DeCuire's Offensive Philosophy

[PlayerRep]

Speaking of Gonzaga and Baylor, I've seen a few versions of this on the internet: Zag fans: Our offense is very prolific. Baylor fans: We lift with the football team.

I liked that.

 

[astutegriz]

Speaking of Gonzaga and Baylor, I've seen a few versions of this on the internet: Zag fans: Our offense is very prolific. Baylor fans: We lift with the football team.

I liked that.

Baylor's physicality showed in the finals!

 

[citygriz]

Yo Astute: Where in the world are you getting your statistics on the three-point shots? The Cyber Ninjas? Please cite your sources!

Baylor was 19th in the country in three-point attempts, and #1 in percentage at 41.3%. Gonzaga was 44th in the country in attempts, and shot 36.81%.

We were 255th in the country in three-point attempts and shot around 36%.

I don't care if you're "old school." But just don't mangle the facts.

No facts mangled.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2021/stats-adv-offensive-rating

Look at three-point attempt rate. Rate not attempts gets to how emphasized 3s are to an offensive set. Also, look at Offensive Rating (points per possession). Gonzaga and Baylor 1 and 2. Obviously an important stat, weirdly so in this case. They get it done doing an average rate of 3s. Balanced.

Here are the correct stats for Three Point Field Goals Attempted:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/625

 

[astutegriz]

No facts mangled.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2021/stats-adv-offensive-rating

Look at three-point attempt rate. Rate not attempts gets to how emphasized 3s are to an offensive set. Also, look at Offensive Rating (points per possession). Gonzaga and Baylor 1 and 2. Obviously an important stat, weirdly so in this case. They get it done doing an average rate of 3s. Balanced.

Here are the correct stats for Three Point Field Goals Attempted:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/625

Implying RATE is not correct for describing emphasis on threes in the offense? Whatever dude. I can lead you to stats, but I can't make you look at them.

 

[UMFan12]

Three point rate takes pace out of the equation and is just instead the percentage of field goal attempts that came for 3. That’s a more accurate way of looking at who frequently ended possessions with a 3 point shot.

 

[citygriz]

Three point rate takes pace out of the equation and is just instead the percentage of field goal attempts that came for 3. That’s a more accurate way of looking at who frequently ended possessions with a 3 point shot.

So how does Montana stack up by your definition?

 

[UMFan12]

Three point rate takes pace out of the equation and is just instead the percentage of field goal attempts that came for 3. That’s a more accurate way of looking at who frequently ended possessions with a 3 point shot.

So how does Montana stack up by your definition?

334th

 

[AZGrizFan]

After seeing the this past year's GRIZ propensity for turnovers, and struggles to find offensive continuity, I understand the strategy this past season. Is it frustrating and annoying? Sure it is. I'm sure DeCuire and the team agree they have to take better care of the ball.

I feel, with our guard depth, we need to force do more defensively. Even with creating a few more turnovers or missed shots, would lead to more wins, and help the offense.

Just a few years ago, we were liking the pace, because of the skill sets of Rorie and Oguine. Like it or not, until the offense shows continuity, awareness, and discipline, DeCuire will keep tight reigns, understandably so, in my opinion.

I greatly respect your insights, grizrule. You're one of the most astute posters on this board. I wish you would come back and post more often.

But to think that our offensive woes come down to a few turnovers, or the need for more "force" on the defensive side of the ball, is in my opinion to overlook the flaws in DeCuire's offensive philosophy in the era of the three-ball. All teams go cold now and then, but I could cite game after game where our offense went dead for long stretches of time, taking us completely out of winnable games.

The only constant in life is change. Basketball since the Splash Brothers has changed but DeCuire has not. At the risk of boring this board further, I rest my case.

Question: Did this issue rear it's head just this year, or has it been an issue for a while, just masked by the play of certain players (Oguine, Pridgett, Rorie, etc.)?

Were we dead last in the conference in 3-point attempts at any other time in Decuire's time here? Has this been a trend or was it a 1-year thing?

 

[citygriz]

I greatly respect your insights, grizrule. You're one of the most astute posters on this board. I wish you would come back and post more often.

But to think that our offensive woes come down to a few turnovers, or the need for more "force" on the defensive side of the ball, is in my opinion to overlook the flaws in DeCuire's offensive philosophy in the era of the three-ball. All teams go cold now and then, but I could cite game after game where our offense went dead for long stretches of time, taking us completely out of winnable games.

The only constant in life is change. Basketball since the Splash Brothers has changed but DeCuire has not. At the risk of boring this board further, I rest my case.

Question: Did this issue rear it's head just this year, or has it been an issue for a while, just masked by the play of certain players (Oguine, Pridgett, Rorie, etc.)?

