Montana High School Players

[HelenaHandBasket]

You asked so here goes.. I think it's more about socio-economic reasons. Yes CTE may contribute, but the main reason I believe is simple. Jobs, or the lack of them. Especially in smaller town MT. You only have to look at towns like Anaconda and Libby to see what has happened . Libby was at one time AA. Now they are down to B. So now you don't have the working class families any more. Instead you have a lot of low income families. A lot of these kids are in split households and they just don't have the resources or support to succeed. These kids struggle in the classroom as well so quite often aren't eligible to play. On a larger scale look at the Midwest. Once the auto industry abandoned the Midwest the big 10 began to suffer. Conversely it coincided with the dominance of the SEC. Foreign auto makers opened plants in the south and working class families flourished. Add in this generation's lack of interest in "traditional" things and there you go.

Both Libby and Anaconda were AA up to at least the late 70's.....
Industry and Environmentalist shut both down....the towns died off, lots of people moved out the schools took the big hit....

1985-86 was there last year as an AA school.

 

[Atlanta Griz1]

many high school players who went to msu and um in the 80's and 90's wouldn't sniff the field today. whether you old folks like to admit it or not, football has evolved a lot over the years and guys are just bigger, faster and stronger. montana kids aren't suddenly getting worse. teams are just getting better and can't bring in the "athletes" they did 20 years ago.

obviously there are exceptions to this rule...

your post makes no sense...... is it the MSU education? :thumb:

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

many high school players who went to msu and um in the 80's and 90's wouldn't sniff the field today. whether you old folks like to admit it or not, football has evolved a lot over the years and guys are just bigger, faster and stronger. montana kids aren't suddenly getting worse. teams are just getting better and can't bring in the "athletes" they did 20 years ago.

obviously there are exceptions to this rule...

I agree that football has evolved and athletes are getting bigger/faster/stronger, but I'm not sure where you are going with the rest of your post. There has never been more Montana athletes in the NFL than there is right now.

Might give this post another try after you've sobered up or learn how to write a sentence.

 

[Sundown]

Missoula should really go back to 2 high schools, but it will never happen.

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Missoula should really go back to 2 high schools, but it will never happen.

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

If the Hellgate district does build a high school, then there is absolutely no reason to have 3 public high schools in Missoula.

 

[Sundown]

Missoula should really go back to 2 high schools, but it will never happen.

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

If the Hellgate district does build a high school, then there is absolutely no reason to have 3 public high schools in Missoula.

No, there is plenty of reason. Hellgate district covers everything in and around north reserve, from pleasant view to grant creek, airway Blvd., the wye, nagos and all the way back out to grass valley. That's a ton of growth in the last ten years with more every year. As of now, most of those high school aged kids have to travel all the way out to target range to attend Big Sky.

 

[grizpack]

Missoula should really go back to 2 high schools, but it will never happen.

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

If the Hellgate district does build a high school, then there is absolutely no reason to have 3 public high schools in Missoula.

No, there is plenty of reason. Hellgate district covers everything in and around north reserve, from pleasant view to grant creek, airway Blvd., the wye, nagos and all the way back out to grass valley. That's a ton of growth in the last ten years with more every year. As of now, most of those high school aged kids have to travel all the way out to target range to attend Big Sky.

You are kidding, right???

"All the way out to Target Range"???? That is a whole 5 or 6 miles!!!! Outrageous!!!

 

[Paytonlives]

Target range to Walmart on Mullen road is 4.6 miles...

 

[grizpack]

Target range to Walmart on Mullen road is 4.6 miles...

My bad. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Wonder how some of the kids at small schools that have to travel 20-30+ miles each way do it????

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Missoula should really go back to 2 high schools, but it will never happen.

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

If the Hellgate district does build a high school, then there is absolutely no reason to have 3 public high schools in Missoula.

No, there is plenty of reason. Hellgate district covers everything in and around north reserve, from pleasant view to grant creek, airway Blvd., the wye, nagos and all the way back out to grass valley. That's a ton of growth in the last ten years with more every year. As of now, most of those high school aged kids have to travel all the way out to target range to attend Big Sky.

The point is, Missoula County Public high school enrollment will take a big hit if Hellgate does build a high school. With that shift, there would be a valid argument that 3 high schools are too many for Missoula. All that does is shift enrollment, not create additional.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Why do you think Missoula County Public Schools are so vehemently opposed to the Hellgate district proposal?

 

[astutegriz]

Quick search on the Internet shows studies indicate 600-900 kids in a high school are ideal for learning. Shouldn't that be our goal then? For athletics, it would help stress multi sport participation and less kids getting cut. Both help the althlete. An athlete that plays multiple sports growing up do better, even in the one they would otherwise have specialized in. Especially football.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Do you think that high school football participation across the state is down from previous decades?

