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How Will the Coronavirus Impact the Economy?

How will this University ....that depends dearly year-in and year-out on every nickel of it's 5 million dollar-a year producing cash cow of a Football Program....to fund the typical yearly shortfalls within the school?? Double whammy for Missoula businesses as well.

time for a beer....
 
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
I think we'll see many aspects of society as we know it get a great update such as education. I recall the University of Phoenix had 475,000 students in 2010. Why the hell does Montana need 425 independent school districts and all the administrators and teachers in those podunk schools when online instruction could serve the same purpose, especially administratively.
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.
 
kemajic said:
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
I think we'll see many aspects of society as we know it get a great update such as education. I recall the University of Phoenix had 475,000 students in 2010. Why the hell does Montana need 425 independent school districts and all the administrators and teachers in those podunk schools when online instruction could serve the same purpose, especially administratively.
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

Good point. And, based on only anecdotal info from my teacher wife and her teacher friends so far, the MT online experience for K-12 teaching this spring, is going to be somewhere between bad and a distastes. My characterization. Not their's.

Kids have disappeared. Families don't have or have not figured out the online stuff. The families have been offered devices from the schools and free internet from a provider, but some still aren't using/doing it. Hands on help for lower performers is almost non-existent. Feel free to tell us how to help non-performers without being with them. Kids learn from their peers. There's not much of that with online instruction.
 
PlayerRep said:
kemajic said:
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

Good point. And, based on only anecdotal info from my teacher wife and her teacher friends so far, the MT online experience for K-12 teaching this spring, is going to be somewhere between bad and a distastes. My characterization. Not their's.

Kids have disappeared. Families don't have or have not figured out the online stuff. The families have been offered devices from the schools and free internet from a provider, but some still aren't using/doing it. Hands on help for lower performers is almost non-existent. Feel free to tell us how to help non-performers without being with them. Kids learn from their peers. There's not much of that with online instruction.
As teachers we are finding much the same thing North of the Border. I teach in a pretty big city I can't imagine the problems rural places would be having with internet access.
 
kemajic said:
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
I think we'll see many aspects of society as we know it get a great update such as education. I recall the University of Phoenix had 475,000 students in 2010. Why the hell does Montana need 425 independent school districts and all the administrators and teachers in those podunk schools when online instruction could serve the same purpose, especially administratively.
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

Rest assured I'm aware of the Huawei Cell Towers throughout the state rendering wireless virtually useless as the FCC directive told them to get that Chinese company out of the U.S. and having inexperienced folks such as Rogala represent us on the FCC


talking with the various service providers that don't want to serve rural areas (think Nemont) but it's up to us to make this happen, not discuss the limitations (or are those delimitations?).

When I was a kid, if I didn't get a loan from bank x, I went to bank y. When I looked at business ventures, if a lawyer told me I couldn't do such and such because of community ordinances, I would seek out lawyers who could (and would) assist me in getting a waiver.

A quick glance through the major newspaper's educational sections will quickly reveal Montana has done a much better job implementing online instruction than most huge urban schools, to include the one our former OPI Secretary is superintendent of, Seattle. The tiny little school system I'm in, the superintentent did exactly what Juneau did in Seattle. They wouldn't distribute system technology because some of the students didn't have access to wifi and they felt that would be a FAPE violation...which leads me back to my contention that there are way too many chiefs and not enough Indians running the schools in Montana. We're worse than the feds inhouse fighting amonst FEMA, HHS, the military, etc. as they fail to distribute critical medical supplies and even how to conduct a countrywide lockdown during this pandemic.
 
BozAngelesGriz said:
PlayerRep said:
I"m afraid AZ may be right, or pretty close.

The economy and the human impacts of the virus are not mutually exclusive. The economic ramifications may be worse (than those of the virus) only because of the direction we took to contain the disease. The “business as usual” route would have likely tipped the scales in the other direction; it’s a choice of people or money. Either way there would be massive fallout. I’m glad that so far we have chosen the ‘people’ option.

Incorrect. It’s a choice of control or freedom. BOTH choices involve “people”.

People who are being devastated. Lives are being ruined. Businesses are failing. Freedoms are being lost. People dying or will die from stress, suicide, murder/suicides, illnesses brought on or exacerbated by the stresses, increased child and spouse abuse, etc., etc., etc.

