Transgender?

[wyomingriz]

You nailed it, but of course this is a very polarized subject, and the group holding hands around the opposite pole....well you know.

Well said Griz Fan 24. Look nobody said it was going to be perfectly fair. As it is splitting things into girls and boys does a pretty piss poor job of making things fair, there are plenty of dudes that have athletic genetics closer to girls than they do to top preforming male athletes, but they still have to compete against other guys with 5x the natural size and ability. Boxing and wrestling try to deal with this issue by having weight classes. I suspect as time goes on we will come up with better ways to organize players by their competitive abilities rather than just Boy Girl. But the gas lighting and concern trolling by the people who "care" about women's sports now is getting pretty tired as if we have to pump the brakes on accepting non-traditional gender expression because it may raise some complicated issue with athletics.

What? Nobody said it was gonna be perfectly fair and splitting girls and boys does a piss poor job? So you don’t want to split based on gender but on athletic ability or size? Why are you posting on an athletics site? Sounds like you want to make multiple leagues for men and eliminate women. Lets do tryouts for all genders then place them accordingly haha. This ideology would end girls athletics.

Since you want to make the playing field fair for inferior men then how about inferior women ? Your gas lighting comment is ignorance at its finest. Of course you immediately think that someone who disagrees with you is against transgenders and i can tell you that you are completely wrong. This issue crosses party lines. Your post is might be the most ignorant post i have seen on this site

 

[SoftballMom]

Clean house makes no sense at all. Comparing all competitive sports to boxing and wrestling is ridiculous. Even boxing and wrestling have created women’s divisions and neither of those is a team sport.

Not everyone is born to be an nfl linemen or nba center. So, from your standpoint, if a man isn’t built like his professional male counterparts, then he should compete with women just so he can compete and win? Do you care that a ufc transgender fighter crushed a female competitor’s skull? Anyone supporting that travesty is not thinking logically. And, Why am I only seeing men post on this issue which is a women’s rights issue? As a woman, I am personally effected every time a bio man breaks yet another women’s sports record, earns a trophy, takes a spot on a team, or a position on a podium, or even worse... a scholarship opportunity.. which is what the NCAA has just officially endorsed.

I fully support a persons right to identify and live their truth. This isn’t about that choice or any other aspect of a person’s life choices. This is about fairness and equality in women’s athletics.

 

[CleanHOUSE]

Well said Griz Fan 24. Look nobody said it was going to be perfectly fair. As it is splitting things into girls and boys does a pretty piss poor job of making things fair, there are plenty of dudes that have athletic genetics closer to girls than they do to top preforming male athletes, but they still have to compete against other guys with 5x the natural size and ability. Boxing and wrestling try to deal with this issue by having weight classes. I suspect as time goes on we will come up with better ways to organize players by their competitive abilities rather than just Boy Girl. But the gas lighting and concern trolling by the people who "care" about women's sports now is getting pretty tired as if we have to pump the brakes on accepting non-traditional gender expression because it may raise some complicated issue with athletics.

What? Nobody said it was gonna be perfectly fair and splitting girls and boys does a piss poor job? So you don’t want to split based on gender but on athletic ability or size? Why are you posting on an athletics site? Sounds like you want to make multiple leagues for men and eliminate women. Lets do tryouts for all genders then place them accordingly haha. This ideology would end girls athletics.

Since you want to make the playing field fair for inferior men then how about inferior women ? Your gas lighting comment is ignorance at its finest. Of course you immediately think that someone who disagrees with you is against transgenders and i can tell you that you are completely wrong. This issue crosses party lines. Your post is might be the most ignorant post i have seen on this site

Yes of course firing squad to eliminate Foids sports is what I want. Eliminate FEMOIDS! ...I never advocated for any position, I stated the direction I think things will likely move as we have access to more sophisticated technology and an ability to be more fine-grained than just dividing things by biological sex characteristics, but if you have create something else too argue against then go ahead I guess lol. Also why do you think we separate by Boy and Girl? because they inherently shouldn't play together?? Or because it roughly does the job of sorting by athletic ability.

"Lets do tryouts for all genders then place them accordingly haha. This ideology would end girls athletics." Uhh why would that end women's sports (talking Elementary to Pro) unless you think they are some sort of charity case. If we did sort by athletic ability would the bottom rungs not deserve to have sports opportunities. It is possible to say "look here is a large group of people in a certain skill range, lets create opportunities for them, aka Special Olympics.
Not everything is an "Ideology" lol and why are "party lines" involved in this? Its not a issue that should be influenced by a party affiliation, its just a issue of how to balance athletic opportunities and competitive balance while also considering social concerns related to recognition of someone's identity.
Also I never said make the playing field fair for "inferior men" all I did was point out how the current system already allows for large inequalities in who has to compete against one another,,,and I dont think you understand what gaslighting means. Also I made broad statement about a group of people who certainly do exist, who don't actually give a shit about women's sports yet pretend to...if that's not you then don't take it personally broflake. Its not like you even have to care about Women's sports to have a reasoned opinion, the people who pretend to to cover for other views are just annoying that's all.

