Depth and Balance

I'm sure many of you on this board know the story as told by Aldo Forte, one of our all-time great football players, about the time our Griz went back to play Iowa in the late 30's. Forte and his teammates showed up the day before the game to see the stadium for the first time, only to find that Iowa was already there, practising. Forte was awed by their size and athletic ability, and mentioned this to an Iowa partisan nearby.

"Oh," said the guy. "That's our freshman team."

I think of this story often as a metaphor for the difference between big-time college athletics in this country, and athletics as it's played by the smaller schools and conferences, like Montana. Dress it up all you like by calling it "FCS" but it's still really I-AA. Second rate. Minor league.

Which makes what's going on with our basketball team so remarkable in my opinion. DeCuire has this team not only facing off against major college programs, but challenging them, playing more than credibly--even stealing a win.

Typically in the Big Sky, you'll see a few great players pass through, generally guards. One team here or there will recruit an exceptional big man. But seldom will you find a team with the depth and the balance to challenge teams from the country's major athletic programs. Yet that's what we have in this year's Griz.

With the emergence of Robbie Beasely, we have four outstanding young guards, any of whom could find roster spots at bigger schools. We've got reasonable height there and outstanding quickness, all combined with ability to shoot threes.

But the front line is even more remarkable. You just don't go 6'10, 6'9 and 6'8 across the front line in the Big Sky with kids as good as Steadman, Bannan and Owens. With three more quality bigs-- Carter-Hollinger, Henderson and Anderson--coming off the bench.

Not to mention a "mystery guest" waiting in the wings, Hunter Clarke. I've got a hunch he's going to be a special player.

Sure, I have a wish list for this team. I wish they had more bulk. Maybe a touch more veteran leadership. I sure as hell wish they'd committed fewer turnovers in the second half against Arizona.

But make no mistake. What DeCuire and his staff have built here is remarkable--not only for the Big Sky Conference, but for the history of the Montana basketball program as I know it.

I've been watching Silvertip Hoops for quite a few years and this young squad already has Montana basketball destiny firmly in focus. Without any artificial ranking, this team has potential to match or exceed the accomplishments of the elite squads of Heathcoate, Morrill, Taylor, Krystkowiak, Tinkle and Decuire's NCAA qualifiers. Some of those teams, particularly Krysko's and Tinkle's teams, were always minus one key position/player. And that's what's remarkable about this year's team: no weak positions. In fact, at two deep at every slot except post/5.

Maybe it's this team's sheer youth that has put some polish on their raw talent. They were winners in high school, and now -- after a couple early episodes of getting slapped around by USC and Georgia, they are no longer intimidated. There are some rough spots (some propensity for young players to travel, and some hesitancy in executing offense) but nothing that can't be fixed (which, especially with traveling, has to be remedied by the players themselves). But this team looks ready to turn a corner (if it hasn't already) and all that remains is applying polish to all of their varied combos on offense and defense. The Arizona announcers were marveling at one point late in the game how young the Wildcats are & how good they'll steadily get. Curious, I did a comparison of two areas between the teams: 1 -- Minutes logged by class (senior through frosh), and points scored by class. Results below:
Minutes/Points -- Arizona: Seniors -- 37/12; Juniors -- 71/26; Sophomores -- 31/17; and, Freshmen -- 61/15
Minutes/Points -- Montana: Seniors -- 24/4; Juniors -- 21/9; Sophomores -- 86/25; and, Freshmen -- 69/26

Look forward to watching this young team develop. Go Griz.

grizzlyjournal said:

I've been watching Silvertip Hoops for quite a few years and this young squad already has Montana basketball destiny firmly in focus. Without any artificial ranking, this team has potential to match or exceed the accomplishments of the elite squads of Heathcoate, Morrill, Taylor, Krystkowiak, Tinkle and Decuire's NCAA qualifiers. Some of those teams, particularly Krysko's and Tinkle's teams, were always minus one key position/player. And that's what's remarkable about this year's team: no weak positions. In fact, at two deep at every slot except post/5.

