Comparing ADs

[grizcountry420]

We're rolling along at 5 losses per year. That is different Montana Football than the dedicated fanbase is familiar with. Franchise erosion becomes a big risk as a lot of money flows from football revenue to other areas of the University. Not to mention the impact on the community of Missoula. So it is pretty damn important.

well said, Kem..

 

[PlayerRep]

Anyone know when the GPA's of UM athletes went over 3.0 and stayed there? Think it was 2005. Think I'm right on this. I make this comment because good GPA's for athletes wasn't just invented at UM in the last year or two.

Good comments, Kem.

 

[kemajic]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home. And, of course, the even larger problem is that UM is stuck with all of the Dennison legacy buildings that become unnecessary overhead to support. The campus is grossly overbuilt for the projected enrollments. Haslam has weathered storms that previous ADs never had to deal with. The new President will have to walk on water to get this institution to a positive vector and I'm convinced it will take a different pathway to do it. He/she will need Kent Haslam badly.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home. And, of course, the even larger problem is that UM is stuck with all of the Dennison legacy buildings that become unnecessary overhead to support. The campus is grossly overbuilt for the projected enrollments. Haslam has weathered storms that previous ADs never had to deal with. The new President will have to walk on water to get this institution to a positive vector and I'm convinced it will take a different pathway to do it. He/she will need Kent Haslam badly.

Couldn't help myself.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

More insight into the kibitzing at the water cooler.

 

[Griz til I die]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home. And, of course, the even larger problem is that UM is stuck with all of the Dennison legacy buildings that become unnecessary overhead to support. The campus is grossly overbuilt for the projected enrollments. Haslam has weathered storms that previous ADs never had to deal with. The new President will have to walk on water to get this institution to a positive vector and I'm convinced it will take a different pathway to do it. He/she will need Kent Haslam badly.

It's definitely not gonna get that low. The Board of Regents would never let it get that low otherwise they'd have a big problem on their hands. I'm confident our enrollment will start going up within the next two years.

 

[UMGriz75]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home

It's definitely not gonna get that low. The Board of Regents would never let it get that low otherwise they'd have a big problem on their hands. I'm confident our enrollment will start going up within the next two years.

Well, here's the first problem. They don't know what the problem is. They are going to be hiring someone to "fix it," but they have done no study as to what "needs to be fixed." It is safe to say that this BOR, complicit in the problem at the outset, does not understand the problem. It begs the question as to how they might propose to "fix it." Fix what? Replacing Engstrom may have been sufficient at one point, but now that the death spiral has set in, what specifically is necessary in a new leader for this particular set of problems?

 

[The_Real_Chief]

O'day Rules and Haslam Sucks! Everything is better in the past than the present!

 

[EverettGriz]

O'day Rules and Haslam Sucks! Everything is better in the past than the present!

And black and white beats 4k EVERY time!

 

[Griz til I die]

Campus coffee conversations are wargaming a University of Montana with fewer than 7,000 students in four years time.

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home

It's definitely not gonna get that low. The Board of Regents would never let it get that low otherwise they'd have a big problem on their hands. I'm confident our enrollment will start going up within the next two years.

Well, here's the first problem. They don't know what the problem is. They are going to be hiring someone to "fix it," but they have done no study as to what "needs to be fixed." It is safe to say that this BOR, complicit in the problem at the outset, does not understand the problem. It begs the question as to how they might propose to "fix it." Fix what? Replacing Engstrom may have been sufficient at one point, but now that the death spiral has set in, what specifically is necessary in a new leader for this particular set of problems?

75, I'm not saying your wrong about all of this, but I do have one question. How confident are you that our enrollment is gonna drop again next year? You don't think there's any chance our enrollments gonna go up next year?

 

[UMGriz75]

75, I'm not saying your wrong about all of this, but I do have one question. How confident are you that our enrollment is gonna drop again next year? You don't think there's any chance our enrollments gonna go up next year?

"Death spirals" tend to be synergistic. Like businesses, people respond to "news." That's how stock markets collapse. Students and parents are not likely to see the headlines "UM Must Cut 500 Faculty and Staff" and think, "gee I really, really want to send my kid there next year!" This is one reason it is so important to respond quickly to signs of failure within an organization if those signs of failure point to leadership in any way. Let it go on, and it becomes a "culture." Keep protecting it, and it becomes a "death spiral."

When Tom Crady, UM's VP of Enrollment, arrived on campus a few months ago, he was pretty optimistic. That was before the freshman enrollment collapse was known. That shocked the hell out of everybody. No major public US university has ever lost 17% of incoming freshmen enrollment for no apparent reason in just one registration cycle. How does he overcome that kind of news? Well, trying to keep it a secret is one way, and they've done a pretty good job of keeping the lid on that, but the fact is, that's part of the problem: we've spent seven years fluffing and padding the bad news with "it'll get better next year."

Somewhere along the line we turned into a University, academic and sports, where everything will be solved by "waiting until next year."

