Fight On Montana Podcast- Lonnell Martin Jr. Interview

[gotgame75]

40% from 3 in actual games for one thing. No offense to Egun, but he is just another in a long line of armchair QB fan favorites that for some "strange reason" never seem to make it off the bench for meaningful minutes. Being somewhat productive in spot duty is one thing, but clearly Travis never trusted him enough to give him major minutes and he watched the guy day in and day out. I'll take his evaluation over the opinion of amateurs any day.

Egun was not brought in under a different regime. So if I understand you correctly he failed on his evaluation on Egun, but you’ll take his evaluation on Martin without question?

Clearly you didn't understand me correctly. I never once asserted that Egun came in under a different regime, but I see the totally illogical point you are trying to make. Every coach in the country brings in recruits that don't live up to expectations, so should we just forsake every talent evaluation going forward???

Egun had his chance to make his mark on the program, but the reality is he never made a huge impact despite being an eGriz-nominated breakout star. So if Travis believes that someone else can make a bigger contribution to the team than Egun (which would not be that big of a feat), then I believe him. Not every 6'4" 3 pt specialist is of equal talent.

 

[gotgame75]

40% from 3 in actual games for one thing. No offense to Egun, but he is just another in a long line of armchair QB fan favorites that for some "strange reason" never seem to make it off the bench for meaningful minutes. Being somewhat productive in spot duty is one thing, but clearly Travis never trusted him enough to give him major minutes and he watched the guy day in and day out. I'll take his evaluation over the opinion of amateurs any day.

Who are these "amateurs" that you speak of? Surely any e-griz poster could enlighten them! :lol:

I'm admittedly full on amateur, but I also recognize the complete ridiculousness of totally unrealistic fans that honestly believe they have better talent evaluation skills than those that do it for a living and watch these players for hours every day on and off the court.

It's not unique to the Griz, every team has fans that think that their potential savior is riding the bench because a coach is dropping the ball on lineup evaluation. It's amusing.

 

[GrizBall]

For the record Egun shot 38% from 3 in actual D-1 games this year.

Actually it was 35.1% and I'm not impressed. Egun made 13 3's the entire season. Martin was a full-time starter and his team's go-to scoring threat.

Like I said, Egun shot 38% in D-1 games (I rarely if ever pay attention to glorified scrimmage stats). Martin was a full-time starter and his team’s go-to scoring threat on at the JC level. Is this really an apples-to-apples comparison?

How many D-1 players weren’t a full-time starter and team’s go-to scoring threat on their last team?

Do you really think Egun couldn’t have achieved similar stats last year at a JC?

 

[GrizBall]

Egun was not brought in under a different regime. So if I understand you correctly he failed on his evaluation on Egun, but you’ll take his evaluation on Martin without question?

Clearly you didn't understand me correctly. I never once asserted that Egun came in under a different regime, but I see the totally illogical point you are trying to make. Every coach in the country brings in recruits that don't live up to expectations, so should we just forsake every talent evaluation going forward???

Egun had his chance to make his mark on the program, but the reality is he never made a huge impact despite being an eGriz-nominated breakout star. So if Travis believes that someone else can make a bigger contribution to the team than Egun (which would not be that big of a feat), then I believe him. Not every 6'4" 3 pt specialist is of equal talent.

Re-read my comments. Where did I say Egun should have played more? You jumped to a conclusion that was never there.

I never intended to get into a pissing match. A lot of people on this board did some good research on Martin (which I complimented) but essentially all of their comments sound like they were describing Egun. Am I wrong? And all I asked was what was the difference between Martin and Egun. Seemed like a fair question.

And to suggest he “forsake talent evaluation” is a ludicrous comment and a very wild jump from my comments. Travis has brought in tons of kids all with various degrees of success or non-success. The point was just because he makes a decision on a guy doesn’t automatically make it a good one (the same with every coach in every sport). You don’t need to be a “professional” talent evaluator to come to that “logical” conclusion.

And even if I advocated for more time for Mack, Egun or Freddy Brown so what? It’s a fan board. Boards are nothing but “amateurs” that complain about the strategies of “professional” coaches all day every day. It seems weird to be on a message board and feel the need to call out the “ridiculousness” of an “amateur” making a comment about a “professional.” During the season you could literally respond with the context of your comments to 40 posts a day.

I have no dog in the fight. Before the thread was hijacked, I asked a very basic and fair question, what do the people that have seen Martin play feel are the main differences between him and Egun?

 

[LittleBear]

Actually it was 35.1% and I'm not impressed. Egun made 13 3's the entire season. Martin was a full-time starter and his team's go-to scoring threat.

Like I said, Egun shot 38% in D-1 games (I rarely if ever pay attention to glorified scrimmage stats). Martin was a full-time starter and his team’s go-to scoring threat on at the JC level. Is this really an apples-to-apples comparison?

How many D-1 players weren’t a full-time starter and team’s go-to scoring threat on their last team?

Do you really think Egun couldn’t have achieved similar stats last year at a JC?

I loved watching Eddy, he brought a ton of energy on defense and was a spark plug off the bench, especially against Weber in the semis...I would say the biggest difference between Eddy and Lonnell is that while Eddy shot a decent percentage, he didn't HUNT 3's. I don't think he's inherently a 3 point shooter. The guy who misses 5 in row and shoots the wide open 6th. imo Lonnell knows he's a shooter. I don't think he'll be passing up too many wide open 3's. Wherever Eddy ends up, I think you'll see more of a slasher/shooter player.