Ya think?

soccer. Now lacrosse. Killing football.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Football success is obviously correlated to school size but also to athlete retention. Butte high seems to slough off the number of football players participating between freshman and senior years. As a parent it is a bit disheartening to see a Billings West or Bozeman with some 100 kids on the sidelines where Butte may have 60 or so. nonetheless the kids in the Butte program play hard and have fun competing and have crazy fan support. I'm not sure why that attitude isn't seen at Missoula schools which seem to sort of suffer football. Butte is slightly larger than the Missoula schools but smaller than the rest of AA. But school size isn't the whole story. Butte Central (178 kids last time I looked) kicks Belgrade (800 or so) on a regular basis.

 

[tgreseth]

Interesting (and short) article on declines in sports participation across football, basketball, and baseball. Football isn't even experiencing the largest decline among those!

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...ball-but-mark-cuban-might-be-wrong-about-why/

Excellent related article here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook...ing-the-answer-isnt-concussions/#6beccec27056

You're welcome!

 

[Sam A. Blitz]

Bingo.....

The other problem is that Missoula has open enrollment. So kids can "Pick" what school they want to go to.

I understand why you are saying this and I've heard this from smart people, but I respectfully disagree. If we concentrate on the institute of Missoula football beating other AA teams, sure. But is this best for the kids? For academics? Both my kids transferred for personal reasons. It was great for them as students and personal growth. They thrived. It didn't hurt the schools one iota. I cringe at the thought of taking this away from the kids simply so "our" teams can beat "their" teams.

Another way to think about it, if we combined into two, then Helena should combine into one to be more competitive, then Billings into two to answer, then us into one, then Billings into one, then all Missoula County schools into one, and so on. An absurd example, but trying to make a point. Size of schools and open enrollment should be looked at from the point of view of what is best for the kid and not the institute of sports being a winner. It would be nice to have schools big enough to provide a variety of academic opportunities, and small enough for athletic opportunities of being able to play a sport but not have to specialize or be a star.

I know I'm in the minority. Just my opinion.

My opinion that Missoula should consolidate from 3 to 2 high schools is definitely not based solely on athletics. As a matter of fact is has very little to do with athletics, but it couldn't hurt with the football situation currently at Hellgate.

What is your opinion based on? Not trying to be snarky, just curious about your arguments on what benefits would come from the consolidation.

 

[Sundown]

In fact, look for a 4th public high school in the next decade or so. Hellgate district wants their own.

If the Hellgate district does build a high school, then there is absolutely no reason to have 3 public high schools in Missoula.

No, there is plenty of reason. Hellgate district covers everything in and around north reserve, from pleasant view to grant creek, airway Blvd., the wye, nagos and all the way back out to grass valley. That's a ton of growth in the last ten years with more every year. As of now, most of those high school aged kids have to travel all the way out to target range to attend Big Sky.

The point is, Missoula County Public high school enrollment will take a big hit if Hellgate does build a high school. With that shift, there would be a valid argument that 3 high schools are too many for Missoula. All that does is shift enrollment, not create additional.

Oh, I totally see your point, but Hellgate's emphasis is that their middle school is bursting at the seams and there is plenty of population growth to anticipate for. That justifies expansion of the district, including a new high school for that area.

 

[Sundown]

Why do you think Missoula County Public Schools are so vehemently opposed to the Hellgate district proposal?

It would reallocate state and federal funding away from the existing districts.

 

[Sundown]

Target range to Walmart on Mullen road is 4.6 miles...

My bad. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Wonder how some of the kids at small schools that have to travel 20-30+ miles each way do it????

They aren't trying to navigate a metro area with a serious traffic problem like Missoula has on Reserve. I mean; have you been on Reserve between Broadway and South during the morning, lunch or evening rush-hour lately? It's bad now, let alone when school is back in session when tons of vehicles are using Reserve for the sole purpose of getting kids from the north and western outliers to Big Sky and back again.

 

[grizfan47]

To excel at sports now days you have to play it all year long. Lift weights in the off season and attend lots of camps. As mentioned in other posts, some families simply can't afford that kind of commitment. Small town farm and ranch kids have to help out at home and can't commit to all the camps. Small town BB players have to play tournaments during the summer to be able to compete in the winter. Again, some don't have the resources.

Successful FB programs have a youth, Jr High and sub-varsity programs in place. Those that don't will struggle. Great Falls High is prime example of a once power house that has struggled. To my understanding they have not run their Jr Highs like GFHS farm teams like the old days. If I am wrong GFHS alum, please correct me. In the 60s and 70s Jr High football and BB were a big deal especially when the 9th grade was Jr High. Their coaches were top notch and chose to be there instead of coaching high school. I think that is going to change for GFHS in the near future.

Kids today have so many more distractions. Playing sports is not a big deal and it certainly requires more commitment then it did 20 years ago. On the bright side, those that do work at it and are committed are much better than the athletes of twenty years ago.