Lady Griz - Second Exhibition game vs Carroll

[citygriz]

I'm a Griz fan. I will always root for our teams, and be sad when they lose. I've been following the Lady Griz since their inception, and have had a close personal friendship with somebody close to the program.

But my issue with them is writ large, almost literally in black and white: Until they succeed in recruiting African-American players, the program is limited in how far it can go.

Big Sky power? Let's hope. But right now coaches see us as the fifth-best team in the conference. And unlike our men's team, which twice played credibly well on a national stage against one of the NCAA's elite basketball programs, the Lady Griz would get embarrassed against one of the nation's elite women's teams, let alone struggle against an NAIA team like Carroll.

I was hoping Shannon's arrival would change that; apparently not. Maybe Nate Covill's presence will help.

But just remember: NO NBA team could compete without black players, nor could any major college basketball or football program. Not even our own football or men's basketball program would attempt it. Only the Lady Griz.

And yes, I know what y'all will say: "Citay, we've heard it all before. Just shut the fukc up."

Sorry. Not my style.

So I while I wish the Blonde Bombers all the best, until they change their recruiting policies, I have to say: My dears, I just don't give a damn.

I do agree with you on one point. We need to recruit differently if we are going to compete. However the color of a players skin does not make them better or worse. We should recruit the best kids regardless of color. If that means colored kids then great. But I am not in favor of affirmative action in sports. If it is policy then it needs to be changed. I don't think it is policy though. One way we could change this program over night is go after some JC transfers. We miss the boat on this one. If we keep recruiting our own children we are going to have a tuff go of it. Oh and can you refrain from the term "African-American" ! They are American athletes. I don't think anyone recruits from Africa. If you were born in this country you are an American. Until black people start self identifying as Americans the racist issue will continue.

I will call people whatever THEY want to be called. That is always their choice, not mine.

Here's another great example of a school that tried to compete at the top levels of intercollegiate athletics without black athletes, but wound up changing their ways: Brigham Young. For them it was a deeply religious issue, or so they said: Cain slew Abel and so black people were not welcome in the LDS church, and were not even permitted to stay at the Mormon-owned Hotel Utah in Salt Lake. UNTIL: BYU found some great quarterbacks, but needed talent at the skill positions back about 1978 when LO! They had a REVELATION! Black people--especially if you happened to play cornerback!-were now more than welcome!

Here's hoping our Lady Griz have a similar revelation.

 

[TrueGriz]

I'm a Griz fan. I will always root for our teams, and be sad when they lose. I've been following the Lady Griz since their inception, and have had a close personal friendship with somebody close to the program.

But my issue with them is writ large, almost literally in black and white: Until they succeed in recruiting African-American players, the program is limited in how far it can go.

Big Sky power? Let's hope. But right now coaches see us as the fifth-best team in the conference. And unlike our men's team, which twice played credibly well on a national stage against one of the NCAA's elite basketball programs, the Lady Griz would get embarrassed against one of the nation's elite women's teams, let alone struggle against an NAIA team like Carroll.

I was hoping Shannon's arrival would change that; apparently not. Maybe Nate Covill's presence will help.

But just remember: NO NBA team could compete without black players, nor could any major college basketball or football program. Not even our own football or men's basketball program would attempt it. Only the Lady Griz.

And yes, I know what y'all will say: "Citay, we've heard it all before. Just shut the fukc up."

Sorry. Not my style.

So I while I wish the Blonde Bombers all the best, until they change their recruiting policies, I have to say: My dears, I just don't give a damn.

I do agree with you on one point. We need to recruit differently if we are going to compete. However the color of a players skin does not make them better or worse. We should recruit the best kids regardless of color. If that means colored kids then great. But I am not in favor of affirmative action in sports. If it is policy then it needs to be changed. I don't think it is policy though. One way we could change this program over night is go after some JC transfers. We miss the boat on this one. If we keep recruiting our own children we are going to have a tuff go of it. Oh and can you refrain from the term "African-American" ! They are American athletes. I don't think anyone recruits from Africa. If you were born in this country you are an American. Until black people start self identifying as Americans the racist issue will continue.

