Main Hall Prospect

[PlayerRep]

I don't like the notion that different departments, schools, etc. should be seen as mere "profit centers," like in business. Humans are not robots, to be trained in only one occupation, at least at the college/university level. It's ok for community and technical colleges, but not research universities. Our businesses, yes, need technicians, etc., and students who desire that narrow focus of their lives are welcome to it. But, business needs people who can rise above that narrow focus, and only a broad liberal arts education provides that.

You can hire a technician for his/her particular duty, but that technician can take a long time to become a leader of the business. OTOH, the liberal arts person can discern, perhaps not the details of the technician's job, but generally know what the tech's position does & how it fits into the overall organizational structure, and the broader view of the business's place in the commercial enterprise.

This drive for universities as businesses is due only to citizens being too cheap to fund these schools, to the extent that we distort the missions of these institutions to "be profit centers," rather than the broader mission of providing graduates with the vision to not just work for a company, but to lead it.

Only someone with an academic background can appreciate the broader, historical mission of higher ed., someone who sees more value in his/her school than producing technicians.

I agree that departments should not be viewed as profit centers, nor should schools. However, it is critically important that schools be run in a manner allows them to stay within budgets and their means. This requires business plans, the ability to read and understand financial statements and information, and to create meaningful metrics to follow and evaluate progress. It is critically important for UM to reverse the enrollment decline, start to grow enrollment, know what they can do and expect with tuition, and know what they expect from state funding. Otherwise, UM is going to continue to fade, and eventually not be close to the school it once was.

It is also critically important for UM to have a very good leader now. More important than ever. This leader must also have strong skills that many business leaders have. This is more important than ever for UM.

A strong leader with good financial skills is hardly a technician. Sorry, Grizzoola, but that discussion of yours is just plain dumb and, assuming that you are or were in academia, is just plain dumb. Also, your last paragraph is completely wrong. Many people outside of academia can understand and appreciate those things.

Your views show why many people believe that a lot of people from academia would not be a good leader for UM. I assume Engstrom had the things you stated in that paragraph, but he was an awful leader, didn't know how to create a business plan, couldn't execute, made lots of bad decisions, and has seriously wounded UM.

 

[tnt]

But the one thing RE did understand and was successful with was attracting research and the dollars associated. Critical for a "flagship" institution and actually equal in mission to academics. Not sayin an outsider doesn't understand this just that they should............ I didn't hear much from any of the finalists in this area at all.

 

[PlayerRep]

But the one thing RE did understand and was successful with was attracting research and the dollars associated. Critical for a "flagship" institution and actually equal in mission to academics. Not sayin an outsider doesn't understand this just that they should............ I didn't hear much from any of the finalists in this area at all.

Yes, good point, and agree that a lot came in under RE. While I don't think someone from academia is necessary to do this, it is obviously very important and it must be continued. I assume some of these dollars come from DOJ. Maybe someone like Bodnar would be able to help UM and its profs tap into some of that.

 

[kemajic]

I don't like the notion that different departments, schools, etc. should be seen as mere "profit centers," like in business. Humans are not robots, to be trained in only one occupation, at least at the college/university level. It's ok for community and technical colleges, but not research universities. Our businesses, yes, need technicians, etc., and students who desire that narrow focus of their lives are welcome to it. But, business needs people who can rise above that narrow focus, and only a broad liberal arts education provides that.

You can hire a technician for his/her particular duty, but that technician can take a long time to become a leader of the business. OTOH, the liberal arts person can discern, perhaps not the details of the technician's job, but generally know what the tech's position does & how it fits into the overall organizational structure, and the broader view of the business's place in the commercial enterprise.

This drive for universities as businesses is due only to citizens being too cheap to fund these schools, to the extent that we distort the missions of these institutions to "be profit centers," rather than the broader mission of providing graduates with the vision to not just work for a company, but to lead it.

Only someone with an academic background can appreciate the broader, historical mission of higher ed., someone who sees more value in his/her school than producing technicians.

