GRIZ ISU

[grizzlyjournal]

I don't mind being called lame for questioning occasional officiating calls. :lol: I personally advocate that refs NOT blow whistles on every player flop or on-floor scrum or scramble. I know it's a tough "call" for refs, but the NCAA was clear during this summer's meetings that refs should take action against flops and foul "faking."

I AM going to stick with my premise after yesterday's games that excessive whistles have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games I've seen this year. On Thursday, for instance, 42 fouls were called in the ISU vs Griz game and 52 were called in the Weber State vs MSU game. That's well more than a foul per minute of game time. I've read recently that other D1 conferences are "encouraging" refs to consider an ideal foul-to-game action ratio of between 18-to-25 fouls-called per game. Of course, the games and teams involved have the most impact, but the point is clear: fewer fouls allow for better game flow.

 

[BigSkyBreakdown]

ISU vs NAU WBB game earlier this year had 52 fouls. While we did our recap of that game we also did a review of that weekends games, and the total fouls called in both nights matchup's.

52, 43, 35, 31 & 27 for one night
42, 41, 28. 26 & 25 the other night.


Grizzlyjournal, I hope you are right in the fouls per game ratio you speak of as the whistle messes with the flow and entertainment value of watching a game.

We also did this final possession recap of that game. Quiet the ending leading into OT where ISU loses.

https://youtu.be/Fp-zNoKSJwA

Regards,
BSB

 

[Zirg]

I don't mind being called lame for questioning occasional officiating calls. :lol: I personally advocate that refs NOT blow whistles on every player flop or on-floor scrum or scramble. I know it's a tough "call" for refs, but the NCAA was clear during this summer's meetings that refs should take action against flops and foul "faking."

I AM going to stick with my premise after yesterday's games that excessive whistles have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games I've seen this year. On Thursday, for instance, 42 fouls were called in the ISU vs Griz game and 52 were called in the Weber State vs MSU game. That's well more than a foul per minute of game time. I've read recently that other D1 conferences are "encouraging" refs to consider an ideal foul-to-game action ratio of between 18-to-25 fouls-called per game. Of course, the games and teams involved have the most impact, but the point is clear: fewer fouls allow for better game flow.

I respect your opinion, and you might be on to something, but I will continue to defend the refs and believe it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to whatever the refs are calling the game.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

I don't mind being called lame for questioning occasional officiating calls. :lol: I personally advocate that refs NOT blow whistles on every player flop or on-floor scrum or scramble. I know it's a tough "call" for refs, but the NCAA was clear during this summer's meetings that refs should take action against flops and foul "faking."

I AM going to stick with my premise after yesterday's games that excessive whistles have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games I've seen this year. On Thursday, for instance, 42 fouls were called in the ISU vs Griz game and 52 were called in the Weber State vs MSU game. That's well more than a foul per minute of game time. I've read recently that other D1 conferences are "encouraging" refs to consider an ideal foul-to-game action ratio of between 18-to-25 fouls-called per game. Of course, the games and teams involved have the most impact, but the point is clear: fewer fouls allow for better game flow.

I respect your opinion, and you might be on to something, but I will continue to defend the refs and believe it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to whatever the refs are calling the game.

What about the stance, the premise, that excessive fouls have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games?

 

[Zirg]

I respect your opinion, and you might be on to something, but I will continue to defend the refs and believe it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to whatever the refs are calling the game.

What about the stance, the premise, that excessive fouls have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games?

I really don't know about every-other D1 game this year as I have watched very few games besides UM games and haven't had the opportunity to notice if the "natural flow of many D! games" has changed, but I do know that Anderson is a foul-machine irregardless of the refs.

 

[Hoops watcher]

What about the stance, the premise, that excessive fouls have been impacting the natural flow of many D1 games?

I really don't know about every-other D1 game this year as I have watched very few games besides UM games and haven't had the opportunity to notice if the "natural flow of many D! games" has changed, but I do know that Anderson is a foul-machine irregardless of the refs.

Have you watched many the last half dozen or more years? I have been to most and the zebras when they get whistle happy absolutely kill any flow or momentum that develops. It sucks for those watching and the players have to hate it. We'll note approvingly on nights when there are less than 10 fouls between teams after 10 minutes of half 1. More often than not it'll be close to 20 by half's end.