Maybe it's this team's sheer youth that has put some polish on their raw talent. They were winners in high school, and now -- after a couple early episodes of getting slapped around by USC and Georgia, they are no longer intimidated. There are some rough spots (some propensity for young players to travel, and some hesitancy in executing offense) but nothing that can't be fixed (which, especially with traveling, has to be remedied by the players themselves). But this team looks ready to turn a corner (if it hasn't already) and all that remains is applying polish to all of their varied combos on offense and defense. The Arizona announcers were marveling at one point late in the game how young the Wildcats are & how good they'll steadily get. Curious, I did a comparison of two areas between the teams: 1 -- Minutes logged by class (senior through frosh), and points scored by class. Results below:
Minutes/Points -- Arizona: Seniors -- 37/12; Juniors -- 71/26; Sophomores -- 31/17; and, Freshmen -- 61/15
Minutes/Points -- Montana: Seniors -- 24/4; Juniors -- 21/9; Sophomores -- 86/25; and, Freshmen -- 69/26

Look forward to watching this young team develop. Go Griz.

Click to expand...

I didn't get here until 1979 but agree about the depth. Every guy in the rotation can get you 15 on a given night. DJ is rusty, but Vasquez and Owens are playing assertively, Vasquez is looking to make plays rather than just avoid mistakes like last season. The freshmen clearly have no lack of confidence in their games along with D1 skills. The older newcomers just need to do what they are capable of to smooth things out.

The difference between that weekend at Cedar City and last week couldn't be clearer. Huge progress. Still expect a dud or two along the way, but big things are possible. Still early but can you recall 2 recruiting classes back to back with this amount of talent, even with Clarke behind the curve? The staff is steadily building the overall quality of the talent. it's great to watch it build up. We shall see but a new Golden Age of Griz hoops may be starting as we speak. Too bad we can't watch it in person, it bums me out on gameday to stay home.

I don't know what you are talking about. The more my depth increases, the worse my balance gets...

Merry Christmas

:lol:

Not to belabor the obvious--yet to do exactly that...

If you go back and look at some of the of the great Griz teams of the modern era--'74-'75; '91-'92; '04-'05; '09-'10; maybe one or two in the DeCuire era--you'll notice they were all senior-dominated teams. It took time for players to grow, to mature into their roles. And once they really excelled in the program, they were gone.

Not so this year.The key roles are all filled by underclassmen. And even our one senior, Steadman, might be back next year.

Happy Holidays, y'all! A better year is just around the corner.

citay said:

I'm sure many of you on this board know the story as told by Aldo Forte, one of our all-time great football players, about the time our Griz went back to play Iowa in the late 30's. Forte and his teammates showed up the day before the game to see the stadium for the first time, only to find that Iowa was already there, practising. Forte was awed by their size and athletic ability, and mentioned this to an Iowa partisan nearby.

"Oh," said the guy. "That's our freshman team."

I think of this story often as a metaphor for the difference between big-time college athletics in this country, and athletics as it's played by the smaller schools and conferences, like Montana. Dress it up all you like by calling it "FCS" but it's still really I-AA. Second rate. Minor league.

Which makes what's going on with our basketball team so remarkable in my opinion. DeCuire has this team not only facing off against major college programs, but challenging them, playing more than credibly--even stealing a win.

Typically in the Big Sky, you'll see a few great players pass through, generally guards. One team here or there will recruit an exceptional big man. But seldom will you find a team with the depth and the balance to challenge teams from the country's major athletic programs. Yet that's what we have in this year's Griz.

With the emergence of Robbie Beasely, we have four outstanding young guards, any of whom could find roster spots at bigger schools. We've got reasonable height there and outstanding quickness, all combined with ability to shoot threes.

But the front line is even more remarkable. You just don't go 6'10, 6'9 and 6'8 across the front line in the Big Sky with kids as good as Steadman, Bannan and Owens. With three more quality bigs-- Carter-Hollinger, Henderson and Anderson--coming off the bench.


