that the best Colorado player had a 1.7 ratio. He was ranked 14th in the conference. In the whole conference, one player had a 3.3 ratio and 1 had a 3.0 ratio. Only 4 player's had ratio's above Falls' 2.4. [/b

Parker, the transfer, had a season ratio of 1.8, and a conference ratio of 1.0. Last season. 80 TO in season.

Again, all that makes Falls' ratio look pretty darn good.


I am not a message board troll and I truly respectfully enjoy the message board conversation about Griz basketball. But with all due respect you were the one that brought Parker’s stats in the conversation.

Do you think TDC brought Parker in as a junior to come off the bench behind Falls? Who else starts at PG? Do you think Parker would have come to UM if he wasn’t confident he would start? Parker will be given the ball from Day 1. If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that. But everything else is just message board conversation.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

GrizBall wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:22 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:00 pm


Thanks for validating what I have been saying all along. The Ratio is very important.

“It’s the first thing I look for,” Boyle said. “I look at assists and turnovers. I want every player, whether it’s a post player or a perimeter player, to take pride in his assist-to-turnover ratio.”

"For post players (centers and forwards), Boyle wants to see a 1-to-1 ratio. Perimeter players (wing forwards and shooting guards) should be 2-to-1, with twice as many assists as turnovers. Point guards, Boyle said, should strive for a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."

Falls played both 1 guard, 2 guard and even some 3. His 2.4 assist to TO ratio in conference play was just outstanding. The Colo. coach and this article just validated that.

Also, note that the coach said a point guard should "strive" for the 3-1 ratio.

1 player in Big Sky had over 3 in the ratio, in conf play. Again, Falls was 2d. Looking at last season's Pac-12 stat website, I see that the best Colorado player had a 1.7 ratio. He was ranked 14th in the conference. In the whole conference, one player had a 3.3 ratio and 1 had a 3.0 ratio. Only 4 player's had ratio's above Falls' 2.4. [/b

Parker, the transfer, had a season ratio of 1.8, and a conference ratio of 1.0. Last season. 80 TO in season.

Again, all that makes Falls' ratio look pretty darn good.


I am not a message board troll and I truly respectfully enjoy the message board conversation about Griz basketball. But with all due respect you were the one that brought Parker’s stats in the conversation.

Do you think TDC brought Parker in as a junior to come off the bench behind Falls? Who else starts at PG? Do you think Parker would have come to UM if he wasn’t confident he would start? Parker will be given the ball from Day 1. If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that. But everything else is just message board conversation.


Got it. I certainly understand how threads evolve and am fine with that. Nevertheless, some background.

The bulk of the conversation was Satterwhite v Falls. See thread title. I mentioned Parker’s Ratio only to show that many good point guards don’t have a 3 to 1 ratio, not to compare to Falls or start a discussion a discussion involving Parker.

I agree with your assessment of Parker. I believe he got Falls’ scholarship. He was deemed to be too good to pass up. I assume he's the starter at the point and will be good. Have never seen him play or practice, tho.

The conversation started with 3 point shooting. I disagreed that Satterwhite was better. I didn't say Falls was better either. Same percentage in conference play last season. Falls had a much higher percentage than Satterwhite in their frosh and soph years. Then, it was asserted that Satterwhite was better because he took 19 more 3 point shots in conference play. I called BS on that.

Along the way, I was asked twice to name the starting lineup had Falls been here. I didn't. Then a lineup came from one of the jokers putting Gaskins and Satterwhite ahead of Falls.

I then said Falls would have started over one of those 2. The thread moved to other subjects, including Falls' being no. 2 in conference in the Ratio in conference play. Falls was also ranked in the conference in steals. Then, the jokers started focusing on other stats, including fouls. Also, a bunch of largely meaningless stats, at least in this situation.

The main thread was locked somewhere along the way.

This is essentially what I was discussing. "If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that."

It was never about the point. Falls can play 1, 2 or even 3, or UM might have gone at times with a 3 guard offense. Falls could get some minutes at point, if Vasquez or Gaskins didn't get the minutes. I don't know much about the other new guys.