I agree. Recruit the best player whether black, White, or whatever. But if they did that, you would think that some of them would have been black.

 

[PlayerRep]

Do you think the Griz aren't recruiting blacks, or are they just not coming?

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Watched the game tonight. Carroll is legit. They're currently ranked seventh (7th) in the NAIA Pre-season poll. Like most NAIA teams, they have several deadeye gunslingers who launch semi jump-set, high arcing shots from the far corners of the floor that barely flip the net. Unlike most NAIA teams, they play pretty tough defense. The difference? Post play. Stockholm, Anderson and Pickens pretty effectively controlled the paint. I wouldn't consider it an embarrassment to lose to this team, and I think it's far better to host a quality lower division like this team instead of a team we'd thrash by 35. We'll be able to do some early team comparisons, as the Saints will play MSU in Bozeman on Nov. 11.

we did not control the paint. We were outscored in the paint.

I was at the game and what I observed:
• Shot charts, fouls/free throws, rebounds & second chances are the stats that coaches use to grade performance. I liked how Montana's "bigs" played. Those ratings, I believe, will carry over well against Big Sky competition.
• Sophia Stiles started at point, and played point most of the time she was on the floor. Johnston (and Fatkin once or twice) played point when Stiles was off the floor. Johnston handled the ball on most fullcourt transitions.
• Stiles and Johnston (in my book) both played well. Both see the floor very well; I'm glad they're Montana players! Lines: Points -- Johnston 19/Stiles 7; Rebounds -- Johnston 7/Stiles 4; Asst.-to-turnover: Johnston 8-3/ Stiles 2-3; Steals -- Johnston 0/Stiles 2; +/- ; Plus-Minus -- Johnston 8/Stiles 10; Minutes -- Johnston 42:38/Stiles 33:11. My conclusion: Both players scored out very well and will only get better. Stiles (to me) is not in full-game strength because she hasn't played in well over a year.
• Perimeter shooting was (in my opinion) a major factor. Montana shot 26% from the perimeter and I believe that will improve significantly in future games.
• One of Montana's offensive sets last night was, I believe, a close variant to one of Robin Selvig's most successful schemes (can't prove this; I don't talk to coaches). It takes time to learn, but works best with two very mobile guards on the floor (Mandy Morales/Sonya Rogers -- 2005-09!). Johnston, Stiles and Fatkin have the potential to be very successful in this offensive set.
• Having watched Montana women's basketball for nearly 40 years, it's my opinion that the pace of Montana WB is much faster than it's ever been.
• This team has a ton of depth, more than it's had for at least three years. It will take a few games for all the rotation variants to gear up. I like what I'm seeing. Go Griz!

Just a quick question, What makes you think our outside shooting will Miraculously improve with future games? 4 years in and we have not improved yet.

Hey moneyball: I guess I know what you're thinking... :roll: That's OK with me. In truth, I'm a stats geek, which means I always end up being a realist in the long run(win or lose). Some stats are predictive, some are not. As a fan, I admit to being an optimist. I've been a Montana and Montana WB fan for a long time, always go to their games and decided long ago to drop the negative stuff. They're kids... students. They're close in age to my own granddaughters. I want them all to do well. That also goes for coaches.

In that light, I believe that this team has the potential to do well. First order: stay healthy. So, based upon shooting stats from last season (FG: 41% and 3PtFG 28%) I believe it's statistically possible to improve overall FG% by 1-4 percent, and to increase 3 point FG % by 5-7%. If this year's team does not improve, you can copy this post & razz me next March.

 

[moneyball]

Some are eternal optimists. Some are eternal pessimists. I think most can figure out which posters are of which category.

you are forgetting the third option....realists.

 

[moneyball]

we did not control the paint. We were outscored in the paint.

