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Darkest Just Before Dawn?

C

citygriz

Well-known member
Lotta pessimism on both basketball fronts here.

On the Men's side, much criticism directed at DeCuire, some of it by me. (Did you watch how Princeton handled Missouri's press?) Our arch-rivals have now won two straight Big Sky championships and should be loaded again next year. Where the powers in the Big Sky used to be Montana and Weber State, they clearly now are Montana State and Eastern Washington.

On the Women's side, the head coaching job here came down to Holsinger and Mark Campbell, now at Sac State. Holsinger has had two straight one-and-dones at the Big Sky tournament while Campbell won it at Sac State. Did we pick the wrong guy?

But I remain optimistic on both sides of the ledger.

For the Men, we return most of our key players, including Aanen Moody, while adding a potential star in Money Williams. We lose two players to the portal, one who was okay but not great, the other not a factor at all, but could replace one or both with a player that becomes a key contributor, as Moody was this year. The redshirt freshmen will add height and athleticism, while Jaxon Nap should be a bigger contributor next year. I personally am eager to see what Rhett Reynolds brings to the team with a redshirt year under his belt.

On the Women's side, as had been pointed out here by others, Holsinger seems to be building for the future, not an immediate turnaround, and I'm still on board with that. Stump and Konig were outstanding this year, and next year's recruits are top-drawer. (I'm especially eager to see Adria Lincoln, ranked the number three player in the state of Washington.) Meanwhile, Holsinger seems to have cleansed the dissention that clearly existed within the program.

Thoughts and prayers?
 
I think your assessment is pretty close to accurate. On the mens side I think one area of concern is a point guard with some height, 6’4” to 6’6” that can see over the other guards. I think Whitney would be great coming off the bench to show a different look with his ability to get to the rim. I think we’re still short a wing that can shoot from outside but more importantly get some offensive rebounds. That is probably unlikely since that skill level will be going to the PAC 12 or MW or WCC. If both Whitney and Bannon would shoot 1,000 3’s a day during the off-season we could be dangerous next year.
I liked Nap’s play this year although his time diminished as the year went on. I liked his passing ability. Don’t know if he has played the 2 but he has the size. I also like the way Oke came on at the end of the season. He’s beginning to become comfortable with the speed of the game.
 
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
BigSkyBreakdown said:
Campbell was offered the job before Holsinger. He turned it down for a variety of reasons.
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Interesting. Not sure I’d heard that.
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Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
 
Sport said:
I think your assessment is pretty close to accurate. On the mens side I think one area of concern is a point guard with some height, 6’4” to 6’6” that can see over the other guards. I think Whitney would be great coming off the bench to show a different look with his ability to get to the rim. I think we’re still short a wing that can shoot from outside but more importantly get some offensive rebounds. That is probably unlikely since that skill level will be going to the PAC 12 or MW or WCC. If both Whitney and Bannon would shoot 1,000 3’s a day during the off-season we could be dangerous next year.
I liked Nap’s play this year although his time diminished as the year went on. I liked his passing ability. Don’t know if he has played the 2 but he has the size. I also like the way Oke came on at the end of the season. He’s beginning to become comfortable with the speed of the game.
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We better hope, those 1,000 shots per day are with proper mechanics. Bannan needs to start from the waist up. Whitney, needs to just narrow his stance and increase his arm angle. Whitney's mechanics can improve quickly. Bannan's mechanics are a little more involved.
 
maroonandsilver said:
MissoulaMarinerFan said:
Interesting. Not sure I’d heard that.
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Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
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What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
 
mthoopsfan said:
maroonandsilver said:
Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
Click to expand...

What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
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Those who have observed the Mom at Griz games say she is a really into the game (I'm on the opposite side of the court, so I have not seen her). I will just say that Brian was supporting his Mom.
 
mthoopsfan said:
maroonandsilver said:
Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
Click to expand...

What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
Click to expand...

I say thank your for standing up for the rights of the oppressed in American. I’m sure you agree with this,didn’t you just post something about the corruption in refs in Montana bb?
 
Both Whitney and Bannon have poor mechanics and it’s going to take a lot of coaching up to get them effective from the outside. Whitney needs to get a higher release on the ball. His shoot is way to flat. As for Bannon it’s back to basics. He shoots from the hip and a lot of the energy is lost on the way up. He needs to release the ball at or above the shoulder line. If you’ll notice most of his outside shots hit the front of the rim. I’m not sure anyone on the coaching staff has the ability to teach that.
 
Sport said:
Both Whitney and Bannon have poor mechanics and it’s going to take a lot of coaching up to get them effective from the outside. Whitney needs to get a higher release on the ball. His shoot is way to flat. As for Bannon it’s back to basics. He shoots from the hip and a lot of the energy is lost on the way up. He needs to release the ball at or above the shoulder line. If you’ll notice most of his outside shots hit the front of the rim. I’m not sure anyone on the coaching staff has the ability to teach that.
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Sometimes you can mess them up more than help them. I've seen it go both ways. It's not as if the coaches haven't tried to correct the shooting form of these players. They probably just found that it didn't help them shoot a higher percentage. Some of these shooting issues have been going on since these guys were 10 years old. It isn't like waving a wand over them and everything is all better.
 
mthoopsfan said:
maroonandsilver said:
Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
Click to expand...

What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
Click to expand...

You weren’t asking me, but that is not a good look imo.
 
Grizbeer said:
mthoopsfan said:
What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
Click to expand...