Not to mention a "mystery guest" waiting in the wings, Hunter Clarke. I've got a hunch he's going to be a special player.

Sure, I have a wish list for this team. I wish they had more bulk. Maybe a touch more veteran leadership. I sure as hell wish they'd committed fewer turnovers in the second half against Arizona.

But make no mistake. What DeCuire and his staff have built here is remarkable--not only for the Big Sky Conference, but for the history of the Montana basketball program as I know it.

Click to expand...

This response is mainly to keep my own expectations in check, my gut says this might be a special Griz team by the end of the year. However, Beasely has basically played 1 game so I wouldn't say he has emerged, he has flashed much the same way Whitney flashed against USC. Henderson can't be called quality back up as he has played like 3min and is not coming into the program from a impressive program or with impressive stats. I personally trust Anderson and think he is a solid second option at Center the way he ended last year, but IDK if his stats and average level of play support him being quality...maybe more in the capable and good upside category at this point. I like the potential and trajectory of our 4 gaurds but non of them have been outstanding, Im not asking for them to be Lillard, but guys like Senglin and Jerick Harding or Ogunie were outstanding, non of our guards are in that range right now. Im also not convinced any of them would find substantial minutes at a power 5 school...also not convinced they couldn't its just very small sample size with evidence in both directions, so jury is very much out on that claim I would say.
Overall, I can see where you are coming from though because I have seen multiple flashes from everyone playing minutes that they have the potential to be above average bigsky players or even substantially above average which if you are getting that from 7-8 guys that gives you a lot to be excited for!!!!
However, we are 1-5 against D-1 competition with some large stretches of very poor play (both physically and mentally) in those games and our 1 win is against a fairly poor UDub team that did a lot to help us win that game (*I dont think they are god awful like the Pitt team we beat but they are bad).

I think you are right this team has flashed the talent and depth to be considered a great Griz team THIS YEAR if they continue to grow and maintain the improvements they have made and utilize the depth and talent that we have seen flash from most out our guys this year. However consistency is also a skill I don't think there is enough evidence to say we have that yet. There a plenty of guys who can flash from game to game but they end up doing that their whole career and ultimately aren't very impactful players on the overall outcome of a season. So I expect us to go 17-1 the rest of the way, but my rational brain also says I shouldn't be surprised if we lose 5-6 more games this year.

...over the last few years coach decuire...
...slowly got the griz to the rim and above it...
...that's what was lacking to get to the next level...

... ...

Every team needs a Mac Anderson to fill a specific role. And I think he does understand what his role is. Mac is a team player and it shows. When one of the starters make an outstanding move or shot Mac is always the first off the bench to congratulate. He’s a fill in when Stedman needs a break or he’s an extra 5 fouls when we just need height to clog the middle. I only wish he could have had a redshirt year. Not that that would help his skill level, but who knows it might, but more importantly to add that extra dimension he can bring to the team.

Sport said:

Every team needs a Mac Anderson to fill a specific role. And I think he does understand what his role is. Mac is a team player and it shows. When one of the starters make an outstanding move or shot Mac is always the first off the bench to congratulate. He’s a fill in when Stedman needs a break or he’s an extra 5 fouls when we just need height to clog the middle. I only wish he could have had a redshirt year. Not that that would help his skill level, but who knows it might, but more importantly to add that extra dimension he can bring to the team.

Click to expand...

None of the players are losing eligibility this season so isn't this, in effect, his redshirt year?

tgreseth said:

Sport said:

Every team needs a Mac Anderson to fill a specific role. And I think he does understand what his role is. Mac is a team player and it shows. When one of the starters make an outstanding move or shot Mac is always the first off the bench to congratulate. He’s a fill in when Stedman needs a break or he’s an extra 5 fouls when we just need height to clog the middle. I only wish he could have had a redshirt year. Not that that would help his skill level, but who knows it might, but more importantly to add that extra dimension he can bring to the team.

Click to expand...

