New hiring freeze at UM

[AZDoc]

this would be a good time to...

1) consolidate some of the duplicate programs in the montana system,
2) give non-productive, retirement age professors who have tenure a six month terminal contract,
3) transfer the contracts of non-productive, tenured professors with significant contract time for research. those who are good teachers, but not likely to accrue significant research grants in the future, should go to 9 month, teaching contracts, with increased teaching loads and little or no time allotted for research

+++++

Kem gave plenty of + so i'll just give that final 1.

 

[kemajic]

Re. the Lady Griz HC job, Haslam may be limited to internal promotion.

 

[kemajic]

About once/yr someone comes on here and suggests closing the smaller schools or making them JUCO or 2-yr or something dumb like that, and I just SMH.
My guess is, they know very little about those schools, probably have never really visited them, maybe never even went to college, and if they did, I guarantee it was not at MT Tech. They can knock themselves out talking trash about the little schools. Fine by me. But it just shows their ignorance, particularly if they are lumping Tech into the brilliant plan

I don't think the plan is terrible, and I went to one of those small schools. I think population wise, it is understandable. Tech is in the discussion because it is what it is, a decent engineering school. I'm not saying I agree with the thought, but it may come down to that as being a possible answer. I would rather that UofM work on the degree programs offered to help move into the future. The problem is that many of the offerings haven't evolved over the last 30 years, many of them not as practical as they were back then. Whether you take a physical class or an online class, tuition is still paid. If this leads to more online courses possible and the closing or renovation of some of the old physical buildings, I don't think that is a bad thing going forward. The university IS on life support, and has been for a while. Change is what will keep it going.

Of course the science and engineering courses with experimental lab needs are not suited to online, nor are undergraduate and graduate research, which is what brings in the grant money. There is solid logic to consolidation, but the resistance from the little thiefdom stakeholders is fierce.

 

[garizzalies]

Sir-spanks-alot,
I know how dumb this “discussion” is, if it includes Tech. I want to see how dumb you guys can make it. For my own entertainment purposes; so bored lately. Let’s hear it?
Here, I’ll help you out. I believe there are 7 “small” colleges in MT. But 3 are private (Carroll, Rocky, GFP) so the state has no control over cutting those.
I’m telling you now, Tech will never be on the cut list. In fact, I think it’s more likely that Tech’s enrollment surpasses UM’s someday (I’m not saying that’s probable, but it is looking way more likely than one of these hair-brained ideas to cut it). I’ll bet you have not been on campus in at least 100 years. Pound-for-pound, it’s the best school in the state, and I don’t think that’s even a contest. This oughta catch me some trolls: Tech is the best engineering school and nursing school in the state.
Tech has accredited PhDs now which are very unique and recently brought in like 20 mil in research grants.
So that leaves only 3 schools: Western, Northern, and MSU-b. Like I said, if you want to argue those 3 should be limited, knock yourself out. But don’t make yourself look so stupid by including Tech.
Personally, I don’t like the idea of limiting those three. They are at opposite corners of the state, and it seems like you’re sentencing those isolated regions to a lifetime of destitution

You have to ask yourself whether there is anything unique about the Butte facilities for Tech and whether the Tech programs and faculties could be consolidated to the overbuilt UM campus.

Here’s another example of somebody who probably has not been on Tech’s campus in at least 100yrs.
And perfect egriz logic: to fix something that’s broken, we should destroy something that’s nearly perfect.
Gives me an idea on how to fix this whole COVID problem: if you’re over 50, you get a bullet in the head. #boom. Problem solved. You’re welcome.

You are delusional. Tech's enrollment is decreasing, not increasing. It's cost per student hour is high because it is so small. There is a ceiling on its potential growth because of the size of the Butte infrastructure without significant investment which is not going to happen. It's excellent programs would benefit from a larger campus infrastructure and cross campus opportunities. That vacant infrastructure already exists at the Missoula campus. It could be set up as a separate Tech School to avoid contamination by poorly managed UM departments. Your myopic defensive view of Tech today is counter to the overall University System's need to provide more cost effective learning across the state. The state does not need two engineering schools within 85 miles.

Speaking of delusional, do think your childish response to the COVID-19 crisis helps your Tech argument? Easy to dismiss anything you post.