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

75, I'm not saying your wrong about all of this, but I do have one question. How confident are you that our enrollment is gonna drop again next year? You don't think there's any chance our enrollments gonna go up next year?

"Death spirals" tend to be synergistic. Like businesses, people respond to "news." That's how stock markets collapse. Students and parents are not likely to see the headlines "UM Must Cut 500 Faculty and Staff" and think, "gee I really, really want to send my kid there next year!" This is one reason it is so important to respond quickly to signs of failure within an organization if those signs of failure point to leadership in any way. Let it go on, and it becomes a "culture." Keep protecting it, and it becomes a "death spiral."

When Tom Crady, UM's VP of Enrollment, arrived on campus a few months ago, he was pretty optimistic. That was before the freshman enrollment collapse was known. That shocked the hell out of everybody. No major public US university has ever lost 17% of incoming freshmen enrollment for no apparent reason in just one registration cycle. How does he overcome that kind of news? Well, trying to keep it a secret is one way, and they've done a pretty good job of keeping the lid on that, but the fact is, that's part of the problem: we've spent seven years fluffing and padding the bad news with "it'll get better next year."

Somewhere along the line we turned into a University, academic and sports, where everything will be solved by "waiting until next year."

I agree with you that Royce was here waaaay to long...

But dont you find any correlation to having a book come out with main hall and the title MISSOULA and RAPE in huge letters right on the cover?

That had to have a pretty freaking huge affect on enrollment.

 

[UMGriz75]

I agree with you that Royce was here waaaay to long...

But dont you find any correlation to having a book come out with main hall and the title MISSOULA and RAPE in huge letters right on the cover?

That had to have a pretty freaking huge affect on enrollment.

I've written about my feelings on that. How Engstrom handled the entire matter, from the trumpeted outside study, to the Saudi student, to the press conferences, to the firings, to the suspension of JJ, to the Kangaroo Court proceedings, Engstrom blew this up as much as he could. He could not have done more to draw attention to a fabricated crisis. The firings were headlines he knew he would generate, and bring more publicity to UM and to himself than anything else he might do at the time. That was the first indicator of leadership failure. He was trying to distinguish himself from Dennison, assert his "PC" credentials, and he ended up nearly taking down the whole university.

It may well be true that the 17% freshman enrollment drop, Fall, 2016, is at least partially the result of the publication of the book, but most of the book publicity was made in the Spring of 2015. And Fall, 2015 enrollment drop was minor compared to the enrollment, Fall, 2014. On the other hand, this is also how "death spirals" operate, and why they are so important to avoid.

 

[AZGrizFan]

How Engstrom handled the entire matter, from the trumpeted outside study, to the Saudi student, to the press conferences, to the firings, to the suspension of JJ, to the Kangaroo Court proceedings, Engstrom blew this up as much as he could. He could not have done more to draw attention to a fabricated crisis. The firings were headlines he knew he would generate, and bring more publicity to UM and to himself than anything else he might do at the time. That was the first indicator of leadership failure. He was trying to distinguish himself from Dennison, assert his "PC" credentials, and he ended up nearly taking down the whole university.

It may well be true that the 17% freshman enrollment drop, Fall, 2016, is at least partially the result of the publication of the book, but most of the book publicity was made in the Spring of 2015. And Fall, 2015 enrollment drop was minor compared to the enrollment, Fall, 2014. On the other hand, this is also how "death spirals" operate, and why they are so important to avoid.

Plus, he had a complicit and willing local newspaper reporter & editors to help him in his apparent cause.

 

[Griz til I die]

75, I'm not saying your wrong about all of this, but I do have one question. How confident are you that our enrollment is gonna drop again next year? You don't think there's any chance our enrollments gonna go up next year?

"Death spirals" tend to be synergistic. Like businesses, people respond to "news." That's how stock markets collapse. Students and parents are not likely to see the headlines "UM Must Cut 500 Faculty and Staff" and think, "gee I really, really want to send my kid there next year!" This is one reason it is so important to respond quickly to signs of failure within an organization if those signs of failure point to leadership in any way. Let it go on, and it becomes a "culture." Keep protecting it, and it becomes a "death spiral."

When Tom Crady, UM's VP of Enrollment, arrived on campus a few months ago, he was pretty optimistic. That was before the freshman enrollment collapse was known. That shocked the hell out of everybody. No major public US university has ever lost 17% of incoming freshmen enrollment for no apparent reason in just one registration cycle. How does he overcome that kind of news? Well, trying to keep it a secret is one way, and they've done a pretty good job of keeping the lid on that, but the fact is, that's part of the problem: we've spent seven years fluffing and padding the bad news with "it'll get better next year."

Somewhere along the line we turned into a University, academic and sports, where everything will be solved by "waiting until next year."

So you think it's gonna drop again next year? Is that what your pretty much saying?

 

[UMGriz75]

So you think it's gonna drop again next year? Is that what your pretty much saying?