None of the players are losing eligibility this season so isn't this, in effect, his redshirt year?

Click to expand...

citay said:

I'm sure many of you on this board know the story as told by Aldo Forte, one of our all-time great football players, about the time our Griz went back to play Iowa in the late 30's. Forte and his teammates showed up the day before the game to see the stadium for the first time, only to find that Iowa was already there, practising. Forte was awed by their size and athletic ability, and mentioned this to an Iowa partisan nearby.

"Oh," said the guy. "That's our freshman team."

I think of this story often as a metaphor for the difference between big-time college athletics in this country, and athletics as it's played by the smaller schools and conferences, like Montana. Dress it up all you like by calling it "FCS" but it's still really I-AA. Second rate. Minor league.

Which makes what's going on with our basketball team so remarkable in my opinion. DeCuire has this team not only facing off against major college programs, but challenging them, playing more than credibly--even stealing a win.

Typically in the Big Sky, you'll see a few great players pass through, generally guards. One team here or there will recruit an exceptional big man. But seldom will you find a team with the depth and the balance to challenge teams from the country's major athletic programs. Yet that's what we have in this year's Griz.

With the emergence of Robbie Beasely, we have four outstanding young guards, any of whom could find roster spots at bigger schools. We've got reasonable height there and outstanding quickness, all combined with ability to shoot threes.

But the front line is even more remarkable. You just don't go 6'10, 6'9 and 6'8 across the front line in the Big Sky with kids as good as Steadman, Bannan and Owens. With three more quality bigs-- Carter-Hollinger, Henderson and Anderson--coming off the bench.

Not to mention a "mystery guest" waiting in the wings, Hunter Clarke. I've got a hunch he's going to be a special player.

Sure, I have a wish list for this team. I wish they had more bulk. Maybe a touch more veteran leadership. I sure as hell wish they'd committed fewer turnovers in the second half against Arizona.

But make no mistake. What DeCuire and his staff have built here is remarkable--not only for the Big Sky Conference, but for the history of the Montana basketball program as I know it.

Click to expand...

"Make no mistake"...Citay will post at least 25 "What Decuire is doing is utterly remarkable" posts a season as long as Decuire is here!!

The Griz will continue to battle for Big Sky titles as they have most years over the past 40+, play some competitive games vs. larger schools (and usually lose), and may make the NCAA's a few times (and usually lose big) .

I love the team, love the coach and think Griz have some very good players......but I feel things just aren't that much different (or better) now that what I've been following since the late 1970s.

The differences I've observed is that DeCuire seems to recruit more athletic players and seems to consistently be able to build and meld a contender each year, even when losing a lot of good players, almost starting over, and blending a lot of new and young players. A number of seasons have seemed to start quite slow, then start building, and then become a contender. It seemed to me that more of the great Griz teams of the past were built around a core group of players who were much of the heart of the team for several years. Just my impression.

Mousegriz said:

citay said:

I'm sure many of you on this board know the story as told by Aldo Forte, one of our all-time great football players, about the time our Griz went back to play Iowa in the late 30's. Forte and his teammates showed up the day before the game to see the stadium for the first time, only to find that Iowa was already there, practising. Forte was awed by their size and athletic ability, and mentioned this to an Iowa partisan nearby.

"Oh," said the guy. "That's our freshman team."

I think of this story often as a metaphor for the difference between big-time college athletics in this country, and athletics as it's played by the smaller schools and conferences, like Montana. Dress it up all you like by calling it "FCS" but it's still really I-AA. Second rate. Minor league.

Which makes what's going on with our basketball team so remarkable in my opinion. DeCuire has this team not only facing off against major college programs, but challenging them, playing more than credibly--even stealing a win.

Typically in the Big Sky, you'll see a few great players pass through, generally guards. One team here or there will recruit an exceptional big man. But seldom will you find a team with the depth and the balance to challenge teams from the country's major athletic programs. Yet that's what we have in this year's Griz.