I say thank your for standing up for the rights of the oppressed in American. I’m sure you agree with this,didn’t you just post something about the corruption in refs in Montana bb?
Click to expand...

No, I posted nothing about ref corruption in MT basketball. I posted a Missoulian article on Native American basketball and reffing. I made no comment. I post article on Native Americans and basketball from time to time. I also made no comment on the Holsinger thing. I asked a question. Don't be an asshole.
 
Oldrunner I totally get your concerns regarding trying to change the shooting style/motion of Whitney and Bannon. I realize Bannon’s number don’t look all that bad but when you look at attempts vs makes and number of games played vs total shots attempted it becomes evident that he is not a threat from deep. Otherwise the vast majority of his shots come from within 5’ of the basket. The same can be said for Whitney which is an anomaly for a 6’ guard. I feel it is critical that one or both of them need to become at least 35/40% proficient in order for the Griz to become contenders for a conference title. With only Moody as the go to guy from three defenses will be packing the middle. Thomas is very streaker as was evidenced by late in the ceiling performance.
 
Bannan is a very weird case in that his form looked nothing like that his freshman year. I thought it was pretty smooth. He changed his shot to that form, which I can’t imagine a college coach or the level of trainer Bannan would have teaching him that. If someone on the staff was responsible I would immediately question his basketball knowledge (“No, not like that! it’s too high! start closer to the hip!”).

I think his season percentage falls under the stats can be deceiving category. Against D-1 teams overall he shot 40%. But he shot 26% in conference and if you take away the 3 game heater where he was 8-9 against North Dakota, Prairie View and Gonzaga, his overall percentage is 28%.

While Oldrunner’s makes a good point, Bannan’s made 3’s seem to be more a function of luck than anything and I feel he has absolutely nothing to lose by changing his shot. If you are under 30%, you probably shouldn’t be taking 3’s anyway.
 
I know nothing of the "Money" kid, but it's pretty clear there wasn't a wing on this team who could consistently create his own shot. But that was pretty evident among the actual contenders. Not sure it wouldn't be even more helpful if there weren't a couple of guys on next year's roster like this.
 
Re: Shooting.

Big's shooting from the perimeter is a bit of a mess regarding technique. Used to be industry wide philosophy that bigs who released their shot above their head, the ball landed too hard on the rim to be effective. That has been debunked in recent years, but the issue of consistent release and lift cause bigs issues because of the angle it has approaching the rim.

I've read and listened to some college guys and one of the philosophies is to take the a lot of the knee flex and jump and eliminate a lot of the upward arm movement. Almost make it a free-throw and players seem to get more consistent release.

By moving the ball down with Bannan, it created that hitch, to help him on jump shots to get a softer bounce on the rim. The adjustment had the desired impact, but he's much more inconsistent from 3 because of it. He just doesn't get the same on line release that he did before the adjustment.
 
Re: Holsinger/Campbell:

I think if you look at the long term approach of Holsinger and what had to be done in Missoula to approach it, you'd have to look at this being a 3-4 year retool/rebuild. The roster no matter how you parse it wasn't competitive, but you are starting to see the overall quality of the roster increase and doing with mostly HS kids. They clearly need experienced help at PG, and maybe some added post depth, and it is unknown if they'll see any girls leave the program. I'd expect with the roster as currently aligned, should be fairly formidable next year.

Campbell invested heavily in transfers, to retool the program, and that helped them move upwards quickly. Dean, Natabou, Randhawa, and Amusan were all transfers (JC or 4 year schools). Most of them are seniors and it'll be interesting to see if they can keep that level talent consistently in a place that has struggled to do that after that group departs.

It was clear that while Campbell may have been interested in Montana, it takes two people to tango, and it it just didn't work out. He's a talent, and I don't know that he's gonna be at Sac for long if he continues to produce as he has.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
Re: Holsinger/Campbell:

I think if you look at the long term approach of Holsinger and what had to be done in Missoula to approach it, you'd have to look at this being a 3-4 year retool/rebuild. The roster no matter how you parse it wasn't competitive, but you are starting to see the overall quality of the roster increase and doing with mostly HS kids. They clearly need experienced help at PG, and maybe some added post depth, and it is unknown if they'll see any girls leave the program. I'd expect with the roster as currently aligned, should be fairly formidable next year.

Campbell invested heavily in transfers, to retool the program, and that helped them move upwards quickly. Dean, Natabou, Randhawa, and Amusan were all transfers (JC or 4 year schools). Most of them are seniors and it'll be interesting to see if they can keep that level talent consistently in a place that has struggled to do that after that group departs.

It was clear that while Campbell may have been interested in Montana, it takes two people to tango, and it it just didn't work out. He's a talent, and I don't know that he's gonna be at Sac for long if he continues to produce as he has.
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We may have solved the point guard position with our new recruit, Macy Donarski. She orginally committed to Saint Louis University before they fired their coach and she switched her commitment to us. Holsinger describes her as a "special point guard." We'll see.
 
mthoopsfan said:
maroonandsilver said:
Campbell's wife wouldn't live in Missoula, so F***k her and her hubby! Brian is building slowly and to the future. Those of us who are Hoop Club members appreciate his vision and energy. His meetings with us have been nothing but positive.
Click to expand...

What’s your view of him and his mom being tossed out of his daughter’s game?
Click to expand...

Your schadenfreude is beyond transparent.

The only time you chime in about the Lady Griz is when there has been some sort of misstep.

Momberg couldn't hack it at this level and didn't deserve to be here. Get over it already :roll:
 
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