 

[GrizBall]

I loved watching Eddy, he brought a ton of energy on defense and was a spark plug off the bench, especially against Weber in the semis...I would say the biggest difference between Eddy and Lonnell is that while Eddy shot a decent percentage, he didn't HUNT 3's. I don't think he's inherently a 3 point shooter. The guy who misses 5 in row and shoots the wide open 6th. imo Lonnell knows he's a shooter. I don't think he'll be passing up too many wide open 3's. Wherever Eddy ends up, I think you'll see more of a slasher/shooter player.

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. So I guess then the question becomes how does that skill set fit in with a team that was 342nd out of 347 D-1 teams in 3pt attempts? Is this an offense that will allow him to do what he does best?

I guess we will see come November.

 

[citygriz]

I loved watching Eddy, he brought a ton of energy on defense and was a spark plug off the bench, especially against Weber in the semis...I would say the biggest difference between Eddy and Lonnell is that while Eddy shot a decent percentage, he didn't HUNT 3's. I don't think he's inherently a 3 point shooter. The guy who misses 5 in row and shoots the wide open 6th. imo Lonnell knows he's a shooter. I don't think he'll be passing up too many wide open 3's. Wherever Eddy ends up, I think you'll see more of a slasher/shooter player.

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. So I guess then the question becomes how does that skill set fit in with a team that was 342nd out of 347 D-1 teams in 3pt attempts? Is this an offense that will allow him to do what he does best?

I guess we will see come November.

Yes, and this will be the biggest issue for me next year: What do we do about this offense--or lack, thereof.

Okay, DeCuire doesn't believe in the three-point shot. We all saw time and time again our kids pass up a wide open three-point shot for a drive and a turnover.

Let's look at assists per game--a solid indication of ball movement and passing efficiency. The top teams--Iowa and Gonzaga--averaged around 19 assists per game. We averaged 12.7, ranking 210th in the country. (Inherent bias: I watch a lot of Warrior games, and they lead the NBA with over 27 assists per game.)

Our offense is utterly stagnant. Few assists from the post. (And don't tell me post players can't pass. Nikola Jokic of Denver is sixth in the NBA in assists.) Little movement off the ball. I was so frustrated with this at one point this year that I titled a thread, "CUT TO THE EFFING BASKET!"

Fast break? How often do you see that. The Lakers had Showtime. We have Bedtime.

Here's how I would describe our offense: Pass the ball around until one of our guards--mostly Parker or Whitney-- can find an opening to slash to the basket. Or the shot clock is winding down and so one of our kids--usually quite efficiently--is forced to shoot a three.

That's the frustrating thing to me about our offense. We have shooters who are afraid to shoot. I put that squarely on DeCuire.

Nor am I just a critic. (Nobody ever built a monument to a critic!) I've made a proposal: That DeCuire go out and find an offensive coordinator, the while he oversees the defense where he is excellent. After all, being a coach is much like being a manger. You have to delegate!

It's time in my opinion for DeCuire to do that.

 

[flatheadgriz406]

I loved watching Eddy, he brought a ton of energy on defense and was a spark plug off the bench, especially against Weber in the semis...I would say the biggest difference between Eddy and Lonnell is that while Eddy shot a decent percentage, he didn't HUNT 3's. I don't think he's inherently a 3 point shooter. The guy who misses 5 in row and shoots the wide open 6th. imo Lonnell knows he's a shooter. I don't think he'll be passing up too many wide open 3's. Wherever Eddy ends up, I think you'll see more of a slasher/shooter player.

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. So I guess then the question becomes how does that skill set fit in with a team that was 342nd out of 347 D-1 teams in 3pt attempts? Is this an offense that will allow him to do what he does best?

I guess we will see come November.

Yes, and this will be the biggest issue for me next year: What do we do about this offense--or lack, thereof.

Okay, DeCuire doesn't believe in the three-point shot. We all saw time and time again our kids pass up a wide open three-point shot for a drive and a turnover.

Let's look at assists per game--a solid indication of ball movement and passing efficiency. The top teams--Iowa and Gonzaga--averaged around 19 assists per game. We averaged 12.7, ranking 210th in the country. (Inherent bias: I watch a lot of Warrior games, and they lead the NBA with over 27 assists per game.)

Our offense is utterly stagnant. Few assists from the post. (And don't tell me post players can't pass. Nikola Jokic of Denver is sixth in the NBA in assists.) Little movement off the ball. I was so frustrated with this at one point this year that I titled a thread, "CUT TO THE EFFING BASKET!"

Fast break? How often do you see that. The Lakers had Showtime. We have Bedtime.

Here's how I would describe our offense: Pass the ball around until one of our guards--mostly Parker or Whitney-- can find an opening to slash to the basket. Or the shot clock is winding down and so one of our kids--usually quite efficiently--is forced to shoot a three.

That's the frustrating thing to me about our offense. We have shooters who are afraid to shoot. I put that squarely on DeCuire.

Nor am I just a critic. (Nobody ever built a monument to a critic!) I've made a proposal: That DeCuire go out and find an offensive coordinator, the while he oversees the defense where he is excellent. After all, being a coach is much like being a manger. You have to delegate!

It's time in my opinion for DeCuire to do that.
[/quote]

I agree Citay the only problem is Coach Cobb is the Defensive coordinator and Coach Decuire is the offensive coordinator. He loves set plays that create miss matches. The miss matches come either through a switch or getting a guy the ball in a position the defense is at a weakness. These are great but only work in a slow deliberate way which is .... agonizing at times.

 

[MikeyGriz]

I'm all for a great defense, but also like to see lots of offense. Especially if it comes as a result of that defense!