With the emergence of Robbie Beasely, we have four outstanding young guards, any of whom could find roster spots at bigger schools. We've got reasonable height there and outstanding quickness, all combined with ability to shoot threes.

But the front line is even more remarkable. You just don't go 6'10, 6'9 and 6'8 across the front line in the Big Sky with kids as good as Steadman, Bannan and Owens. With three more quality bigs-- Carter-Hollinger, Henderson and Anderson--coming off the bench.

Not to mention a "mystery guest" waiting in the wings, Hunter Clarke. I've got a hunch he's going to be a special player.

Sure, I have a wish list for this team. I wish they had more bulk. Maybe a touch more veteran leadership. I sure as hell wish they'd committed fewer turnovers in the second half against Arizona.

But make no mistake. What DeCuire and his staff have built here is remarkable--not only for the Big Sky Conference, but for the history of the Montana basketball program as I know it.

Click to expand...

"Make no mistake"...Citay will post at least 25 "What Decuire is doing is utterly remarkable" posts a season as long as Decuire is here!!

The Griz will continue to battle for Big Sky titles as they have most years over the past 40+, play some competitive games vs. larger schools (and usually lose), and may make the NCAA's a few times (and usually lose big) .

I love the team, love the coach and think Griz have some very good players......but I feel things just aren't that much different (or better) now that what I've been following since the late 1970s.

Click to expand...

I believe Griz are overall better than many of the teams in the past, both athletically and talent wise. Problem is that I see is that Griz have a hard time preparing for the NCAA tournament due to the Big Sky Conference being such a mediocre conference. It is great the Griz have been playing really good competition in non-conference, but how much do they remember playing that competition well enough after they go 2 months playing mediocre competition and then have to play against a top 3 seed that has played against way better competition more recently.

No matter what the Griz do, it will always be a huge mountain to climb if they want to be successful in the NCAA tournament.

Mousegriz said:

citay said:

I'm sure many of you on this board know the story as told by Aldo Forte, one of our all-time great football players, about the time our Griz went back to play Iowa in the late 30's. Forte and his teammates showed up the day before the game to see the stadium for the first time, only to find that Iowa was already there, practising. Forte was awed by their size and athletic ability, and mentioned this to an Iowa partisan nearby.

"Oh," said the guy. "That's our freshman team."

I think of this story often as a metaphor for the difference between big-time college athletics in this country, and athletics as it's played by the smaller schools and conferences, like Montana. Dress it up all you like by calling it "FCS" but it's still really I-AA. Second rate. Minor league.

Which makes what's going on with our basketball team so remarkable in my opinion. DeCuire has this team not only facing off against major college programs, but challenging them, playing more than credibly--even stealing a win.

Typically in the Big Sky, you'll see a few great players pass through, generally guards. One team here or there will recruit an exceptional big man. But seldom will you find a team with the depth and the balance to challenge teams from the country's major athletic programs. Yet that's what we have in this year's Griz.

With the emergence of Robbie Beasely, we have four outstanding young guards, any of whom could find roster spots at bigger schools. We've got reasonable height there and outstanding quickness, all combined with ability to shoot threes.

But the front line is even more remarkable. You just don't go 6'10, 6'9 and 6'8 across the front line in the Big Sky with kids as good as Steadman, Bannan and Owens. With three more quality bigs-- Carter-Hollinger, Henderson and Anderson--coming off the bench.

Not to mention a "mystery guest" waiting in the wings, Hunter Clarke. I've got a hunch he's going to be a special player.

Sure, I have a wish list for this team. I wish they had more bulk. Maybe a touch more veteran leadership. I sure as hell wish they'd committed fewer turnovers in the second half against Arizona.

But make no mistake. What DeCuire and his staff have built here is remarkable--not only for the Big Sky Conference, but for the history of the Montana basketball program as I know it.

Click to expand...

"Make no mistake"...Citay will post at least 25 "What Decuire is doing is utterly remarkable" posts a season as long as Decuire is here!!

The Griz will continue to battle for Big Sky titles as they have most years over the past 40+, play some competitive games vs. larger schools (and usually lose), and may make the NCAA's a few times (and usually lose big) .

