um programs being cut

[alabamagrizzly]

Good heavens. You can 'hate' Title IX, but this has been a financial reality for forty years now. All sports minus football, regardless of gender are money suckers. Some work at a near break even margin (men and womens basketball) but most cost more than what they produce. But I don't care. Complain about the mechanism to calculate participation, fine, but the law isn't going anywhere. Athletic departments have known about those issues for decades now.

The issue is the declining desire by states to subsidize athletic departments. This is true at the high school level as well. Right or wrong, financing athletic departments is becoming more and more privatized or directly funded by the year. 6.5 million for athletics or education? I don't think it is a hard equation to figure out where tax money probably should go.

Blame a lot of things, but title IX is not the issue here. University systems are bloated public entities that got fat living off the trough of public funds for decades. This isn't a missoula issue, it is a college issue that permeates every state. Hard choices need to be made, and unfortunately everyone is going to have to give at the altar this time. Either you concede that public post secondary education is worthwhile and states are willing to fully fund its whole mission, or you find other ways to pass off the cuts (higher tuition) or you cut things.

Dennison band aided things for twenty years. Things are going to get ugly at the UM, and I don't think athletics should be spared the knife either.

So just quoting this post cus I don’t want it to get ignored. I don’t know anywhere near enough to even argue any of these points and not just because I’m too far away to know what’s going on. I’ve never really been interested in the political and financial parts of the U and am quite frankly very uneducated in that area. I do believe 24 brings up some real good points that worry me about the future of our school though. I’d like some of you “know it alls” to give more of your opinions on what 24 says. I believe this is what PR was referencing with his numbers. Seems to me that title IX probably isn’t that big a deal as other issues but it’s the easy bandwagon argument by a bunch of football loving men.

I only brought up Title IX to point out the distinction between ALL athletics (which get subsidized) and FOOTBALL, which would not, if looked at on its own.

Definitely a valid point but then there’s others that come in behind and say “oh ya, title IX is definitely the problem.”

 

[Spanky2]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

Agreed. There’s some easy (albeit painful to local populations) decisions that could be made to mitigate the issue.

 

[bgbigdog]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

Agreed. There’s some easy (albeit painful to local populations) decisions that could be made to mitigate the issue.

So you’re saying there’s something wrong with my Wyoming State graduate degree?

 

[wbtfg]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

I don’t necessarily disagree, however, isn’t Wyoming near the bottom of the country when it comes to bachelor’s degrees by percentage? Also, have they developed an economy beyond agriculture and mining?


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[argh!]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

I don’t necessarily disagree, however, isn’t Wyoming near the bottom of the country when it comes to bachelor’s degrees by percentage? Also, have they developed an economy beyond agriculture and mining?


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i'm not sure spanked (spanking(bqm)) didn't point out wyoming as a cautionary tale, as opposed to being a model for montana to emulate.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Spanky2, the legislature has a hard time doing the simple, as noted with relatively small cuts needed to balance the current budget. You could start the Referendum process, get the signatures necessary to get it on the ballot, then when approved by the voters, defend it in court, when sued by every pissant entity adversely affected by the proposed closures. The state bureaucracy would fight you too.

 

[Spanky2]

Statler, all true, however is there a choice? At one time, given the geography of Montana, every campus may have been necessary. That is no longer true.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Close 'em. Montana has too much government at every level. All these fiefdoms want their control. For every $1 available, they'll want to spend $2.

 

[BWahlberg]

For reference, most recent it would seem that I could find is 2016's: https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2016/2016-MUS-Summary-Income-Statement_UM-Missoula.htm

After revenue and expenses:

Football made $3,500,000

Of all other sports:

MBB lost $200,000
WBB lost $500,000
Men's tennis lost $150,000
Men's track/XC lost $360,000
Softball lost $700,000
Golf lost $150,000
Women's Tennis lost $185,000
Soccer lost $500,000
Women's track/XC lost $400,000
Volleyball lost $350,000

A total loss of $3,500,000 when combining all sports

Fortunately there's a "non-program specific" field that made $1,700,000 in 2016 to keep athletics in the black.

 

[MTGRZ]

sounds like athletics might be a good place to start:

"The acute problems may call for unprecedented solutions, such as a smaller subsidy for athletics and one central university in Montana, Cook said. A 2015 analysis by a local legislator and economist showed UM's Athletics Department would run a deficit of some $8.6 million without state subsidies; a separate report also showed UM athletics supported itself more than any other school in the Big Sky Conference."

Is there an article you are referencing? Sorry, I don't know the source of this context.