I’m delusional because I offended you? Thought you were tougher than that. And smarter.
Enrollment is decreasing across the board, so not sure that gets you anywhere.
And you’re the one who tried to make some kind of student “cost” argument. I know you meant from the state’s perspective, but it’s so ironic considering Tech has won national awards for its affordability. Easy to dismiss anything you post.
And your “infrastructure” argument also falls flat. Not surprising since you haven’t been on campus in >100yrs. There has been far more development of new academic buildings at tech recently over UM, and those new buildings will not be going empty anytime soon to fill shitty old buildings at UM. Anyone who believes that is delusional.
I know you’re smarter than that. So it makes me wonder if you feel threatened of something weird. Like how a Chemistry degree from Tech is probably a better decision than a Chem degree from UM nowadays.

 

[AZDoc]

About once/yr someone comes on here and suggests closing the smaller schools or making them JUCO or 2-yr or something dumb like that, and I just SMH.
My guess is, they know very little about those schools, probably have never really visited them, maybe never even went to college, and if they did, I guarantee it was not at MT Tech. They can knock themselves out talking trash about the little schools. Fine by me. But it just shows their ignorance, particularly if they are lumping Tech into the brilliant plan

I don't think the plan is terrible, and I went to one of those small schools. I think population wise, it is understandable. Tech is in the discussion because it is what it is, a decent engineering school. I'm not saying I agree with the thought, but it may come down to that as being a possible answer. I would rather that UofM work on the degree programs offered to help move into the future. The problem is that many of the offerings haven't evolved over the last 30 years, many of them not as practical as they were back then. Whether you take a physical class or an online class, tuition is still paid. If this leads to more online courses possible and the closing or renovation of some of the old physical buildings, I don't think that is a bad thing going forward. The university IS on life support, and has been for a while. Change is what will keep it going.

Of course the science and engineering courses with experimental lab needs are not suited to online, nor are undergraduate and graduate research, which is what brings in the grant money. There is solid logic to consolidation, but the resistance from the little thiefdom stakeholders is fierce.

Oh absolutely. I was thinking more coming up with new ideas moving forward. Some cores have no options, which is also very important.

 

[behappp]

Just wait...


Interesting blog on the future of Education

https://www.profgalloway.com/post-corona-higher-ed

 

[Grizzoola]

How about this:

1. UM & MSU only 4 yr schools in the state. UM, has business, law, only. MSU has architecture, ag, engineering only. Prep for either specialty done 1st 2 yrs. @ either school. Even education done only at UM.
2. Tech, MSU-Billings become upper-division 2 yr schools. Prep for them done at UM & MSU, or at local community colleges.
3. Havre & Dillon become 2-yr. state community colleges, joining Missoula College, Gallatin College, Great Falls, etc.
4. Flathead Valley, Glendive, & Miles City Community Colleges remain as they are, locally, not state-supported schools. Hopefully, Bitterroot College becomes a local school, as well, instead of state-controlled.
5. All 2-yr. colleges separated from the universities under their own Commissioner.
6. Tech & MSU-B, as upper-division schools, included w/ UM & MSU.

This is an idea, lots of wrinkles, but it's a way to rethink the byzantine MT higher ed. structure we have now, plus eliminating some duplication and cutting many upper division staff to reduce cost.

 

[Spanky2]

Why not make Tech and MSU Billings, Community Colleges? Time to get it done.

 

[Grizzoola]

Why not make Tech and MSU Billings, Community Colleges? Time to get it done.

There already are community colleges in Butte (Highlands College) and Billings (City College). Suggesting Tech & MSU-B as upper-division 2-yr institutes preserves their program specialties. Tech, at least, w/ its petroleum, mining, and hydrology engineering programs.

 

[Spanky2]

Generally, the idea is excellent. The tech and MSUB programs can be merged into UM and MSU.

 

[garizzalies]

Ok, Boomers. It’s bedtime.
Probably not as dumb and impractical as a dome over WaGriz, but for Tech, it is getting close.

 

[kemajic]

Generally, the idea is excellent. The tech and MSUB programs can be merged into UM and MSU.

Doesn't make sense for MSU-B. It is essentially the City College of the largest city / county in the state. A very high percentage of the students are local commuters. Maybe it should be operated by the City / County rather than the state. It's proximity to the massive hospital complex is underutilized.

 

[garizzalies]

Generally, the idea is excellent. The tech and MSUB programs can be merged into UM and MSU.

Doesn't make sense for MSU-B. It is essentially the City College of the largest city / county in the state. A very high percentage of the students are local commuters. Maybe it should be operated by the City / County rather than the state. It's proximity to the massive hospital complex is underutilized.