I love the team, love the coach and think Griz have some very good players......but I feel things just aren't that much different (or better) now that what I've been following since the late 1970s.

Click to expand...

You’re right. The Kennedy/Holst years were very similar. :roll: :roll:

TrueGriz said:

Mousegriz said:

"Make no mistake"...Citay will post at least 25 "What Decuire is doing is utterly remarkable" posts a season as long as Decuire is here!!

The Griz will continue to battle for Big Sky titles as they have most years over the past 40+, play some competitive games vs. larger schools (and usually lose), and may make the NCAA's a few times (and usually lose big) .

I love the team, love the coach and think Griz have some very good players......but I feel things just aren't that much different (or better) now that what I've been following since the late 1970s.

Click to expand...

I believe Griz are overall better than many of the teams in the past, both athletically and talent wise. Problem is that I see is that Griz have a hard time preparing for the NCAA tournament due to the Big Sky Conference being such a mediocre conference. It is great the Griz have been playing really good competition in non-conference, but how much do they remember playing that competition well enough after they go 2 months playing mediocre competition and then have to play against a top 3 seed that has played against way better competition more recently.

No matter what the Griz do, it will always be a huge mountain to climb if they want to be successful in the NCAA tournament.

Click to expand...

All fair points from many posters illustrating hurdles for the program. A lot of those things won't be changing, conference, geographic and cultural factors that limit our desirability for some potential recruits. i hope for incremental improvement, we won't be getting top 100 national recruits that remake a program over night.

I'm optimistic because of both the talent and depth of it. It looks like all of the newest couple year guys (save Clarke at this point) will be long term positives. How often has that happened?

I look at the front court potential and it is higher than ever. Owens could be one of the best 3/4 guys ever here if he keeps getting better. Bannan has big upside as well. We just need a couple more to compete with the bigger dogs. We have long had strong backcourts, I'll look to see that in the 3/4/5 as well.

The next step I'd hope to see is when the team goes into games with the mid level Power 5 teams ala Georgia expecting to win, not just compete. Can the staff get them there, who knows? If they do I'll be a happy camper and then dream of bigger things. I keep seeing improvement year by year, I'm good with that for now.

AZGrizFan said:

Mousegriz said:

"Make no mistake"...Citay will post at least 25 "What Decuire is doing is utterly remarkable" posts a season as long as Decuire is here!!

The Griz will continue to battle for Big Sky titles as they have most years over the past 40+, play some competitive games vs. larger schools (and usually lose), and may make the NCAA's a few times (and usually lose big) .

I love the team, love the coach and think Griz have some very good players......but I feel things just aren't that much different (or better) now that what I've been following since the late 1970s.

Click to expand...

You’re right. The Kennedy/Holst years were very similar. :roll: :roll:

Click to expand...

"Most" years over past 40+. Holst and Kennedy coached a combined 6 years. 5 losing records in the past 40 years 4 of them with Holst or Kennedy (1 with Tinkle). Read the post!

Mousegriz said:

AZGrizFan said:

You’re right. The Kennedy/Holst years were very similar. :roll: :roll:

Click to expand...

"Most" years over past 40+. Holst and Kennedy coached a combined 6 years. 5 losing records in the past 40 years 4 of them with Holst or Kennedy (1 with Tinkle). Read the post!

Click to expand...

I read the post. I’ve been following since the MRR days, and there isn’t a coach since Heathcote I’d trade DeCuire for. 3 1sts and a 2nd in 5 years at the helm. Outside of Tinkle’s final four years, you know how far you have to go back to find a 1st place Griz team? 1994. TWENTY SIX YEARS.

What do you feel it’s missing to “make it better”?

Hoops watcher said:

TrueGriz said:

I believe Griz are overall better than many of the teams in the past, both athletically and talent wise. Problem is that I see is that Griz have a hard time preparing for the NCAA tournament due to the Big Sky Conference being such a mediocre conference. It is great the Griz have been playing really good competition in non-conference, but how much do they remember playing that competition well enough after they go 2 months playing mediocre competition and then have to play against a top 3 seed that has played against way better competition more recently.