Were we dead last in the conference in 3-point attempts at any other time in Decuire's time here? Has this been a trend or was it a 1-year thing?

I believe--and have said it elsewhere--that DeCuire is a superior recruiter and outstanding defensive coach. (Not to mention a great mentor for young men.) I believe those qualities have kept us at the top of the conference.

But given a year when our high school recruits were young, most of the key transfers washed out and we weren't winning at the rate to which we've become accustomed, the offense took the blame. Gotta bitch about something, right? Especially in a pandemic?

Many will say, "Coach knows." Many more will say, "Citay, shut the fukc up. You've had your say!"

 

[AZGrizFan]

Question: Did this issue rear it's head just this year, or has it been an issue for a while, just masked by the play of certain players (Oguine, Pridgett, Rorie, etc.)?

Were we dead last in the conference in 3-point attempts at any other time in Decuire's time here? Has this been a trend or was it a 1-year thing?

I believe--and have said it elsewhere--that DeCuire is a superior recruiter and outstanding defensive coach. (Not to mention a great mentor for young men.) I believe those qualities have kept us at the top of the conference.

But given a year when our high school recruits were young, most of the key transfers washed out and we weren't winning at the rate to which we've become accustomed, the offense took the blame. Gotta bitch about something, right? Especially in a pandemic?

Many will say, "Coach knows." Many more will say, "Citay, shut the fukc up. You've had your say!"

agreed with the "gotta bitch about something" mantra....but that doesn't answer my question(s). has this been a trend? Or was this a one-year thing exacerbated by lack of cohesion, transfer failures, etc., etc.?

 

[grizindabox]

I greatly respect your insights, grizrule. You're one of the most astute posters on this board. I wish you would come back and post more often.

But to think that our offensive woes come down to a few turnovers, or the need for more "force" on the defensive side of the ball, is in my opinion to overlook the flaws in DeCuire's offensive philosophy in the era of the three-ball. All teams go cold now and then, but I could cite game after game where our offense went dead for long stretches of time, taking us completely out of winnable games.

The only constant in life is change. Basketball since the Splash Brothers has changed but DeCuire has not. At the risk of boring this board further, I rest my case.

Question: Did this issue rear it's head just this year, or has it been an issue for a while, just masked by the play of certain players (Oguine, Pridgett, Rorie, etc.)?

Were we dead last in the conference in 3-point attempts at any other time in Decuire's time here? Has this been a trend or was it a 1-year thing?

It is not a new thing. This team just had deficiencies in other areas that magnified the issue. Just look at rebounding and turnover margins. The lack of a decent passing post hampered the offense and flow also. UM has made a living on inside/outside flow to free up looks from 3 and they struggled with a drive -kick out approach with the huge liability of having no bigs that had vision/passing ability to find the open perimeter guy.

 

[GrizBall]

Question: Did this issue rear it's head just this year, or has it been an issue for a while, just masked by the play of certain players (Oguine, Pridgett, Rorie, etc.)?

Were we dead last in the conference in 3-point attempts at any other time in Decuire's time here? Has this been a trend or was it a 1-year thing?

It is not a new thing. This team just had deficiencies in other areas that magnified the issue. Just look at rebounding and turnover margins. The lack of a decent passing post hampered the offense and flow also. UM has made a living on inside/outside flow to free up looks from 3 and they struggled with a drive -kick out approach with the huge liability of having no bigs that had vision/passing ability to find the open perimeter guy.

I put the last 4 conference-only stats side by side to see if there were any offensive trends. I chose conference only because I believe non-con schedules are so variable that they can distort trends. I may be overly optimistic, but I think Freshmen becoming Sophomores and Sophomores becoming Juniors will take care of some of these issues.

FGA/3PA/FTA/PPG
2021 53.1/14.4/19.0/69.0
2020 57.4/15.4/14.7/74.1
2019 58.1/21.1/18.3/79.6
2018 58.9/14.9/23.9/80.4

FG%/3P%/FT%
2021 45.2/39.6/80.6
2020 49.8/39.4/74.5
2019 50.4/39.1/70.4
2018 48.7/37.2/72.6

While this year’s team did get fewer shots off, it had the best 3P% (by a little) and the best FT% (by a lot). However, they were also the worst FG% by quite a bit. For a young team they got to the line quite a bit which in theory should increase next year with an added weight room year. I think the low amount of FGA will increase just by limiting TOs (see bottom of this post). I also think the player’s shooting percentages will increase by being a year older – Bannan (43%FG/26%-3P), Vazquez (39%FG), Beasley (37%FG), Whitney (30%-3P).