As with the football team, I try to look to tangible current indicators that indicate probable change, and that includes being able to identify an ability to change. I don't see it for the football program, and I began saying that in October, 2015. The 2016 season simply confirmed my perspective. But, I had reasons to have that perspective. Nothing that happened indicated to me that my perspective was wrong. Betters like to bet, and gamblers like to gamble, but at this point, in my view, we are betting against the odds, and that is to the detriment of the athletes and the University as a whole. Others differ, including those who were so wrong about this past year. So, whose track record are you gonna believe?

When Tom Crady came on board, I had the impression that he got it and, with enough resources, understood the base problems well enough to turn it around. For starters, that MSU began outspending UM on recruiting, 2-1, then 3-1, then 4-1, and Engstrom never "got" that. It is inexplicable to me why that was.

But, the 17% frosh drop was so big, so unexpected, and so unprecedented, it's no longer just a matter of matching MSU dollar for dollar on recruitment, which probably would have solved the problem if initiated even five years ago. Something else seems to be at play, now, and in the business world it is, in fact, the well-known phenomenon of "death spirals." The bad news becomes "the" news, and perpetuates itself.

The trend is firmly in place, and something "big" is going to have to change that trend. We may have a new president in place by August 1, if not, he or she is not going to have much time to come up to speed and do anything "big." And if not, the trend will continue, and the only question is, how much this time?

It's going to be challenge not just for the new President, and the AD, but every dean on campus as well. Nobody was left with good choices here.

 

[signedbewildered]

Enrollment was 6,000 when I was there in the 60's, so that really hits home

It's definitely not gonna get that low. The Board of Regents would never let it get that low otherwise they'd have a big problem on their hands. I'm confident our enrollment will start going up within the next two years.

Well, here's the first problem. They don't know what the problem is. They are going to be hiring someone to "fix it," but they have done no study as to what "needs to be fixed." It is safe to say that this BOR, complicit in the problem at the outset, does not understand the problem. It begs the question as to how they might propose to "fix it." Fix what? Replacing Engstrom may have been sufficient at one point, but now that the death spiral has set in, what specifically is necessary in a new leader for this particular set of problems?

75, I'm not saying your wrong about all of this, but I do have one question. How confident are you that our enrollment is gonna drop again next year? You don't think there's any chance our enrollments gonna go up next year?

You will likely get a lengthy reply lacking an answer to your question. It happens.

 

[UMGriz75]

You will likely get a lengthy reply lacking an answer to your question. It happens.

So you think it's gonna drop again next year? Is that what your pretty much saying?

The trend is firmly in place, and something "big" is going to have to change that trend.

For those confused or "bewildered," it may just be a comprehension problem. For those thinking there was no "answer," the problem may well have been they simply did not understand it.

 

[argh!]

So you think it's gonna drop again next year? Is that what your pretty much saying?

As with the football team, I try to look to tangible current indicators that indicate probable change, and that includes being able to identify an ability to change. I don't see it for the football program, and I began saying that in October, 2015. The 2016 season simply confirmed my perspective. But, I had reasons to have that perspective. Nothing that happened indicated to me that my perspective was wrong. Betters like to bet, and gamblers like to gamble, but at this point, in my view, we are betting against the odds, and that is to the detriment of the athletes and the University as a whole. Others differ, including those who were so wrong about this past year. So, whose track record are you gonna believe?

When Tom Crady came on board, I had the impression that he got it and, with enough resources, understood the base problems well enough to turn it around. For starters, that MSU began outspending UM on recruiting, 2-1, then 3-1, then 4-1, and Engstrom never "got" that. It is inexplicable to me why that was.

But, the 17% frosh drop was so big, so unexpected, and so unprecedented, it's no longer just a matter of matching MSU dollar for dollar on recruitment, which probably would have solved the problem if initiated even five years ago. Something else seems to be at play, now, and in the business world it is, in fact, the well-known phenomenon of "death spirals." The bad news becomes "the" news, and perpetuates itself.

The trend is firmly in place, and something "big" is going to have to change that trend. We may have a new president in place by August 1, if not, he or she is not going to have much time to come up to speed and do anything "big." And if not, the trend will continue, and the only question is, how much this time?

It's going to be challenge not just for the new President, and the AD, but every dean on campus as well. Nobody was left with good choices here.

75 is the egriz version of sebastian gorka and stephen miller's luv child.

 

[Fat Bruno]

75 is the egriz version of sebastian gorka and stephen miller's luv child.

I’m not seeing the analogy. Those guys can’t form a sentence; 75 can form the shit out of them. And, speaking of falling enrollment, this place now has about two posts for the day. That must be a new low and part of a disquieting trend …sadly, a death spiral seems to be at hand. A fan site cannot prosper and grow without one, essential element, namely it’s most insane members. These smaller than life, large of mouth souls will herein go unnamed, but we’re all aware of several entities who have in the past tended to swell the great flow of bilge which nourishes the shores of this benighted isle. The management must contrive to reinstate these stimulating souls or go down in this little backwater of history as the Engstroms of fan sites.