I agree that departments should not be viewed as profit centers, nor should schools. However, it is critically important that schools be run in a manner allows them to stay within budgets and their means. This requires business plans, the ability to read and understand financial statements and information, and to create meaningful metrics to follow and evaluate progress. It is critically important for UM to reverse the enrollment decline, start to grow enrollment, know what they can do and expect with tuition, and know what they expect from state funding. Otherwise, UM is going to continue to fade, and eventually not be close to the school it once was.

It is also critically important for UM to have a very good leader now. More important than ever. This leader must also have strong skills that many business leaders have. This is more important than ever for UM.

A strong leader with good financial skills is hardly a technician. Sorry, Grizzoola, but that discussion of yours is just plain dumb and, assuming that you are or were in academia, is just plain dumb. Also, your last paragraph is completely wrong. Many people outside of academia can understand and appreciate those things.

Your views show why many people believe that a lot of people from academia would not be a good leader for UM. I assume Engstrom had the things you stated in that paragraph, but he was an awful leader, didn't know how to create a business plan, couldn't execute, made lots of bad decisions, and has seriously wounded UM.

Well said. Grizzoola is as out of touch with reality as most of the academic swamp.

 

[Grizzoola]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

It shouldn't be an academia vs business argument. A good college president should be highly proficient in both. That is what makes it a difficult job and why they are the highest paid state employee.

 

[garizzalies]

It shouldn't be an academia vs business argument. A good college president should be highly proficient in both. That is what makes it a difficult job and why they are the highest paid state employee.

Last I checked, our highest paid state employee was a doc out at warm springs.

 

[Ursa Major]

The upside of the military choice would be the likelihood of lucrative military research contracts coming to the U. Perhaps even anti-satellite laser testing. We could finally do away with msu's faggy little satellite.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

The debate over academic vs outsider is only one facet of the problem. There are other problems in Main Hall that need to be addressed. Thankfully some of the problems are moving on to jobs at other institutions. Its been brought up before and needs to be pointed out again, the lack of student recruitment at the U of M is bullshit. I have a teenager at Big Sky, every Saturday I clear the coffee table of the weekly accumulation of mailings from colleges across the country. My kid is math smart, its scary smart level, he sure didnt get that from me. He's taken advanced placement math, IB math courses, even UM classes and been to math camps. This week he froze my blood when he asked if he could take a tour of bozangeles campus. I chose my words very carefully and asked about what programs were interesting.
So here's whats grinding my chops. There are 15 to 20 pieces of mail on the coffee table today, just from this week alone, colleges from across the country, 3 are from msu and not a single one from the U of M. This is not a unique experience. Friends of mine with teenagers about to graduate from Libby to Hungry Horse to Billings all say their kids have the same experience.
Its not only Main Hall thats failing at student recruitment, I've talked to profs who seem to think student recruitment isnt their job. When I was a freshman in 1979 students came to the U of M because of profs like Ault, Jonkle and Bolle, or the J School or the Creative Writing program and the profs actively encouraged Montana kids to attend the U. I dont really care if the next president is an academic or not, I want him or her to recruit the best and brightest kids from Montana.
End of Rant. time for coffee, oh and #FTE

 

['68griz]

UM's lack of recruiting is nothing new. My daughter graduated from Sentinel here in Missoula 19 years ago. She was nearly a 4.00 student, an athlete, a first-chair band member, etc. She was recruited by nearly 200 schools across the country. UM was NOT one of them; truly, she never received one piece of paper from the university in her home town!!!!!

 

[Grizzoola]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

 

[tnt]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

I don't think that is an issue. While she may be good for MSU which is a stem university (basically a step above a technical college,) she would not be good for U of M. There is a subtle but none the less significant difference between what the two schools do (or are supposed to do.) , typically a state's flagship is its land-grant institution. It is likely to be the university with the highest research profile and the most doctoral programs. Undergraduate programs take a back seat to research to post graduate programs and research.

 

[wbtfg]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

I don't think that is an issue. While she may be good for MSU which is a stem university (basically a step above a technical college,) she would not be good for U of M. There is a subtle but none the less significant difference between what the two schools do (or are supposed to do.) , typically a state's flagship is its land-grant institution. It is likely to be the university with the highest research profile and the most doctoral programs. Undergraduate programs take a back seat to research to post graduate programs and research.