Contrary to popular belief, this year’s team had a higher Three Point Rate than the ’20 and ’18 teams. The ’19 team had a very high Three Point Rate, but it also should be pointed out the Big Sky that year was awful, so I don’t know if that was a factor. According to KenPom it was 27 out of 32 conferences that year. The other years it was 17 or 18. So maybe Travis doesn’t like the 3 as the ’18, ’20 and ’21 teams roughly took the same number of 3’s per game. The ’18 team was last in the Big Sky in 3PA and the ’20 team was 10th out of 11 teams.


Ast/TO/ratio
2021 12.6/12.8/.98
2020 13.3/10.7/1.24
2019 15.7/11.6/1.35
2018 13.7/11.6/1.18

As someone mentioned TOs were a problem, but I feel this will get better just with age and Steadman no longer being on the team. Our team’s leaders in conference TOs and their conference A/TOs:

Whitney 48/33 = 1.45
Parker 80/32= 2.5
Steadman 4/27 =.15
Bannan 14/23 = .60
Beasley 10/18 = .55

In addition, none of our big men averaged more than 0.9 assts a game. This has to change. DCH averaged 1.4 in '20, Akoh 1.5 in '19and Krslovic 1.8 in '18, so it looks like the Griz big men don't contribute a lot of assists, but passing has to do with a lot more than assists.

 

[oldrunner]

Good analysis.

TOs may have been a problem, but only if you were averaging more than your opponents. Possessions per game, for and against, shooting percentages and fouls may be more telling. When it comes to possessions, rebounding is key. If I had to guess, I would go with rebounding and turnovers.

 

[PlayerRep]

It is not a new thing. This team just had deficiencies in other areas that magnified the issue. Just look at rebounding and turnover margins. The lack of a decent passing post hampered the offense and flow also. UM has made a living on inside/outside flow to free up looks from 3 and they struggled with a drive -kick out approach with the huge liability of having no bigs that had vision/passing ability to find the open perimeter guy.

I put the last 4 conference-only stats side by side to see if there were any offensive trends. I chose conference only because I believe non-con schedules are so variable that they can distort trends. I may be overly optimistic, but I think Freshmen becoming Sophomores and Sophomores becoming Juniors will take care of some of these issues.

FGA/3PA/FTA/PPG
2021 53.1/14.4/19.0/69.0
2020 57.4/15.4/14.7/74.1
2019 58.1/21.1/18.3/79.6
2018 58.9/14.9/23.9/80.4

FG%/3P%/FT%
2021 45.2/39.6/80.6
2020 49.8/39.4/74.5
2019 50.4/39.1/70.4
2018 48.7/37.2/72.6

While this year’s team did get fewer shots off, it had the best 3P% (by a little) and the best FT% (by a lot). However, they were also the worst FG% by quite a bit. For a young team they got to the line quite a bit which in theory should increase next year with an added weight room year. I think the low amount of FGA will increase just by limiting TOs (see bottom of this post). I also think the player’s shooting percentages will increase by being a year older – Bannan (43%FG/26%-3P), Vazquez (39%FG), Beasley (37%FG), Whitney (30%-3P).

Contrary to popular belief, this year’s team had a higher Three Point Rate than the ’20 and ’18 teams. The ’19 team had a very high Three Point Rate, but it also should be pointed out the Big Sky that year was awful, so I don’t know if that was a factor. According to KenPom it was 27 out of 32 conferences that year. The other years it was 17 or 18. So maybe Travis doesn’t like the 3 as the ’18, ’20 and ’21 teams roughly took the same number of 3’s per game. The ’18 team was last in the Big Sky in 3PA and the ’20 team was 10th out of 11 teams.


Ast/TO/ratio
2021 12.6/12.8/.98
2020 13.3/10.7/1.24
2019 15.7/11.6/1.35
2018 13.7/11.6/1.18

As someone mentioned TOs were a problem, but I feel this will get better just with age and Steadman no longer being on the team. Our team’s leaders in conference TOs and their conference A/TOs:

Whitney 48/33 = 1.45
Parker 80/32= 2.5
Steadman 4/27 =.15
Bannan 14/23 = .60
Beasley 10/18 = .55

In addition, none of our big men averaged more than 0.9 assts a game. This has to change. DCH averaged 1.4 in '20, Akoh 1.5 in '19and Krslovic 1.8 in '18, so it looks like the Griz big men don't contribute a lot of assists, but passing has to do with a lot more than assists.

Thx. Very interesting. I was surprised that there weren't more and bigger stat differences. I felt that UM's rebounding, and keeping the other team off the offensive boards at times, was weaker, or much weaker, than usual.