 

[statler & waldorf]

APA format, Argh! :lol:

 

[AZGrizFan]

For reference, most recent it would seem that I could find is 2016's: https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2016/2016-MUS-Summary-Income-Statement_UM-Missoula.htm

After revenue and expenses:

Football made $3,500,000

Of all other sports:

MBB lost $200,000
WBB lost $500,000
Men's tennis lost $150,000
Men's track/XC lost $360,000
Softball lost $700,000
Golf lost $150,000
Women's Tennis lost $185,000
Soccer lost $500,000
Women's track/XC lost $400,000
Volleyball lost $350,000

A total loss of $3,500,000 when combining all sports

Fortunately there's a "non-program specific" field that made $1,700,000 in 2016 to keep athletics in the black.

Using those numbers it roughly equals a loss of $1,000,000 not $3.5 mil. Am I missing something?

 

[SoldierGriz]

"In 1992, the state picked up 76 percent of the tab for a college education; it's picking up 38 percent in 2018."

Today, the difference if racked up by generous parents or student debt...

 

[Gaeilge1]

This issue of Campus consolidation/closure has been around for years, at least since the mid 1970's, and there is always some justification that says it cannot be done.

The closest thing to consolidation came roughly 25 years ago when the legislature agreed to consolidate Campus administration into two units, UM becoming the Administrative hub for MT Tech and Western, and MSU becoming the hub for Northern and Eastern. That is as far as it ever went! Even when this minor step was taken there was significant criticism coming both out Missoula and Bozeman about the new albatrosses hung around their respective necks.

I doubt this will get resolved in time to do any good. Supposedly Western can not be closed because the land the campus sits on was given to the State for the sole purpose of building a college. If Western closes, the state loses its claim to the land. Regardless,
Western and Northern should both be closed. That would be true consolidation.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

This issue of Campus consolidation/closure has been around for years, at least since the mid 1970's, and there is always some justification that says it cannot be done.

The closest thing to consolidation came roughly 25 years ago when the legislature agreed to consolidate Campus administration into two units, UM becoming the Administrative hub for MT Tech and Western, and MSU becoming the hub for Northern and Eastern. That is as far as it ever went! Even when this minor step was taken there was significant criticism coming both out Missoula and Bozeman about the new albatrosses hung around their respective necks.

I doubt this will get resolved in time to do any good. Supposedly Western can not be closed because the land the campus sits on was given to the State for the sole purpose of building a college. If Western closes, the state loses its claim to the land. Regardless,
Western and Northern should both be closed. That would be true consolidation.

One fell swoop. Consolidate all these damn colleges and then do something about all these freaking independent school systems in this state! 420 school systems for a state with a population of one million? What a waste of money, resources and talent.

 

[hokeyfine]

Forget Title whatever. The bigger problem is we have too many schools for a rural state. As another poster said, time to close Northern and Western and yes, consider MSUB. We have waited far too long without taking action. Now is the time before someone gets serious about merging UM and MSU. Take a long look at Wyoming and then tell me it isn’t possible.

Great idea....... NEVER HAPPEN!...... Montana government doesn't have the balls, ovaries, or forethought to do something like this. Being a MT state legislator or senator is one of the easiest jobs there is because all you have to do is balance the budget(easy to do) and not have to come up with ways to improve the state as a whole.

 

[George Ferguson]

Northern isn't going anywhere, as long as Waded is president of the MSU system anyway. She's completely committed and invested in Northern. The top diesel tech building in the United States of America just opened. If you haven't seen it, check it out on Northern's Youtube page. The MSU system is full invested in in Northern succeeding. Also recently, a MAJOR donor has decided to start giving money to Northern as well. Was shocked when his name was brought up as a recent donor to this school. Didn't even know he knew it existed, but apparently he's become very smitten with Northern. Much like he has been with another school in Montana for decades. The school is also breaking ground on an on-campus football stadium this summer. And a new dorm is in the works as well. Like I said, Northern isn't going anywhere.

 

[Spanky2]

At the very least, convert Northern to a two year vocational school. Programs such as diesel training are in demand. Another could be truck driver training.
After two years, degree candidates should be required to transfer to UM or MSU.

 

[RABIDAWG]

I think I read once that, a long time ago when the idea of where to place the primary university, Great Falls was being considered, and all the other sites being subsidiaries, feeding the primary. Sort of the Junior college thing. Locational politics undoubtedly got in the way, and we have the scattered system we have now. Maybe one day, all these will be of a Junior college format, feeding the two "flagship" sites. All that real estate is not going to go away, and the economic engine probably helps those communities.