• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

R.I.P. Bill Russell

Oakland native, USF alum, class act.

I think we forget today how much racism the black athletes of his era endured. Remember the incessant f-bombs the Boston crowd showered on Draymond Green during this year’s playoffs? Imagine how it was there 70 years ago for Russell—or in the other cities he played in.

My instinct would have been to fight back. They couldn’t—except on the field or on the court. And did Russell ever.
 
citay said:
Oakland native, USF alum, class act.

I think we forget today how much racism the black athletes of his era endured. Remember the incessant f-bombs the Boston crowd showered on Draymond Green during this year’s playoffs? Imagine how it was there 70 years ago for Russell—or in the other cities he played in.

My instinct would have been to fight back. They couldn’t—except on the field or on the court. And did Russell ever.

Please enlighten me on why Boston f-bomb chants toward Draymond have anything in common with what Bill Russell went through?
 
Seems pretty obvious, but…

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/08/01/bill-russell-celtics-racial-barriers-civil-rights
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Seems pretty obvious, but…

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/08/01/bill-russell-celtics-racial-barriers-civil-rights

I know Bill Russells story very well(he is a pioneer for civil rights), i simply asked what the correlation was between him and Draymond. I have seen Draymond play a couple times in person at 2 different venues (neither were in Boston) and can tell you he is relentlessly heckled wherever he goes. His style is nothing like Bill Russells, Russell kept his emotions to himself and was a complete class act. Draymond (who i love watching), wears his emotions on his sleeve and feeds off of opposing fans.

Even Draymond said the Boston fans did not bother him. When the term "racism" is used nonsensically it hurts the cause that we are trying to fight for. I was asking Citay to elaborate on the comparison with some facts to back the accusation
 
wyomingriz said:
AllWeatherFan said:
Seems pretty obvious, but…

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/08/01/bill-russell-celtics-racial-barriers-civil-rights

I know Bill Russells story very well(he is a pioneer for civil rights), i simply asked what the correlation was between him and Draymond. I have seen Draymond play a couple times in person at 2 different venues (neither were in Boston) and can tell you he is relentlessly heckled wherever he goes. His style is nothing like Bill Russells, Russell kept his emotions to himself and was a complete class act. Draymond (who i love watching), wears his emotions on his sleeve and feeds off of opposing fans.

Even Draymond said the Boston fans did not bother him. When the term "racism" is used nonsensically it hurts the cause that we are trying to fight for. I was asking Citay to elaborate on the comparison with some facts to back the accusation

Gotcha, wyo. I will let citay respond.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
wyomingriz said:
I know Bill Russells story very well(he is a pioneer for civil rights), i simply asked what the correlation was between him and Draymond. I have seen Draymond play a couple times in person at 2 different venues (neither were in Boston) and can tell you he is relentlessly heckled wherever he goes. His style is nothing like Bill Russells, Russell kept his emotions to himself and was a complete class act. Draymond (who i love watching), wears his emotions on his sleeve and feeds off of opposing fans.

Even Draymond said the Boston fans did not bother him. When the term "racism" is used nonsensically it hurts the cause that we are trying to fight for. I was asking Citay to elaborate on the comparison with some facts to back the accusation

Gotcha, wyo. I will let citay respond.

Let me spare you the dozens and dozens of links I could post here, or the many stories I could recite of black athletes in all sports, attesting to Boston as the most racists sports town in America.

So it is my contention that such legendary racism--like child abuse, often--is passed down from generation to generation; that the people yelling in unison, "FUCK DRAYMOND GREEN!!!" are the descendants and the residue of the most racist sports town in America. And while I understand that Draymond Green can be an insufferable jerk, even to Warriors fans, he's not the first jerk ever to play in the NBA. Would the Boston crowd hurl such abuse in unison at a white player? Would you? Would the fans at Dahlberg?

Maybe I'm naive; maybe they would and have. If so, I'm sure I'll hear about it on this board.

But it could be that YOU'RE the one who's naive. Who doesn't see the correlation between skin color and what at the TD Garden was a display of at the very least, incredibly vulgar behavior. Not from a few racist jerks, as are on display at arenas throughout the country, not just Boston. But from an entire mob.

But like Bill Russell, Draymond shut them up with his play. Even Jeff Van Guindy, during the historic 21-0 run to clinch the title, said, "Draymond Green is making plays all over the court."
 
citay said:
AllWeatherFan said:
Gotcha, wyo. I will let citay respond.