All for what? A made up pandemic where the original predictions were so bad as to be fucking comical if it weren’t destroying the country in the process. What happens the next time a novel virus appears? Because it happens about every 2 years....we gonna shut down the country again? Destroy the economy again? This simply can NOT be the solution. We can’t destroy America to save it.
 
kemajic said:
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
I think we'll see many aspects of society as we know it get a great update such as education. I recall the University of Phoenix had 475,000 students in 2010. Why the hell does Montana need 425 independent school districts and all the administrators and teachers in those podunk schools when online instruction could serve the same purpose, especially administratively.
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

And that doesn’t even touch on the “social” aspect of school....even if it WERE possible I dont’ think it’s a good idea....
 
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
kemajic said:
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

Rest assured I'm aware of the Huawei Cell Towers throughout the state rendering wireless virtually useless as the FCC directive told them to get that Chinese company out of the U.S. and having inexperienced folks such as Rogala represent us on the FCC


talking with the various service providers that don't want to serve rural areas (think Nemont) but it's up to us to make this happen, not discuss the limitations (or are those delimitations?).

When I was a kid, if I didn't get a loan from bank x, I went to bank y. When I looked at business ventures, if a lawyer told me I couldn't do such and such because of community ordinances, I would seek out lawyers who could (and would) assist me in getting a waiver.

A quick glance through the major newspaper's educational sections will quickly reveal Montana has done a much better job implementing online instruction than most huge urban schools, to include the one our former OPI Secretary is superintendent of, Seattle. The tiny little school system I'm in, the superintentent did exactly what Juneau did in Seattle. They wouldn't distribute system technology because some of the students didn't have access to wifi and they felt that would be a FAPE violation...which leads me back to my contention that there are way too many chiefs and not enough Indians running the schools in Montana. We're worse than the feds inhouse fighting amonst FEMA, HHS, the military, etc. as they fail to distribute critical medical supplies and even how to conduct a countrywide lockdown during this pandemic.

Who are you talking to at Nemont to get the belief that they don't want to serve rural areas? While Nemont does a lot of things I don't agree with, one thing they do, and do well, is support the small communities they serve, especially those up here on the Hi-Line. Kilgore has made many questionable decisions, but he has bought into and supports rural Montana. They've been creating Free Wifi hotspots in most towns for those who don't have internet access at home. They've donated chromebooks to three schools so far so that every child has a device they can connect with. If we lose Nemont and others like Three Rivers, Mid-Rivers, etc, who is going to take their place? US West isn't coming back. Both Verizon and AT&T have realized this part of the country doesn't fit their profit models.

My wife is a school councilor and she'll tell you, most of the push back to do distance learning using technology is coming from parents. Some because they don't currently have access (however Nemont is doing what they can to eliminate any hurdles for that at the moment) and others because they don't understand it and can't/won't help their child if it involves a tablet instead of paper. They are demanding hard copy assignments. On top of that, there are classes that simply need hands on learning that can't be accomplished on-line. I can't imagine how a shop teacher is supposed to teach his students anything if he can't have them in a shop to learn how to weld, woodwork, etc.

I do get what you are saying, and there are schools out there that do need to consolidate. Froid and Medicine Lake are two that are stuggling to fill teaching positions and have low numbers already.They are only 12 miles apart. They need to consolidate to eliminate a lot of wasted spending. But to put a blanket statement out that all schools should do the same ignores the fact that there are issues with distance learning. Besides the technology issues, not every student would benefit from such a system. As stated above, how are certain hands on classes going to adjust to a lack of class/lab time? The other thing to realize, while they do cost money, the school is the heart and sole of many of these communities. There is a reason the Class C state tournaments consistently have much higher attendence rates than the Class AA tournaments. In small towns the school is a meeting place and sense of pride for the entire community. How are you going to replace that?
 
AZGrizFan said:
kemajic said:
This makes a (misinformed) assumption that there is adequate ISP coverage throughout this rural state and that everyone can afford and manage it as well as the computers required. You are skipping a number of fundamentals required for this concept to succeed.

And that doesn’t even touch on the “social” aspect of school....even if it WERE possible I dont’ think it’s a good idea....

I chuckled when I read the line highlighting "social." I had an uncle who lived his entire life in that megatropolis called Richland and just viewed the pics one of my cousins posted of the Opheim and Circle high school basetball teams from the 70s. I believe you all know where the Selvig brothers played their high school ball...lol. So, yes, I know about podunk little Montana schools and communities resisting closing them. I don't advocate closing the schools but I certainly believe we could eliminate one hell of lot of school administrators!

My uncle, when he'd leave Richland to go somewhere like Peerless to visit relatives would inevitably begin talking about what strange people were down in huge towns like Wolf Point...
 