There you have it. More than you ever wanted to know about the subject. Thanks for not being an internet troll.
Mousegriz
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:14 am

PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:42 am
GrizBall wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:22 pm


I am not a message board troll and I truly respectfully enjoy the message board conversation about Griz basketball. But with all due respect you were the one that brought Parker’s stats in the conversation.

Do you think TDC brought Parker in as a junior to come off the bench behind Falls? Who else starts at PG? Do you think Parker would have come to UM if he wasn’t confident he would start? Parker will be given the ball from Day 1. If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that. But everything else is just message board conversation.
Got it. I certainly understand how threads evolve and am fine with that. Nevertheless, some background.

The bulk of the conversation was Satterwhite v Falls. See thread title. I mentioned Parker’s Ratio only to show that many good point guards don’t have a 3 to 1 ratio, not to compare to Falls or start a discussion a discussion involving Parker.

I agree with your assessment of Parker. I believe he got Falls’ scholarship. He was deemed to be too good to pass up. I assume he's the starter at the point and will be good. Have never seen him play or practice, tho.

The conversation started with 3 point shooting. I disagreed that Satterwhite was better. I didn't say Falls was better either. Same percentage in conference play last season. Falls had a much higher percentage than Satterwhite in their frosh and soph years. Then, it was asserted that Satterwhite was better because he took 19 more 3 point shots in conference play. I called BS on that.

Along the way, I was asked twice to name the starting lineup had Falls been here. I didn't. Then a lineup came from one of the jokers putting Gaskins and Satterwhite ahead of Falls.

I then said Falls would have started over one of those 2. The thread moved to other subjects, including Falls' being no. 2 in conference in the Ratio in conference play. Falls was also ranked in the conference in steals. Then, the jokers started focusing on other stats, including fouls. Also, a bunch of largely meaningless stats, at least in this situation.

The main thread was locked somewhere along the way.

This is essentially what I was discussing. "If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that."

It was never about the point. Falls can play 1, 2 or even 3, or UM might have gone at times with a 3 guard offense. Falls could get some minutes at point, if Vasquez or Gaskins didn't get the minutes. I don't know much about the other new guys.

There you have it. More than you ever wanted to know about the subject. Thanks for not being an internet troll.
Falls is gone so the entire thread and all the subplots seem a waste of time. Falls won't play 1,2, or 3 for the Griz ever again.I enjoyed Timmy at times but got tired of the pouty attitude that seemed to evident relative to his coaches, the refs and teammates. If he was the most popular in the team I sure didn't sense it from his interactions with teammates over the years. He did seem to catch refs' eyes more than he should have....but if he just chilled out bit and didn't pout/whine on about every call that wouldn't have been the case.

As to his 3 point shooting.....one of the best "side spinners" I've ever seen shoot the ball. Not that many other side spinners out there though.
GrizBall
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:07 pm

Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:03 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:42 am


Got it. I certainly understand how threads evolve and am fine with that. Nevertheless, some background.

The bulk of the conversation was Satterwhite v Falls. See thread title. I mentioned Parker’s Ratio only to show that many good point guards don’t have a 3 to 1 ratio, not to compare to Falls or start a discussion a discussion involving Parker.

I agree with your assessment of Parker. I believe he got Falls’ scholarship. He was deemed to be too good to pass up. I assume he's the starter at the point and will be good. Have never seen him play or practice, tho.

The conversation started with 3 point shooting. I disagreed that Satterwhite was better. I didn't say Falls was better either. Same percentage in conference play last season. Falls had a much higher percentage than Satterwhite in their frosh and soph years. Then, it was asserted that Satterwhite was better because he took 19 more 3 point shots in conference play. I called BS on that.

Along the way, I was asked twice to name the starting lineup had Falls been here. I didn't. Then a lineup came from one of the jokers putting Gaskins and Satterwhite ahead of Falls.

I then said Falls would have started over one of those 2. The thread moved to other subjects, including Falls' being no. 2 in conference in the Ratio in conference play. Falls was also ranked in the conference in steals. Then, the jokers started focusing on other stats, including fouls. Also, a bunch of largely meaningless stats, at least in this situation.