 

[GrizLA]

Well said Griz Fan 24. Look nobody said it was going to be perfectly fair. As it is splitting things into girls and boys does a pretty piss poor job of making things fair, there are plenty of dudes that have athletic genetics closer to girls than they do to top preforming male athletes, but they still have to compete against other guys with 5x the natural size and ability. Boxing and wrestling try to deal with this issue by having weight classes. I suspect as time goes on we will come up with better ways to organize players by their competitive abilities rather than just Boy Girl. But the gas lighting and concern trolling by the people who "care" about women's sports now is getting pretty tired as if we have to pump the brakes on accepting non-traditional gender expression because it may raise some complicated issue with athletics.

What? Nobody said it was gonna be perfectly fair and splitting girls and boys does a piss poor job? So you don’t want to split based on gender but on athletic ability or size? Why are you posting on an athletics site? Sounds like you want to make multiple leagues for men and eliminate women. Lets do tryouts for all genders then place them accordingly haha. This ideology would end girls athletics.

Since you want to make the playing field fair for inferior men then how about inferior women ? Your gas lighting comment is ignorance at its finest. Of course you immediately think that someone who disagrees with you is against transgenders and i can tell you that you are completely wrong. This issue crosses party lines. Your post is might be the most ignorant post i have seen on this site

uh, so this is a party line issue? just how many transgendered kids are in Montana and involved in athletics? Hundreds? Thousands? This is a fake issue promoted largely by fringe elements.

 

[Dillon]

What? Nobody said it was gonna be perfectly fair and splitting girls and boys does a piss poor job? So you don’t want to split based on gender but on athletic ability or size? Why are you posting on an athletics site? Sounds like you want to make multiple leagues for men and eliminate women. Lets do tryouts for all genders then place them accordingly haha. This ideology would end girls athletics.

Since you want to make the playing field fair for inferior men then how about inferior women ? Your gas lighting comment is ignorance at its finest. Of course you immediately think that someone who disagrees with you is against transgenders and i can tell you that you are completely wrong. This issue crosses party lines. Your post is might be the most ignorant post i have seen on this site

uh, so this is a party line issue? just how many transgendered kids are in Montana and involved in athletics? Hundreds? Thousands? This is a fake issue promoted largely by fringe elements.

You ever heard of Griz Track and Field?

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

uh, so this is a party line issue? just how many transgendered kids are in Montana and involved in athletics? Hundreds? Thousands? This is a fake issue promoted largely by fringe elements.

You ever heard of Griz Track and Field?

And how many people are you talking? One? Five? Ten? The entire team?

 

[wyomingriz]

It seems that the supporters think it's okay because it isn't very common. How sad is it to make it okay because only a few state titles were stolen from girls in Connecticut, wrestlers in Texas etc. so if I am reading these posts correctly it is okay as long as it only hurts a few girls, Wow!

 

[CopperGold14]

Transgender people playing sports is just a game of political football. Here's my question. ........

 

[Ursa Major]

The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

Great post!!

 

[Ursa Major]

Do you think that if a 6' 9" five star boy prep player decides to change genders, goes to PoDunk University as a womens athlete, averages 50pts and 30rbs a game and leads them to 4 NCAA titles, then goes to the NBA, will that change anything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

:lol: :lol: :clap:

 

[wyomingriz]

Transgender people playing sports is just a game of political football. Here's my question. ........

great post!

 

[Ursa Major]

You ever heard of Griz Track and Field?

And how many people are you talking? One? Five? Ten? The entire team?

I’m sure many of you have seen this but that very question is asked in this article.

[media] https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/jeff-welsch-anti-trans-legislators-went-searching-for-a-problem-and-now-they-ve-got/article_7483d3d1-6780-50b9-afb6-e89597e35dbc.html[/media]

 

[Ursa Major]

Transgender people playing sports is just a game of political football. Here's my question. ........

great post!

Does anyone know Copper’s address? Feels like we should be calling 911.

 

[wyomingriz]

And how many people are you talking? One? Five? Ten? The entire team?

I’m sure many of you have seen this but that very question is asked in this article.

[media] https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/jeff-welsch-anti-trans-legislators-went-searching-for-a-problem-and-now-they-ve-got/article_7483d3d1-6780-50b9-afb6-e89597e35dbc.html[/media]

So you agree with Welsh and many others posting on this site that as long as only a few girls get hurt then it is okay? I don't think i have seen anyone say that it is a prevalent issue like you insinuate they are. It doesn't happen often and i don't believe it will, however your justification is very weak and disappointing. Does it make it okay if you don't know any of these girls that are affected? It doesn't for me....

 

[Ursa Major]

I’m sure many of you have seen this but that very question is asked in this article.