Let me spare you the dozens and dozens of links I could post here, or the many stories I could recite of black athletes in all sports, attesting to Boston as the most racists sports town in America.

So it is my contention that such legendary racism--like child abuse, often--is passed down from generation to generation; that the people yelling in unison, "[#]f### DRAYMOND GREEN!!!" are the descendants and the residue of the most racist sports town in America. And while I understand that Draymond Green can be an insufferable jerk, even to Warriors fans, he's not the first jerk ever to play in the NBA. Would the Boston crowd hurl such abuse in unison at a white player? Would you? Would the fans at Dahlberg?

Maybe I'm naive; maybe they would and have. If so, I'm sure I'll hear about it on this board.

But it could be that YOU'RE the one who's naive. Who doesn't see the correlation between skin color and what at the TD Garden was a display of at the very least, incredibly vulgar behavior. Not from a few racist jerks, as are on display at arenas throughout the country, not just Boston. But from an entire mob.

But like Bill Russell, Draymond shut them up with his play. Even Jeff Van Guindy, during the historic 21-0 run to clinch the title, said, "Draymond Green is making plays all over the court."

Pointing your finger at me is disappointing but not surprising. You have no idea who i am, my background, my race, or my beliefs. All i asked was for facts backing your accusations, instead you gave generalizations of a fan base. I have been to Fenway (yes i am a Red Sox fan)and can tell you this, when Johnny Damon(signs read “Judas Damon)came to bat there was nothing but hatred from fans. Also saw that years ago with Mattingly in Fenway, utter hatred.
Understand, i am not sticking up for dumbass fans but l et me ask you this, is it racist for a fan to hate the star black player on a pro team? If that is not okay, let me ask you this, is it okay to only hate white players on pro teams?
And no, i am a quiet fan, i do more yelling at the TV than in person at games :lol: Call me naive as you wish, i know racism is rampant, but refuse to use that word unless there is a valid reason. Unfortunately, in my opinion, because i is so overused it no longer carries the clout that it used to and should.
Also, use of the “F” word is so common now i just can’t see it as a racial issue, maybe you can educate me.
 
wyomingriz said:
citay said:
Let me spare you the dozens and dozens of links I could post here, or the many stories I could recite of black athletes in all sports, attesting to Boston as the most racists sports town in America.

So it is my contention that such legendary racism--like child abuse, often--is passed down from generation to generation; that the people yelling in unison, "[#]f### DRAYMOND GREEN!!!" are the descendants and the residue of the most racist sports town in America. And while I understand that Draymond Green can be an insufferable jerk, even to Warriors fans, he's not the first jerk ever to play in the NBA. Would the Boston crowd hurl such abuse in unison at a white player? Would you? Would the fans at Dahlberg?

Maybe I'm naive; maybe they would and have. If so, I'm sure I'll hear about it on this board.

But it could be that YOU'RE the one who's naive. Who doesn't see the correlation between skin color and what at the TD Garden was a display of at the very least, incredibly vulgar behavior. Not from a few racist jerks, as are on display at arenas throughout the country, not just Boston. But from an entire mob.

But like Bill Russell, Draymond shut them up with his play. Even Jeff Van Guindy, during the historic 21-0 run to clinch the title, said, "Draymond Green is making plays all over the court."

Pointing your finger at me is disappointing but not surprising. You have no idea who i am, my background, my race, or my beliefs. All i asked was for facts backing your accusations, instead you gave generalizations of a fan base. I have been to Fenway (yes i am a Red Sox fan)and can tell you this, when Johnny Damon(signs read “Judas Damon)came to bat there was nothing but hatred from fans. Also saw that years ago with Mattingly in Fenway, utter hatred.
Understand, i am not sticking up for dumbass fans but l et me ask you this, is it racist for a fan to hate the star black player on a pro team? If that is not okay, let me ask you this, is it okay to only hate white players on pro teams?
And no, i am a quiet fan, i do more yelling at the TV than in person at games :lol: Call me naive as you wish, i know racism is rampant, but refuse to use that word unless there is a valid reason. Unfortunately, in my opinion, because i is so overused it no longer carries the clout that it used to and should.
Also, use of the “F” word is so common now i just can’t see it as a racial issue, maybe you can educate me.
 