WTF? Just a few posts above you said this:

There is solid logic to consolidation, but the resistance from the little thiefdom stakeholders is fierce.

So it’s okay to torpedo the small colleges except for the one in your “little thiefdom?”

 

[Griz66]

These are difficult times and like it or not we have way too many 4 year schools in the state considering our population. We need UM and MSU and that is it, i know that is not what lots of people want to hear but we need to face reality

 

[Grizzoola]

These are difficult times and like it or not we have way too many 4 year schools in the state considering our population. We need UM and MSU and that is it, i know that is not what lots of people want to hear but we need to face reality

Well, I agree w/ this & it was a mistake in the beginning to set up 6 4-yr. state schools. Actually, Paris Gibson of Great Falls, proposed one 4-yr school at, naturally, Great Falls, but it made good sense, w/ GF closest to state geographical center. Imagine that MT would have been in MWC long ago, w/ Wyoming, etc. BTW, Wyoming did it right.

The only way I can see, as already said, Tech & MSU-B cut lower division programs, Northern & Western cut upper division programs. Also, 2-yr schools removed from university control w/ their own commissioner. Use saved funds from cuts to help fund liberal arts transfer programs at all 2-yr colleges that don't have them (Missoula College, etc.), making them comprehensive community colleges answering to local needs w/o university control.

 

[kemajic]

Doesn't make sense for MSU-B. It is essentially the City College of the largest city / county in the state. A very high percentage of the students are local commuters. Maybe it should be operated by the City / County rather than the state. It's proximity to the massive hospital complex is underutilized.

WTF? Just a few posts above you said this:

There is solid logic to consolidation, but the resistance from the little thiefdom stakeholders is fierce.

So it’s okay to torpedo the small colleges except for the one in your “little thiefdom?”

God you are reading impaired - and so Tech myopic. I suggested MSU-B not be a ward of the state, but a ward of the county or city. The support relief from the state offers the same results as consolidation - state cost reduction. As to the question, which county/city needs a commuter college the most, Yellowstone County is the largest in the state - roughly 5 times the population of Silverbow. It has the critical mass to support a public city/county college.

 

[putter]

Tough thing about closing the smaller schools, unless you take the Wyoming plan, is they are so important to these small communities.

 

[Grizzoola]

Tough thing about closing the smaller schools, unless you take the Wyoming plan, is they are so important to these small communities.

No school has to be closed, just downsized.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

One can't help but think Montana will be impacted much more than Washington.

https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/washington-state-students-working-their-way-through-college-are-hard-hit-by-coronavirus/

 

[PlayerRep]

"Financial hits pile up for colleges as some fight to survive

Colleges across the nation are scrambling to close deep budget holes and some have been pushed to the brink of collapse after the coronavirus outbreak triggered a series of financial losses"

"Colleges across the nation are scrambling to close deep budget holes and some have been pushed to the brink of collapse after the coronavirus outbreak triggered financial losses that could total more than $100 million at some institutions.

Scores of colleges say they’re taking heavy hits as they refund money to students for housing, dining and parking after campuses closed last month. Many schools are losing millions more in ticket sales after athletic seasons were cut short, and some say huge shares of their reserves have been wiped out amid wild swings in the stock market.

Yet college leaders say that’s only the start of their troubles: Even if campuses reopen this fall, many worry large numbers of students won't return. There's widespread fear that an economic downturn will leave many Americans unable to afford tuition, and universities are forecasting steep drop-offs among international students who may think twice about studying abroad so soon after a pandemic.

“If you play out the scenarios that are out there, it really makes you nervous,” said Mary Papazian, president of San Jose State University, which estimates it will lose $16 million by the end of May. “We may be looking at cutting academic programs if it comes to it. We may be looking at laying off people. It’s a dire situation if the worst comes to pass.”

Dozens of colleges have instituted hiring freezes, and many are halting construction projects so they have enough money to pay employees. But university presidents say the savings will only stretch so far, and many are asking the federal government for a second stimulus package to avoid deeper cuts.

The $2 trillion rescue bill signed by President Donald Trump last month provides $14 billion for higher education. The American Council on Education, an association of college presidents, had requested $50 billion and called the package “woefully inadequate.”

Read in ABC News: https://apple.news/Aj3Ues7cUSqmqvz-pGu9qWQ