 

[Zirg]

I really don't know about every-other D1 game this year as I have watched very few games besides UM games and haven't had the opportunity to notice if the "natural flow of many D! games" has changed, but I do know that Anderson is a foul-machine irregardless of the refs.

Have you watched many the last half dozen or more years? I have been to most and the zebras when they get whistle happy absolutely kill any flow or momentum that develops. It sucks for those watching and the players have to hate it. We'll note approvingly on nights when there are less than 10 fouls between teams after 10 minutes of half 1. More often than not it'll be close to 20 by half's end.

Well, now you sound like a paranoid referee-complainer, if that is a term. I haven't noticed the trend you are portraying personally. I am a former official in several sports, so maybe I am more lenient to give the refs the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Zirg]

I really don't know about every-other D1 game this year as I have watched very few games besides UM games and haven't had the opportunity to notice if the "natural flow of many D! games" has changed, but I do know that Anderson is a foul-machine irregardless of the refs.

Have you watched many the last half dozen or more years? I have been to most and the zebras when they get whistle happy absolutely kill any flow or momentum that develops. It sucks for those watching and the players have to hate it. We'll note approvingly on nights when there are less than 10 fouls between teams after 10 minutes of half 1. More often than not it'll be close to 20 by half's end.

and yes, I have been to 95% of Griz home games for the last 30+ years. Ppl will always complain about the refs, no matter what they do. I want consistency. Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt, IMO.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Have you watched many the last half dozen or more years? I have been to most and the zebras when they get whistle happy absolutely kill any flow or momentum that develops. It sucks for those watching and the players have to hate it. We'll note approvingly on nights when there are less than 10 fouls between teams after 10 minutes of half 1. More often than not it'll be close to 20 by half's end.

and yes, I have been to 95% of Griz home games for the last 30+ years. Ppl will always complain about the refs, no matter what they do. I want consistency. Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt, IMO.

So, Zirg, the last sentence you wrote about referees: "Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt..." Is almost, word-for-word, what one of the 3 refs who called Thursday's game said to me in a post-game conversation (in the lounge of a local hotel) about the challenges of his profession. A friend and I were having a post-game beverage at the lounge and the ref (in "street" clothing) took a seat near us. I approached him (I can't remember his hame) and said, "So, are Missoula fans the worst you've had to deal with?" He laughed & said, "No way!" Over the next 45 minutes we had what was THE most enlightening conversation about the challenges of basketball officiating I've ever had... with anyone (better than a clinic). This ref has called games in virtually every western United States D1 arena over the past 10 seasons and knows the best and the worst (Montana's floor has a dead spot. A couple of arenas don't have enough oxygen. The floor on a couple arenas start sweating & get slippery) Etc. etc. But regarding the job of officiating... He kept returning to your point above: "Tell the coaches and players what you're going to call, and then be as consistent as you can be. That's all you can do." The difficult part, he carefully explained, was that officials have to know how to call games differently every night... being aware of unique factors: players with "reputations," coaches with "reputations," conference administrators who make specific demands about how games "must" be called, and lastly (he worded this very carefully), how to work with other officials... some you know and some you've never worked with. I've thought repeatedly about that conversation and it seems an interesting coincidence we're discussing a game where he officiated this past Thursday. With due respect to officials, I want to be careful here... but a big challenge for professional officials is learning how to work efficiently with other referees. Sometimes, it's a distraction just learning how to call a game efficiently with other refs he said. "You have to let your co-workers know how you ref games, sometimes." (some who are out of shape; some who have hot tempers of their own; some who tell you how to make calls.). I quickly realized: "Tough job." But he said one more thing that I respect (Rough paraphrase, here. This is from a conversation I had in 2018! )... "We know we're usually going to be the guys everyone loves to hate. We can handle that. We make mistakes, but I never look back. I just focus on making the next call the right call."

 

[fanofzoo]

and yes, I have been to 95% of Griz home games for the last 30+ years. Ppl will always complain about the refs, no matter what they do. I want consistency. Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt, IMO.