I was at the game and what I observed:
• Shot charts, fouls/free throws, rebounds & second chances are the stats that coaches use to grade performance. I liked how Montana's "bigs" played. Those ratings, I believe, will carry over well against Big Sky competition.
• Sophia Stiles started at point, and played point most of the time she was on the floor. Johnston (and Fatkin once or twice) played point when Stiles was off the floor. Johnston handled the ball on most fullcourt transitions.
• Stiles and Johnston (in my book) both played well. Both see the floor very well; I'm glad they're Montana players! Lines: Points -- Johnston 19/Stiles 7; Rebounds -- Johnston 7/Stiles 4; Asst.-to-turnover: Johnston 8-3/ Stiles 2-3; Steals -- Johnston 0/Stiles 2; +/- ; Plus-Minus -- Johnston 8/Stiles 10; Minutes -- Johnston 42:38/Stiles 33:11. My conclusion: Both players scored out very well and will only get better. Stiles (to me) is not in full-game strength because she hasn't played in well over a year.
• Perimeter shooting was (in my opinion) a major factor. Montana shot 26% from the perimeter and I believe that will improve significantly in future games.
• One of Montana's offensive sets last night was, I believe, a close variant to one of Robin Selvig's most successful schemes (can't prove this; I don't talk to coaches). It takes time to learn, but works best with two very mobile guards on the floor (Mandy Morales/Sonya Rogers -- 2005-09!). Johnston, Stiles and Fatkin have the potential to be very successful in this offensive set.
• Having watched Montana women's basketball for nearly 40 years, it's my opinion that the pace of Montana WB is much faster than it's ever been.
• This team has a ton of depth, more than it's had for at least three years. It will take a few games for all the rotation variants to gear up. I like what I'm seeing. Go Griz!

Just a quick question, What makes you think our outside shooting will Miraculously improve with future games? 4 years in and we have not improved yet.

Hey moneyball: I guess I know what you're thinking... :roll: That's OK with me. In truth, I'm a stats geek, which means I always end up being a realist in the long run(win or lose). Some stats are predictive, some are not. As a fan, I admit to being an optimist. I've been a Montana and Montana WB fan for a long time, always go to their games and decided long ago to drop the negative stuff. They're kids... students. They're close in age to my own granddaughters. I want them all to do well. That also goes for coaches.

In that light, I believe that this team has the potential to do well. First order: stay healthy. So, based upon shooting stats from last season (FG: 41% and 3PtFG 28%) I believe it's statistically possible to improve overall FG% by 1-4 percent, and to increase 3 point FG % by 5-7%. If this year's team does not improve, you can copy this post & razz me next March.

Haha...I will do just that. I actually am an optimist at heart. I actually care about the kids on the team at a very deep level. I care about the program very much. I care about their welfare, health and mindset. My problem is that because I care, I can't stand by and be silent when I know the cancer that infects our team. You see it is not just about Basketball. These young woman will carry around with them for the rest of their lives the experience of being a Lady Griz. About a dozen girls so far in the last 3 yrs have had a horrible experience. It has little to do with wins or losses. Coaches are supposed to be mentors as well as coach. Shannon fails miserably on both counts. She can't be gone fast enough.

 

[grizzlyjournal]

Meanwhile, another Montana team just won a Big Sky championship. Hearty congrats to the Montana Grizzly Soccer team on its 1-0 victory at Eastern Washington. Montana had to win the game against the Eagles to win the title. They did just that.

Montana earns top seed going into the Big Sky Tourney... which gives them a pretty good statistical advantage. This Montana team is young... NO seniors, five juniors (all very good players), and the rest of the squad composed of sophomores and freshmen.

Here's the game winner: [media]https://twitter.com/INWsoccernews/status/1189698935805186048[/media]

 

[westsider]

I'm a Griz fan. I will always root for our teams, and be sad when they lose. I've been following the Lady Griz since their inception, and have had a close personal friendship with somebody close to the program.

But my issue with them is writ large, almost literally in black and white: Until they succeed in recruiting African-American players, the program is limited in how far it can go.

Big Sky power? Let's hope. But right now coaches see us as the fifth-best team in the conference. And unlike our men's team, which twice played credibly well on a national stage against one of the NCAA's elite basketball programs, the Lady Griz would get embarrassed against one of the nation's elite women's teams, let alone struggle against an NAIA team like Carroll.