No matter what the Griz do, it will always be a huge mountain to climb if they want to be successful in the NCAA tournament.

Click to expand...

All fair points from many posters illustrating hurdles for the program. A lot of those things won't be changing, conference, geographic and cultural factors that limit our desirability for some potential recruits. i hope for incremental improvement, we won't be getting top 100 national recruits that remake a program over night.

I'm optimistic because of both the talent and depth of it. It looks like all of the newest couple year guys (save Clarke at this point) will be long term positives. How often has that happened?

I look at the front court potential and it is higher than ever. Owens could be one of the best 3/4 guys ever here if he keeps getting better. Bannan has big upside as well. We just need a couple more to compete with the bigger dogs. We have long had strong backcourts, I'll look to see that in the 3/4/5 as well.

The next step I'd hope to see is when the team goes into games with the mid level Power 5 teams ala Georgia expecting to win, not just compete. Can the staff get them there, who knows? If they do I'll be a happy camper and then dream of bigger things. I keep seeing improvement year by year, I'm good with that for now.

Click to expand...

Points of reference:

1. Per KenPom Montana has played the 12th toughest non-con and the 27th toughest schedule overall amongst D-1 schools in the country (excluding games against NonD-1 schools).

2. Georgia is 7-0 with a quality win over Cincinnati.

3. USC has also proven to be more formidable than viewed before the season started.

4. Arizona just beat a very good Colorado team by a greater margin than they beat Montana.

5. SUU is a very good Big Sky team.

What are the expectations? Best case scenario Montana is one the two best BSC teams and gets to a NCAA or NIT tournament. To expect sweet 16 is not realistic.

What are realistic expectations?

GrizBall said:

Hoops watcher said:

All fair points from many posters illustrating hurdles for the program. A lot of those things won't be changing, conference, geographic and cultural factors that limit our desirability for some potential recruits. i hope for incremental improvement, we won't be getting top 100 national recruits that remake a program over night.

I'm optimistic because of both the talent and depth of it. It looks like all of the newest couple year guys (save Clarke at this point) will be long term positives. How often has that happened?

I look at the front court potential and it is higher than ever. Owens could be one of the best 3/4 guys ever here if he keeps getting better. Bannan has big upside as well. We just need a couple more to compete with the bigger dogs. We have long had strong backcourts, I'll look to see that in the 3/4/5 as well.

The next step I'd hope to see is when the team goes into games with the mid level Power 5 teams ala Georgia expecting to win, not just compete. Can the staff get them there, who knows? If they do I'll be a happy camper and then dream of bigger things. I keep seeing improvement year by year, I'm good with that for now.

Click to expand...

Points of reference:

1. Per KenPom Montana has played the 12th toughest non-con and the 27th toughest schedule overall amongst D-1 schools in the country (excluding games against NonD-1 schools).

2. Georgia is 7-0 with a quality win over Cincinnati.

3. USC has also proven to be more formidable than viewed before the season started.

4. Arizona just beat a very good Colorado team by a greater margin than they beat Montana.

5. SUU is a very good Big Sky team.

What are the expectations? Best case scenario Montana is one the two best BSC teams and gets to a NCAA or NIT tournament. To expect sweet 16 is not realistic.

What are realistic expectations?

Click to expand...

I think your assessment and expectations for this year are spot on and almost exactly like mine. A trip to the dance with a low seed and a bad matchup best case. The next steps I envision is this young group with another year or two of experience and a couple more solid bigs. Then I could see doing some pre season damage against a few Power 5s, a great conference slate and an 11 or 12 seed with a realistic chance at winning a first round game. Maybe a second round opponent like BC back when where you at least had a chance. This would be best case where development, recruiting and lack of major injuries all cooperate. Probable? Maybe, maybe not. Possible? If things go well, sure.