citay said:
wyomingriz said:
Pointing your finger at me is disappointing but not surprising. You have no idea who i am, my background, my race, or my beliefs. All i asked was for facts backing your accusations, instead you gave generalizations of a fan base. I have been to Fenway (yes i am a Red Sox fan)and can tell you this, when Johnny Damon(signs read “Judas Damon)came to bat there was nothing but hatred from fans. Also saw that years ago with Mattingly in Fenway, utter hatred.
Understand, i am not sticking up for dumbass fans but l et me ask you this, is it racist for a fan to hate the star black player on a pro team? If that is not okay, let me ask you this, is it okay to only hate white players on pro teams?
And no, i am a quiet fan, i do more yelling at the TV than in person at games :lol: Call me naive as you wish, i know racism is rampant, but refuse to use that word unless there is a valid reason. Unfortunately, in my opinion, because i is so overused it no longer carries the clout that it used to and should.
Also, use of the “F” word is so common now i just can’t see it as a racial issue, maybe you can educate me.
Hatred of anybody--white or black--is bad.
Hatred leads to violence.
Hatred eats you up.
And while the F-bomb may be common, it almost always connotes hatred.
Even when it is intended as humor, or to "educate" somebody, it is a nasty and hurtful, as in,
"F---- you, Wyoming Griz!"
 
citay said:
citay said:
Hatred of anybody--white or black--is bad.
Hatred leads to violence.
Hatred eats you up.
And while the F-bomb may be common, it almost always connotes hatred.
Even when it is intended as humor, or to "educate" somebody, it is a nasty and hurtful, as in,
"F---- you, Wyoming Griz!"

okay okay okay! Holy crap! Sorry i used the word hate! How about rabid fans that dislike a player. You like to take words and bend them into your narrative, very difficult to have a meaningful conversation with you. You seem to "HATE" anyone that disagrees with you
 
I've read a lot of positive things in the past week about Russell, and I know he took a lot of crap, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge that he was quite the A-hole right back. Jackie Robinson took as much crap, and probably much more, but I never heard one story about Jackie whining about it. Russell got paid 24K as a rookie (1956'), only 1K less than all-star Cousy and was the first 100K b-baller/yr ever, so he wasn't slighted financially. Jackie Robinson's rookie pay was only 5k in 1947, but he never whined about it. Russell refused to sign autographs for white kids. Fact! He admitted it, but we should admire him? To quote him:"You owe the public the same it owes you, nothing! I refuse to smile and be nice to the kiddies." He WAS a pioneer, and he dealt with a lot of crap, but he was also a jerk. There, I said it.
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Did you google “dirt on Bill Russell?”

I don't think you have to do that to know that Russell was a prickly sort who could indeed be haughty and remote, to say the least. Our heroes do have flaws.

Between Jackie Robinson and Bill Russell, I don't think there's any doubt which man is more revered.
 
Zirg said:
I've read a lot of positive things in the past week about Russell, and I know he took a lot of crap, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge that he was quite the A-hole right back. Jackie Robinson took as much crap, and probably much more, but I never heard one story about Jackie whining about it. Russell got paid 24K as a rookie (1956'), only 1K less than all-star Cousy and was the first 100K b-baller/yr ever, so he wasn't slighted financially. Jackie Robinson's rookie pay was only 5k in 1947, but he never whined about it. Russell refused to sign autographs for white kids. Fact! He admitted it, but we should admire him? To quote him:"You owe the public the same it owes you, nothing! I refuse to smile and be nice to the kiddies." He WAS a pioneer, and he dealt with a lot of crap, but he was also a jerk. There, I said it.

One thing to point out here that I'm sure Russell and all players of his era were and still are bitter about: The timing of their births!
Just for the hell of it, I plugged Russell's 1956 salary into a CPI Inflation calculator. In today's dollars, Russell made $265,353 a year.
Okay, not a bad salary--but not the generational wealth that today's players command.
The big difference of course is the incredible TV contracts that didn't exist during Russell's playing days.
But remember too, there was no free agency in Russell's day. That didn't begin in the NBA until 1976, thanks to the "reserve" clause, which stands today as further testimony to the many godawful laws that the Supreme Court has sanctified throughout history. And which meant that a player was bound to one team forever and ever, unless the club gave him his "unconditional release." The Celtics weren't about to do that with Russell, but imagine the salary he would have commanded had there been free agency his day, TV contracts or not.
 
Back
Top