I was hoping Shannon's arrival would change that; apparently not. Maybe Nate Covill's presence will help.

But just remember: NO NBA team could compete without black players, nor could any major college basketball or football program. Not even our own football or men's basketball program would attempt it. Only the Lady Griz.

And yes, I know what y'all will say: "Citay, we've heard it all before. Just shut the fukc up."

Sorry. Not my style.

So I while I wish the Blonde Bombers all the best, until they change their recruiting policies, I have to say: My dears, I just don't give a damn.

:clap:

 

[westsider]

Please tell me Carroll college is insanely legit because it’s somewhat embarrassing to almost lose to them. Sounds like they easily could have. I know they were good last year and Griz still neat them by like 20, correct?

They are legit...for...an NAIA Team. We have had two bad showings against NAIA team's so far, not good! Carrol won two quarters outright and were even in the fourth. Lady Griz only won one quarter. Carrol Outscored us in the paint and shot better from the perimeter than us. (43% to our 26%) With 50 seconds to go Carrol is up 65-62. If Taylor misses we loose. If the lady Griz miss one free throw during the game or Carrol makes one, we lose!! The efficiency rating for both teams was +6. What does that mean? It means that an NAIA team was the same level as a Division one team. There is only one conclusion that can come from this, either Carrol is really good or we are really bad.

Pathetic and very embarrassing!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting Different results. The Lady Griz look the same as they have since Shannon took over. We still can't shoot as a team from the outside(26%) and our defense is lacking. To quote Shannon "Instead it was turnover, turnover, forced shot, forced shot. We've got to be better than that and learn from those things." (Same story different year) Why are our shots forced? It has to do with our offensive scheme, it sucks! How are the girls going to"learn from those things"?? They have to be taught by a competent coach, that's how. We have talented girls but they are not being taught proper fundamentals, Shooting, passing and dribbling. Their footwork on defense is not at the division 1 level. We are still making the same mistakes we were when Shannon took over 3 yrs ago.

Then Shannon does this, "Schweyen cleared out the side for McKenzie Johnston, putting the outcome in the hands of her fifth-year point guard.
And why not? Johnston would finish the night with 19 points, eight assists and seven rebounds. But her late spin dribble into traffic led to a turnover, which led to overtime." (a TURNOVER that's why not)

Kenzie is not a point guard and consistently has problems dribbling in traffic. Put the ball in Sophia's hands(much better choice) and get to the foul line and win the game!!! Nope!!! turnover!

So here is the bottom line. Since we are struggling to beat NAIA teams, how are we ever going to win a Big Sky Championship and get back to the NCAA? When you finish in a draw at the end of regulation it is not a win. In my mind it is a loss. Just before Taylor made her shot to send us to overtime Shannon looked like she was about to ***t herself on the sideline. And for good reason. Can you imagine the spin in the media today if Carrol actually would have won in regulation. Shannon's job is on the line and this game did not help her case. Time for a change!

:thumb: :clap:

 

[grizindabox]

I think people may be reading too much into an exhibition game against a NAIA school. But with that being said, if this Lady Griz team struggles to shoot the ball like so a many Lady Griz teams in the past, they will struggle to consistently win games and lose big much more often than win big.

 

[go96griz]

I think people may be reading too much into an exhibition game against a NAIA school. But with that being said, if this Lady Griz team struggles to shoot the ball like so a many Lady Griz teams in the past, they will struggle to consistently win games and lose big much more often than win big.

How many games had the Saints played before this game? I don't know the answer, but in the past many of these first exhibition games for the Lady Griz were against teams that had already played 3 or 4 times. That does make a difference when you have a lineup basically set and game continuity with the players. This team could have easily choked and lost down the stretch. Hoping the come from behind and win in OT are a good sign...