[media] https://406mtsports.com/college/big-sky-conference/montana-state-university/jeff-welsch-anti-trans-legislators-went-searching-for-a-problem-and-now-they-ve-got/article_7483d3d1-6780-50b9-afb6-e89597e35dbc.html[/media]

So you agree with Welsh and many others posting on this site that as long as only a few girls get hurt then it is okay? I don't think i have seen anyone say that it is a prevalent issue like you insinuate they are. It doesn't happen often and i don't believe it will, however your justification is very weak and disappointing. Does it make it okay if you don't know any of these girls that are affected? It doesn't for me....

This is mostly political theatre churned up by the radical right-wing as a wedge issue in the never ending culture wars. If your outraged by it, they’re winning.

As I said in the other thread, taking history into account, this country has always moved toward expanding the rights and liberties of groups. We’re not going to take away women’s suffrage, we’re not going to repeal gay marriage or re-segregate schools. Those who think transgendered rights will be restricted rather than expanded in the future are on the wrong side of history.

 

[wyomingriz]

So you agree with Welsh and many others posting on this site that as long as only a few girls get hurt then it is okay? I don't think i have seen anyone say that it is a prevalent issue like you insinuate they are. It doesn't happen often and i don't believe it will, however your justification is very weak and disappointing. Does it make it okay if you don't know any of these girls that are affected? It doesn't for me....

This is mostly political theatre churned up by the radical right-wing as a wedge issue in the never ending culture wars. If your outraged by it, they’re winning.

As I said in the other thread, taking history into account, this country has always moved toward expanding the rights and liberties of groups. We’re not going to take away women’s suffrage, we’re not going to repeal gay marriage or re-segregate schools. Those who think transgendered rights will be restricted rather than expanded in the future are on the wrong side of history.

So do you think this is good for women? Good job of basically saying nothing

 

[Ursa Major]

This is mostly political theatre churned up by the radical right-wing as a wedge issue in the never ending culture wars. If your outraged by it, they’re winning.

As I said in the other thread, taking history into account, this country has always moved toward expanding the rights and liberties of groups. We’re not going to take away women’s suffrage, we’re not going to repeal gay marriage or re-segregate schools. Those who think transgendered rights will be restricted rather than expanded in the future are on the wrong side of history.

So do you think this is good for women? Good job of basically saying nothing

Since transgender females identify as women, yes I would consider this good for women.

As far as saying nothing, I have given you my political and historical viewpoints. If you’re going to respond back to me, please do it civilly.

I understand it’s a complex societal issue that many are not willing to embrace. Not unlike gay rights over the past decade, I think our society will have a different view of this in 10 years.

 

[wyomingriz]

So do you think this is good for women? Good job of basically saying nothing

Since transgender females identify as women, yes I would consider this good for women.

As far as saying nothing, I have given you my political and historical viewpoints. If you’re going to respond back to me, please do it civilly.

I understand it’s a complex societal issue that many are not willing to embrace. Not unlike gay rights over the past decade, I think our society will have a different view of this in 10 years.

you are right! it is great for transgender women in athletics, very good point

 

[SoftballMom]

So do you think this is good for women? Good job of basically saying nothing

Since transgender females identify as women, yes I would consider this good for women.

As far as saying nothing, I have given you my political and historical viewpoints. If you’re going to respond back to me, please do it civilly.

I understand it’s a complex societal issue that many are not willing to embrace. Not unlike gay rights over the past decade, I think our society will have a different view of this in 10 years.

I don’t identify as a female, I am one... BIG Difference! men are physically bigger, stronger and faster. Their hands are bigger... their feet are bigger.. bone structures are different. They don’t have menstrual cycles or menstrual cramps. They don’t have to learn to use tampons or worry about bleed~throughs during practices or on game days.

Also, men who give an opinion on what it is like to be a woman, or what is good for women’s athletics are ignorant. Don’t tell ME what is good and fair for women’s athletics!

 

[Ursa Major]

Since transgender females identify as women, yes I would consider this good for women.

As far as saying nothing, I have given you my political and historical viewpoints. If you’re going to respond back to me, please do it civilly.

I understand it’s a complex societal issue that many are not willing to embrace. Not unlike gay rights over the past decade, I think our society will have a different view of this in 10 years.

I don’t identify as a female, I am one... BIG Difference! men are physically bigger, stronger and faster. Their hands are bigger... their feet are bigger.. bone structures are different. They don’t have menstrual cycles or menstrual cramps. They don’t have to learn to use tampons or worry about bleed~throughs during practices or on game days.

Also, men who give an opinion on what it is like to be a woman, or what is good for women’s athletics are ignorant. Don’t tell ME what is good and fair for women’s athletics!

Look lady, you have a total of three posts on eGriz. You are probably a fake account started by someone else. If not, you don’t seem to be able to have a conversation, you just want to YELL!

As far as transgendered sports go you have a choice, either accept people for who they are or sip orange juice with Anita Bryant. Either way, it will happen.