So, Zirg, the last sentence you wrote about referees: "Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt..." Is almost, word-for-word, what one of the 3 refs who called Thursday's game said to me in a post-game conversation (in the lounge of a local hotel) about the challenges of his profession. A friend and I were having a post-game beverage at the lounge and the ref (in "street" clothing) took a seat near us. I approached him (I can't remember his hame) and said, "So, are Missoula fans the worst you've had to deal with?" He laughed & said, "No way!" Over the next 45 minutes we had what was THE most enlightening conversation about the challenges of basketball officiating I've ever had... with anyone (better than a clinic). This ref has called games in virtually every western United States D1 arena over the past 10 seasons and knows the best and the worst (Montana's floor has a dead spot. A couple of arenas don't have enough oxygen. The floor on a couple arenas start sweating & get slippery) Etc. etc. But regarding the job of officiating... He kept returning to your point above: "Tell the coaches and players what you're going to call, and then be as consistent as you can be. That's all you can do." The difficult part, he carefully explained, was that officials have to know how to call games differently every night... being aware of unique factors: players with "reputations," coaches with "reputations," conference administrators who make specific demands about how games "must" be called, and lastly (he worded this very carefully), how to work with other officials... some you know and some you've never worked with. I've thought repeatedly about that conversation and it seems an interesting coincidence we're discussing a game where he officiated this past Thursday. With due respect to officials, I want to be careful here... but a big challenge for professional officials is learning how to work efficiently with other referees. Sometimes, it's a distraction just learning how to call a game efficiently with other refs he said. "You have to let your co-workers know how you ref games, sometimes." (some who are out of shape; some who have hot tempers of their own; some who tell you how to make calls.). I quickly realized: "Tough job." But he said one more thing that I respect (Rough paraphrase, here. This is from a conversation I had in 2018! )... "We know we're usually going to be the guys everyone loves to hate. We can handle that. We make mistakes, but I never look back. I just focus on making the next call the right call."

What no conversion about "make-up calls" ?

 

[grizzlyjournal]

So, Zirg, the last sentence you wrote about referees: "Once they establish what's gonna be called, it's up to the players to adapt..." Is almost, word-for-word, what one of the 3 refs who called Thursday's game said to me in a post-game conversation (in the lounge of a local hotel) about the challenges of his profession. A friend and I were having a post-game beverage at the lounge and the ref (in "street" clothing) took a seat near us. I approached him (I can't remember his hame) and said, "So, are Missoula fans the worst you've had to deal with?" He laughed & said, "No way!" Over the next 45 minutes we had what was THE most enlightening conversation about the challenges of basketball officiating I've ever had... with anyone (better than a clinic). This ref has called games in virtually every western United States D1 arena over the past 10 seasons and knows the best and the worst (Montana's floor has a dead spot. A couple of arenas don't have enough oxygen. The floor on a couple arenas start sweating & get slippery) Etc. etc. But regarding the job of officiating... He kept returning to your point above: "Tell the coaches and players what you're going to call, and then be as consistent as you can be. That's all you can do." The difficult part, he carefully explained, was that officials have to know how to call games differently every night... being aware of unique factors: players with "reputations," coaches with "reputations," conference administrators who make specific demands about how games "must" be called, and lastly (he worded this very carefully), how to work with other officials... some you know and some you've never worked with. I've thought repeatedly about that conversation and it seems an interesting coincidence we're discussing a game where he officiated this past Thursday. With due respect to officials, I want to be careful here... but a big challenge for professional officials is learning how to work efficiently with other referees. Sometimes, it's a distraction just learning how to call a game efficiently with other refs he said. "You have to let your co-workers know how you ref games, sometimes." (some who are out of shape; some who have hot tempers of their own; some who tell you how to make calls.). I quickly realized: "Tough job." But he said one more thing that I respect (Rough paraphrase, here. This is from a conversation I had in 2018! )... "We know we're usually going to be the guys everyone loves to hate. We can handle that. We make mistakes, but I never look back. I just focus on making the next call the right call."

What no conversion about "make-up calls" ?

Nope! But he did talk about "difficult fans." I just didn't want to embarrass you!

 

[fanofzoo]

What no conversion about "make-up calls" ?

Nope! But he did talk about "difficult fans." I just didn't want to embarrass you!

Touche