 

[GrizLA]

Lots of hostility posted here toward the women's coach.Deserved or not, it doesn't seem fair. UM has not been competitive nationally for years. The women had success earlier because the high school programs were offering basket ball for young women for longer than many states did, and some of the girls were ready to play at a higher level with a knowledgeable coaching staff. If the Lady Griz are to succeed as most here want, then it will take an effort at developing high schools and junior high competition and will not happen over night. I don't really have much interest in the Lady Griz but do check the scores. I do not know if they have the equivalent of the CYO leagues or AAU but they are expected to compete favorably with those who do. South Carolina is a rural state, largely, with a booming population, but I have watched womens' bball grow from literally street ball to a national championship. Development comes but it takes effort.

 

[Paytonlives]

The Carroll College women's basketball team opened up their season with a 61-45 loss to the University of Calgary.

:wtf:

 

[PlayerRep]

Calgary is 6-1 with some decent wins. Maybe 9-1 with exhibitions.

https://godinos.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=212

 

[Grizfan-24]

I think my opinions on the program have been made pretty clear over the past year.

Regardless of who the opponent was, there are a couple of issues that are concerning.

1. Offensive Efficiency: they were below average last year and I get there are new rotations to consider here early on in the year, but the low efficiency on offense is concerning. They shot 40 percent from the field, 20 percent from 3 and 66 percent from the line. Mix in a negative turnover to assist ratio, it appears some of the same issues that flagged the women last year haven’t on paper through the two exhibition games been eliminated. Again this is a small sample size, but if the lady Griz are to improve dramatically they are going to need to be more efficient. Too many poor shots, shot selection and turnovers. You can handle poor shooting from the perimeter if you are good else where.

2. Defensively, it does scare me they have given up 70 and 74 points to NAIA teams. Again this is small sample size, but through two games both NAIA programs have hit a number of threes, shot over 40% from the floor. As someone told me (cause I wasn’t at either game), both LCSC and Carroll could get any shot they wanted. This was an issue last year and again for the women to succeed, considering how inefficient of an offensive team they have been in the three years Schweyen has been the coach, getting better on the defensive end is going to make the season vastly more positive than not. I think it is possible, considering we hope that with Stiles and Goligoski healthy they can be much improved at directing the flow of the defense than they were the past two years.

—-
I’ll chalk up some of the concerns as early season and small sample size. I do want the program to succeed and as such I want Schweyen to succeed. I think if they are middling on both of the points above, it is going to be a tough slog. They have a chance to be much better offensively, because I think they will be able to spread the floor a bit better this year and I do hope it is enough to carry them through during conference season.

 

[rosco]

Calgary is 6-1 with some decent wins. Maybe 9-1 with exhibitions.

https://godinos.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=212

Sounds like its a good thing the Lady Griz didn't play Calgary

 

[WyomingGrizFan]

I think people may be reading too much into an exhibition game against a NAIA school. But with that being said, if this Lady Griz team struggles to shoot the ball like so a many Lady Griz teams in the past, they will struggle to consistently win games and lose big much more often than win big.

Yeah, that's all we need. Someone strutting the sidelines thinking she's another Pat Summitt and she hasn't accomplished anything yet.

 

[TrueGriz]

3 weeks and 1 day from today (11/2/2019) until the massacre at the fieldhouse is going to happen. I am going to feel sorry for the Lady Griz then. I think everybody who watches this coming massacre will be walking out of the game with tears in their eyes it could be so bad.

 

[Griz2k]

3 weeks and 1 day from today (11/2/2019) until the massacre at the fieldhouse is going to happen. I am going to feel sorry for the Lady Griz then. I think everybody who watches this coming massacre will be walking out of the game with tears in their eyes it could be so bad.

Jesus, that's an extremely disturbing post. Maybe you'd care to rephrase?

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

3 weeks and 1 day from today (11/2/2019) until the massacre at the fieldhouse is going to happen. I am going to feel sorry for the Lady Griz then. I think everybody who watches this coming massacre will be walking out of the game with tears in their eyes it could be so bad.

Jesus, that's an extremely disturbing post. Maybe you'd care to rephrase?

My best guess is he's talking about when the Arizona Wildcats come to Missoula.