AZGrizFan said:
BozAngelesGriz said:
The economy and the human impacts of the virus are not mutually exclusive. The economic ramifications may be worse (than those of the virus) only because of the direction we took to contain the disease. The “business as usual” route would have likely tipped the scales in the other direction; it’s a choice of people or money. Either way there would be massive fallout. I’m glad that so far we have chosen the ‘people’ option.

Incorrect. It’s a choice of control or freedom. BOTH choices involve “people”.

People who are being devastated. Lives are being ruined. Businesses are failing. Freedoms are being lost. People dying or will die from stress, suicide, murder/suicides, illnesses brought on or exacerbated by the stresses, increased child and spouse abuse, etc., etc., etc.

All for what? A made up pandemic where the original predictions were so bad as to be f###[#] comical if it weren’t destroying the country in the process. What happens the next time a novel virus appears? Because it happens about every 2 years....we gonna shut down the country again? Destroy the economy again? This simply can NOT be the solution. We can’t destroy America to save it.

Totally agree AZ.

Already Montana has seen an increase in suicides the last three weeks. We’ll get more info in the coming weeks but it’s expected that domestic violence including child abuse cases will rise substantially too.

There are so many people just not equipped to deal with this thing, and it primarily relates to money. Obviously those with a lot of it are doing far better than those with none. I’m doing just fine but rest assured, if money was of no concern, and I was social distancing in my mansion with my gym, pool, hot tub, pool table, theater, putting green, etc. etc.......I’d be coping much better!

This will not be good. People are losing their jobs. Owners losing businesses. Some will have the firepower to open back up while many won’t. We have yet to see the worst and I’m not talking about the virus unfortunately.
 
MTCowpoke said:
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
Rest assured I'm aware of the Huawei Cell Towers throughout the state rendering wireless virtually useless as the FCC directive told them to get that Chinese company out of the U.S. and having inexperienced folks such as Rogala represent us on the FCC


talking with the various service providers that don't want to serve rural areas (think Nemont) but it's up to us to make this happen, not discuss the limitations (or are those delimitations?).

When I was a kid, if I didn't get a loan from bank x, I went to bank y. When I looked at business ventures, if a lawyer told me I couldn't do such and such because of community ordinances, I would seek out lawyers who could (and would) assist me in getting a waiver.

A quick glance through the major newspaper's educational sections will quickly reveal Montana has done a much better job implementing online instruction than most huge urban schools, to include the one our former OPI Secretary is superintendent of, Seattle. The tiny little school system I'm in, the superintentent did exactly what Juneau did in Seattle. They wouldn't distribute system technology because some of the students didn't have access to wifi and they felt that would be a FAPE violation...which leads me back to my contention that there are way too many chiefs and not enough Indians running the schools in Montana. We're worse than the feds inhouse fighting amonst FEMA, HHS, the military, etc. as they fail to distribute critical medical supplies and even how to conduct a countrywide lockdown during this pandemic.

Who are you talking to at Nemont to get the belief that they don't want to serve rural areas? While Nemont does a lot of things I don't agree with, one thing they do, and do well, is support the small communities they serve, especially those up here on the Hi-Line. Kilgore has made many questionable decisions, but he has bought into and supports rural Montana. They've been creating Free Wifi hotspots in most towns for those who don't have internet access at home. They've donated chromebooks to three schools so far so that every child has a device they can connect with. If we lose Nemont and others like Three Rivers, Mid-Rivers, etc, who is going to take their place? US West isn't coming back. Both Verizon and AT&T have realized this part of the country doesn't fit their profit models.

My wife is a school councilor and she'll tell you, most of the push back to do distance learning using technology is coming from parents. Some because they don't currently have access (however Nemont is doing what they can to eliminate any hurdles for that at the moment) and others because they don't understand it and can't/won't help their child if it involves a tablet instead of paper. They are demanding hard copy assignments. On top of that, there are classes that simply need hands on learning that can't be accomplished on-line. I can't imagine how a shop teacher is supposed to teach his students anything if he can't have them in a shop to learn how to weld, woodwork, etc.

I do get what you are saying, and there are schools out there that do need to consolidate. Froid and Medicine Lake are two that are stuggling to fill teaching positions and have low numbers already.They are only 12 miles apart. They need to consolidate to eliminate a lot of wasted spending. But to put a blanket statement out that all schools should do the same ignores the fact that there are issues with distance learning. Besides the technology issues, not every student would benefit from such a system. As stated above, how are certain hands on classes going to adjust to a lack of class/lab time? The other thing to realize, while they do cost money, the school is the heart and sole of many of these communities. There is a reason the Class C state tournaments consistently have much higher attendence rates than the Class AA tournaments. In small towns the school is a meeting place and sense of pride for the entire community. How are you going to replace that?

