Flat Tax

[Bay Area Cat]

I will have a job regardless of what tax system we have. Rest assured, my only vested interest is in showing you that you can't take a simplistic view of taxes and expect to get much traction. That, in itself, is why I will always have a job.

That's quite a powerhouse list of countries you have listed. Let's get on that bandwagon. How are things in the economy in Russia these days?

I also took a peek at several of those countries tax structures -- they aren't simple like you describe them. They are still very complicated and includes lots of incentives and other deductions. Some do have only one tax rate, but (as you will learn the first day of any tax class) the tax rate is the least complicated part of the entire tax process. Defining what is income and what is a deduction is what take 99% of the tax code, and no other country has been able to simplify that. Why? Because if you make it simple, it is simple to avoid tax. As people learn how to avoid tax, the government adds more rules to squeeze it off. And so it goes.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I was going to respond that your ignorant because you have read all that tax stuff! I am kidding.

I guess that word wasn't the one to use, I should have used uninformed. Not that you are, and I apologize if you took it that way.

 

[Bay Area Cat]

That is a very clever talking point, though. I'm sure you're not the first to use it, either. "Don't listen to those people who actually understand taxes, as they are just part of a conspiracy to maintain the status quo out of self-interest."

And I'm sure some people buy into that. Nicely done. :clap:

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I didn't mean it as a talking point, but if you take it that way fine.

I will say that I don't want anyone that is involved in taxes to have any influence if there ever is a change in the tax code. IMO they are just part of the problem. It should be voted on by the people.

 

[Bay Area Cat]

I was going to respond that your ignorant because you have read all that tax stuff! I am kidding.

I guess that word wasn't the one to use, I should have used uninformed. Not that you are, and I apologize if you took it that way.

Crap! Couldn't you have thown out the olive leaf BEFORE I spent way too long reading up on Russian and Lithuanian tax law to respond while pissy? Now my fiance is going to be pissed because I'm late.... oops.

 

[Bay Area Cat]

I didn't mean it as a talking point, but if you take it that way fine.

I will say that I don't want anyone that is involved in taxes to have any influence if there ever is a change in the tax code. IMO they are just part of the problem. It should be voted on by the people.

With all due respect, I think people voting on tax law is an awful idea. We do that a lot hear in CA, and all that happens is people vote to lower taxes and increase spending (the easy answers), and then the legislature is left with an impossible job of cleaning things up.

The simple truth? Taxes, by their very nature, will never be easy. That's just a reality. It's nice to dream of a different scenario, but it won't happen. There are tweaks that can be made, but in the end, it would be bad for our country and our economy if any changes weren't done exclusively by experts in the area. The average person simply doesn't have a firm enough grasp on taxation and economics to vote on something like that in an effective and constructive manner. They would simply vote for whatever sounded good, and this topic isn't one where marketing should dictate policy (not to say that it doesn't, but the representative democracy does put some filters into place here and there). It really is a very, very complicated field, and changes to tax law have dramatic impacts on all parts of the economy.

Some changes do need to be made ... but as a strong fiscal conservative, let me assure you that the flat tax is not the answer.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I will have a job regardless of what tax system we have. Rest assured, my only vested interest is in showing you that you can't take a simplistic view of taxes and expect to get much traction. That, in itself, is why I will always have a job.

That's quite a powerhouse list of countries you have listed. Let's get on that bandwagon. How are things in the economy in Russia these days?

I also took a peek at several of those countries tax structures -- they aren't simple like you describe them. They are still very complicated and includes lots of incentives and other deductions. Some do have only one tax rate, but (as you will learn the first day of any tax class) the tax rate is the least complicated part of the entire tax process. Defining what is income and what is a deduction is what take 99% of the tax code, and no other country has been able to simplify that. Why? Because if you make it simple, it is simple to avoid tax. As people learn how to avoid tax, the government adds more rules to squeeze it off. And so it goes.

Hey I agree with most of what you have in this post. Taxes need to be simple and not the way they are now.

Every year I do things on my taxes that "I" interpret from the current tax code. I pick one thing each year that really has nothing to do with what is really going on with my return. I can justify this just as well as they can in the shitty way it is written. Will I someday get in trouble for this, I hope so. I deserve it according to the IRS and they way they do business.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I didn't mean it as a talking point, but if you take it that way fine.

I will say that I don't want anyone that is involved in taxes to have any influence if there ever is a change in the tax code. IMO they are just part of the problem. It should be voted on by the people.

With all due respect, I think people voting on tax law is an awful idea. We do that a lot hear in CA, and all that happens is people vote to lower taxes and increase spending (the easy answers), and then the legislature is left with an impossible job of cleaning things up.

The simple truth? Taxes, by their very nature, will never be easy. That's just a reality. It's nice to dream of a different scenario, but it won't happen. There are tweaks that can be made, but in the end, it would be bad for our country and our economy if any changes weren't done exclusively by experts in the area. The average person simply doesn't have a firm enough grasp on taxation and economics to vote on something like that. It really is a very, very complicated field, and changes to tax law have dramatic impacts on all parts of the economy.

Some changes do need to be made ... but as a strong fiscal conservative, let me assure you that the flat tax is not the answer.

I consider myself a strong fiscal conservative and I want anything but the current tax code. I just like what I have read about the flat tax. I am not saying it is the answer, just a better solution than what we have now.

Sorry about making you late and challenging you to look up the Russia and Lithuanian tax law.
I am done arguing this with professionals! :thumb:

 

[Bay Area Cat]

I will have a job regardless of what tax system we have. Rest assured, my only vested interest is in showing you that you can't take a simplistic view of taxes and expect to get much traction. That, in itself, is why I will always have a job.

That's quite a powerhouse list of countries you have listed. Let's get on that bandwagon. How are things in the economy in Russia these days?

I also took a peek at several of those countries tax structures -- they aren't simple like you describe them. They are still very complicated and includes lots of incentives and other deductions. Some do have only one tax rate, but (as you will learn the first day of any tax class) the tax rate is the least complicated part of the entire tax process. Defining what is income and what is a deduction is what take 99% of the tax code, and no other country has been able to simplify that. Why? Because if you make it simple, it is simple to avoid tax. As people learn how to avoid tax, the government adds more rules to squeeze it off. And so it goes.

Hey I agree with most of what you have in this post. Taxes need to be simple and not the way they are now.

Every year I do things on my taxes that "I" interpret from the current tax code. I pick one thing each year that really has nothing to do with what is really going on with my return. I can justify this just as well as they can in the shitty way it is written. Will I someday get in trouble for this, I hope so. I deserve it according to the IRS and they way they do business.

If the tax code isn't defined concisely (as it isn't intended to), you are required to look to the IRS regulations, which expand upon the rules (and clarify things), and then to court cases, if necessary. Most of the answers are out there eventually, they are just not always easy to get to.

But this is the part that will never go away. Defining what is income and what is a deduction will always be complicated, and that's just the nature of the beast.