The main thread was locked somewhere along the way.

This is essentially what I was discussing. "If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that."

It was never about the point. Falls can play 1, 2 or even 3, or UM might have gone at times with a 3 guard offense. Falls could get some minutes at point, if Vasquez or Gaskins didn't get the minutes. I don't know much about the other new guys.

There you have it. More than you ever wanted to know about the subject. Thanks for not being an internet troll.
Falls is gone so the entire thread and all the subplots seem a waste of time. Falls won't play 1,2, or 3 for the Griz ever again.I enjoyed Timmy at times but got tired of the pouty attitude that seemed to evident relative to his coaches, the refs and teammates. If he was the most popular in the team I sure didn't sense it from his interactions with teammates over the years. He did seem to catch refs' eyes more than he should have....but if he just chilled out bit and didn't pout/whine on about every call that wouldn't have been the case.

As to his 3 point shooting.....one of the best "side spinners" I've ever seen shoot the ball. Not that many other side spinners out there though.
For the record, I believe Timmy was a valuable contributor to championship Griz basketball and will be missed.

And I also believe there is a chance that we haven’t seen the last of him in a Griz jersey. TDC isn’t the type of dude just to throw a kid like that to the curb. Falls walking out on senior night would be a great way to close a pretty crazy career.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:03 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:42 am


Got it. I certainly understand how threads evolve and am fine with that. Nevertheless, some background.

The bulk of the conversation was Satterwhite v Falls. See thread title. I mentioned Parker’s Ratio only to show that many good point guards don’t have a 3 to 1 ratio, not to compare to Falls or start a discussion a discussion involving Parker.

I agree with your assessment of Parker. I believe he got Falls’ scholarship. He was deemed to be too good to pass up. I assume he's the starter at the point and will be good. Have never seen him play or practice, tho.

The conversation started with 3 point shooting. I disagreed that Satterwhite was better. I didn't say Falls was better either. Same percentage in conference play last season. Falls had a much higher percentage than Satterwhite in their frosh and soph years. Then, it was asserted that Satterwhite was better because he took 19 more 3 point shots in conference play. I called BS on that.

Along the way, I was asked twice to name the starting lineup had Falls been here. I didn't. Then a lineup came from one of the jokers putting Gaskins and Satterwhite ahead of Falls.

I then said Falls would have started over one of those 2. The thread moved to other subjects, including Falls' being no. 2 in conference in the Ratio in conference play. Falls was also ranked in the conference in steals. Then, the jokers started focusing on other stats, including fouls. Also, a bunch of largely meaningless stats, at least in this situation.

The main thread was locked somewhere along the way.

This is essentially what I was discussing. "If you want to question would have started at the 2 & 3 between Satterwhite, Gaskin, Falls, and Vasquez, I understand that."

It was never about the point. Falls can play 1, 2 or even 3, or UM might have gone at times with a 3 guard offense. Falls could get some minutes at point, if Vasquez or Gaskins didn't get the minutes. I don't know much about the other new guys.

There you have it. More than you ever wanted to know about the subject. Thanks for not being an internet troll.
Falls is gone so the entire thread and all the subplots seem a waste of time. Falls won't play 1,2, or 3 for the Griz ever again.I enjoyed Timmy at times but got tired of the pouty attitude that seemed to evident relative to his coaches, the refs and teammates. If he was the most popular in the team I sure didn't sense it from his interactions with teammates over the years. He did seem to catch refs' eyes more than he should have....but if he just chilled out bit and didn't pout/whine on about every call that wouldn't have been the case.

As to his 3 point shooting.....one of the best "side spinners" I've ever seen shoot the ball. Not that many other side spinners out there though.
See GrizBall's post where he wonders if Falls might be back sometime.

Falls' popularity was with the fans.

The board discusses players who are going, or coming, or not even associated with UM in any respect, all the time. In addition, much of the discussion was about Satterwhite, who is on the roster. I learned alot about him in the discussion.