MSU is the State's Land Grant University.

STEM University would be Montana Tech.


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[CFallsGriz]

The upside of the military choice would be the likelihood of lucrative military research contracts coming to the U. Perhaps even anti-satellite laser testing. We could finally do away with msu's faggy little satellite.

:lol: :clap:

 

[PlayerRep]

Bodnar was truly terrific in the public Q&A yesterday. Had an impressive opening presentation. Very articulate. Spoke well. Answered questions well. He is very smart. Came across as a very nice and humble.

Said UM should be the premier flagship university in the West.

"Said the thread in his career has been driving teams to their highest potential, whether at GE or in the military or technology business. "I'm in the people development business," Bodnar said. "My passion, my purpose, my energy in life has come from working to develop teams and helping people reach their full potential."

http://missoulian.com/news/local/seth-bodnar-university-of-montana-should-be-premier-flagship-in/article_3c990c4e-d0b6-5a93-be4f-a78568ddc8ab.html

He is head and shoulders above the other candidates. UM would be crazy to not hire him.

 

[tnt]

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

I don't think that is an issue. While she may be good for MSU which is a stem university (basically a step above a technical college,) she would not be good for U of M. There is a subtle but none the less significant difference between what the two schools do (or are supposed to do.) , typically a state's flagship is its land-grant institution. It is likely to be the university with the highest research profile and the most doctoral programs. Undergraduate programs take a back seat to research to post graduate programs and research.

MSU is the State's Land Grant University.

STEM University would be Montana Tech.


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Not quite MSU used it's morell funding to become an agricultural engeering college it in fact was not a university until 1965. U of M until then was the only state university and was known as MSU. The name change designated UM as the flagship. It had already established itself as a premier research facility going back to 1934. Don't confuse STEM with a technical college there is a huge difference.

 

[wbtfg]

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

I don't think that is an issue. While she may be good for MSU which is a stem university (basically a step above a technical college,) she would not be good for U of M. There is a subtle but none the less significant difference between what the two schools do (or are supposed to do.) , typically a state's flagship is its land-grant institution. It is likely to be the university with the highest research profile and the most doctoral programs. Undergraduate programs take a back seat to research to post graduate programs and research.

MSU is the State's Land Grant University.

STEM University would be Montana Tech.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not quite MSU used it's morell funding to become an agricultural engeering college it in fact was not a university until 1965. U of M until then was the only state university and was known as MSU. The name change designated UM as the flagship. It had already established itself as a premier research facility going back to 1934. Don't confuse STEM with a technical college there is a huge difference.

MSU is the only land grant university in the state of Montana.

We can wager if you'd like.


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[tnt]

Didn't say it wasn't, but it's history is a bit different. It's establishment as such was political " deal" the final deal was brokered a rancher named Nelson Story who donated land in Helena for the state capital under the condition Bozeman drop their quest to be the state capital and Bozeman would be the land grant college. The stat ag scool had already opened in a classroom in the highschool with about 5 students. In any event I wouldn't bet to much the original moril Grant was split up UM has about 16000 acres tech has more. There was a bit of a pissing contest over the allotments back in 2015. RE made a bit of a stink, but of course rolled over. http://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-receives-k-in-land-grant-revenue-msu-claims-m/article_bbbb13da-b187-5648-a641-4a7a5bf33293.html

 

[SoldierGriz]

Wadad Cruzado is an academic. Case closed.

The fact that msu is your benchmark is problematic...think bigger and better zoola. The university needs a breakout leader...perhaps from academia, perhaps not.

I think everyone has credited Cruzado as being one damned good univ. pres., and if only UM could get a person like that. Don't let the fact that she's at MSU mess up your thinking.

And don't let the president of the state university in the state of Montana mess yours up...hate to break it to ya....not exactly the cream of the crop. It's just not. msu should not be the benchmark for the Griz...in anything. Again, you think small.