Didn't mean to strike chord with you however I'm in another area of the state that nemont serves and we haven't had the same experience getting service to our families, and yes, most of my teachers want to simply prepare packets for the kids (as several of them do no matter what I suggest anyway).

Yes, I'd love to see a few schools close their doors but coming from a Class C and B background, I know the reality. I struggled years ago with filling critical shortage endorsements and when I mentioned competency based grading to my counselors, they quickly developed a glaze over their eyes and I then had to listen to how "it's not going to happen here." Anyway...

And for what it's worth, I laugh at the "big" AA schools in Montana and would actually love to go back to my roots in a town like Medicine Lake! I remember my senior year in high school when Terry Schlabs won the State C Track and Field Championship by himself over Manhattan. The AA schools? Hell man, can you say Libby, Laurel and Wolf Point? That's why the "big" schools broke up the Big 32!
 
This is a huge number:

"Goldman Sachs now predicts the United States economy will shrink a staggering 34 percent in the second quarter, more than three times the biggest plunge in history.

The investment banking giant has also warned unemployment could hit 15 percent as the country reels from the coronavirus outbreak."

Coronavirus job losses in the United States could hit 47 million, with unemployment at more than 30 per cent, according to stark new estimates by a Federal Reserve."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... arter.html
 
CatGrad-UMGradStu said:
MTCowpoke said:
Who are you talking to at Nemont to get the belief that they don't want to serve rural areas? While Nemont does a lot of things I don't agree with, one thing they do, and do well, is support the small communities they serve, especially those up here on the Hi-Line. Kilgore has made many questionable decisions, but he has bought into and supports rural Montana. They've been creating Free Wifi hotspots in most towns for those who don't have internet access at home. They've donated chromebooks to three schools so far so that every child has a device they can connect with. If we lose Nemont and others like Three Rivers, Mid-Rivers, etc, who is going to take their place? US West isn't coming back. Both Verizon and AT&T have realized this part of the country doesn't fit their profit models.

My wife is a school councilor and she'll tell you, most of the push back to do distance learning using technology is coming from parents. Some because they don't currently have access (however Nemont is doing what they can to eliminate any hurdles for that at the moment) and others because they don't understand it and can't/won't help their child if it involves a tablet instead of paper. They are demanding hard copy assignments. On top of that, there are classes that simply need hands on learning that can't be accomplished on-line. I can't imagine how a shop teacher is supposed to teach his students anything if he can't have them in a shop to learn how to weld, woodwork, etc.

I do get what you are saying, and there are schools out there that do need to consolidate. Froid and Medicine Lake are two that are stuggling to fill teaching positions and have low numbers already.They are only 12 miles apart. They need to consolidate to eliminate a lot of wasted spending. But to put a blanket statement out that all schools should do the same ignores the fact that there are issues with distance learning. Besides the technology issues, not every student would benefit from such a system. As stated above, how are certain hands on classes going to adjust to a lack of class/lab time? The other thing to realize, while they do cost money, the school is the heart and sole of many of these communities. There is a reason the Class C state tournaments consistently have much higher attendence rates than the Class AA tournaments. In small towns the school is a meeting place and sense of pride for the entire community. How are you going to replace that?

Didn't mean to strike chord with you however I'm in another area of the state that nemont serves and we haven't had the same experience getting service to our families, and yes, most of my teachers want to simply prepare packets for the kids (as several of them do no matter what I suggest anyway).

Yes, I'd love to see a few schools close their doors but coming from a Class C and B background, I know the reality. I struggled years ago with filling critical shortage endorsements and when I mentioned competency based grading to my counselors, they quickly developed a glaze over their eyes and I then had to listen to how "it's not going to happen here." Anyway...

And for what it's worth, I laugh at the "big" AA schools in Montana and would actually love to go back to my roots in a town like Medicine Lake! I remember my senior year in high school when Terry Schlabs won the State C Track and Field Championship by himself over Manhattan. The AA schools? Hell man, can you say Libby, Laurel and Wolf Point? That's why the "big" schools broke up the Big 32!

Guess i didn't mean to go on such a diatribe, but a few of your proposals, while maybe credible, are a ways off in some of these areas. And I think we both know Nemont really shouldn't be in the Billings area. And no, they don't support that area like they do up here. I won't ask names, but chances are I've at least heard of your uncle. Growing up in Scobey in the 90's, all of the little towns around us, Peerless, Flaxville-Outlook, Lustre, Opheim, etc., hated us because we were the big town/school in the area. Half of those schools are now gone, and the towns aren't far behind. If Opheim wasn't so far from everywhere, it'd be gone too.
 
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