Yup, over the years, he attracted the attention of many of the refs. But, last year, he was often treated unfairly by them.
maroonandsilver
eGriz Club
Posts: 1869
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:25 am

Mousegriz wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:10 am
Wasn't Timmy out early last year with a broken hand caused by pounding his hand against a wall in frustration? Led team in fouls and pouted/ignored teammates/coaches. Now he's apparently not met academic standards to remain with a team he's contributed on for 3 straight years.

Sounds like the kid needs to grow up a bit and the team will be just fine without him.

Now just hope there is a season!
Yes, Timmy lost time because he broke his hand in frustration in practice. He also lost his second summer in Missoula, when he didn't concentrate on academics, losing summer practice time as well as the opportunity to to work summer camps as a result. Then, of course, he lost the chance to play in the Bahamas Showcase as well as subsequent games because he called a coach a "f###[#]' and stormed off yelling "why am I even on this f###[#] team?!"
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

maroonandsilver wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:22 pm
Mousegriz wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:10 am
Wasn't Timmy out early last year with a broken hand caused by pounding his hand against a wall in frustration? Led team in fouls and pouted/ignored teammates/coaches. Now he's apparently not met academic standards to remain with a team he's contributed on for 3 straight years.

Sounds like the kid needs to grow up a bit and the team will be just fine without him.

Now just hope there is a season!
Yes, Timmy lost time because he broke his hand in frustration in practice. He also lost his second summer in Missoula, when he didn't concentrate on academics, losing summer practice time as well as the opportunity to to work summer camps as a result. Then, of course, he lost the chance to play in the Bahamas Showcase as well as subsequent games because he called a coach a "f###[#]' and stormed off yelling "why am I even on this f###[#] team?!"
Yet, he was also a big contributor, brought toughness to the team, helped win a lot of games for the Griz, was very popular with the fans, and his play was appreciated by a lot of people who understand basketball. The Griz won't be as good without him, in my view.
Mousegriz
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:14 am

PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:10 pm
Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:03 pm


Falls is gone so the entire thread and all the subplots seem a waste of time. Falls won't play 1,2, or 3 for the Griz ever again.I enjoyed Timmy at times but got tired of the pouty attitude that seemed to evident relative to his coaches, the refs and teammates. If he was the most popular in the team I sure didn't sense it from his interactions with teammates over the years. He did seem to catch refs' eyes more than he should have....but if he just chilled out bit and didn't pout/whine on about every call that wouldn't have been the case.

As to his 3 point shooting.....one of the best "side spinners" I've ever seen shoot the ball. Not that many other side spinners out there though.
See GrizBall's post where he wonders if Falls might be back sometime.

Falls' popularity was with the fans.

The board discusses players who are going, or coming, or not even associated with UM in any respect, all the time. In addition, much of the discussion was about Satterwhite, who is on the roster. I learned alot about him in the discussion.

Yup, over the years, he attracted the attention of many of the refs. But, last year, he was often treated unfairly by them.
Don't disagree with you. His on the court was pretty good. His off the court (and after the whistle) not so good. It appears the Griz have adequate replacements. Plenty that understand basketball a little are not losing any sleep over his departure.
PlayerRep
Posts: 28050
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Mousegriz wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:52 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:10 pm


See GrizBall's post where he wonders if Falls might be back sometime.

Falls' popularity was with the fans.

The board discusses players who are going, or coming, or not even associated with UM in any respect, all the time. In addition, much of the discussion was about Satterwhite, who is on the roster. I learned alot about him in the discussion.

Yup, over the years, he attracted the attention of many of the refs. But, last year, he was often treated unfairly by them.
Don't disagree with you. His on the court was pretty good. His off the court (and after the whistle) not so good. It appears the Griz have adequate replacements. Plenty that understand basketball a little are not losing any sleep over his departure.
There may be lots of new talent, but not any obvious leadership. Also, I wonder if so many new players, a couple of whom redshirted (a positive, but one just playing his first year in games), can be molded together in cohesive team. I wonder if players are going to wonder where their expected minutes went. DeCuire is a terrific coach, but I'm not sure anyone is that good. Also, the covid is disrupting things and will probably continue to do so.
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