Rachac tweets Jordan Johnson is expelled

[grizindabox]

I know it will never happen but we could field wrestling, baseball and hockey and be competitive at the highest levels of collegiate athletics in all three within a few short year

Not sure why this stuff hasn't happened yet.. they would be terrific UM sports. Baseball would be dicey since the weather in the spring sucks here, but the other two would be very successful.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and Title IX

At the expense of football!

Football is king and the cash cow for the athletic program. Without football, there would not be money to support other sports.

 

[grizindabox]

Time for a 24 hour timeout Growler1 - your constant personal attacks provide no content to this discussion.

Not sure I wanted this to happen so soon, but I could sure see it coming. He was in fine form today.

Its bullsh*t that he gets banned he doesnt dish out anything more than the people that attack him everyday.

Are you just mad because hes right more than most of the idiots on here?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I think it's because he doesn't even make an attempt at humor or levity, just plain old insults. He comes off as arrogant and bitter.

He is arrogant and bitter!

 

[Grizzoola]

I know it will never happen but we could field wrestling, baseball and hockey and be competitive at the highest levels of collegiate athletics in all three within a few short year

Not sure why this stuff hasn't happened yet.. they would be terrific UM sports. Baseball would be dicey since the weather in the spring sucks here, but the other two would be very successful.

When UM (then MSU) had a baseball team, I walked on for it and remember that they went somewhere in southern ID over spring break for training, so there is some modicum of escaping the weather. Actually, the weather was not all that bad up here, either. Some nostalgia: We practiced & played at the old Campbell Field at the corner of South Avenue & Higgins, which is now a parking lot.

 

[indian-outlaw]

Time for a 24 hour timeout Growler1 - your constant personal attacks provide no content to this discussion.

Not sure I wanted this to happen so soon, but I could sure see it coming. He was in fine form today.

Its bullsh*t that he gets banned he doesnt dish out anything more than the people that attack him everyday.

Are you just mad because hes right more than most of the idiots on here?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I think it's because he doesn't even make an attempt at humor or levity, just plain old insults. He comes off as arrogant and bitter.

He does get attacked a lot but he mostly brings it on himself. He reminds me of an old Indian proverb that has been handed down many generations across the plains.

“man with itchy butt has smelly fingers”

 

[MrTitleist]

Not sure why this stuff hasn't happened yet.. they would be terrific UM sports. Baseball would be dicey since the weather in the spring sucks here, but the other two would be very successful.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and Title IX

At the expense of football!

Football is king and the cash cow for the athletic program. Without football, there would not be money to support other sports.

Wyoming is reaping the benefits of a successful wrestling team.. the team had terrific attendance this season, sent several guys to the NCAA championships, and hosted powerhouses such as Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.. I think with the quality of wrestlers within Montana's borders (and in the Pacific NW) they'd have a great chance at success. Hockey seems to be popular in these parts too.. sometimes I really dislike the Title IX rules.. if the interest is there for a sport it should be started up..

 

[krammer]

this is a fact...someone or several someone's did not agree with coach pflu that jj was a man of integrity etc. etc.,,,,,the next fact is after the firing of th a/d, head coach, and jj being expelled will hurt the griz nation for a long , long time to come in so many ways it's difficult to fathom....who knows what the doj and doe are going to find and how many more players will be involved and what sanctions may be put on the griz program.......... it just makes me sick to my stomach !!!!!

 

[DuCharme]

Sorry for the multi-posts. My phone did something goofy.

The problem is somewhere between the chair and the phone.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Not sure I wanted this to happen so soon, but I could sure see it coming. He was in fine form today.

Its bullsh*t that he gets banned he doesnt dish out anything more than the people that attack him everyday.

Are you just mad because hes right more than most of the idiots on here?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I think it's because he doesn't even make an attempt at humor or levity, just plain old insults. He comes off as arrogant and bitter.

He does get attacked a lot but he mostly brings it on himself. He reminds me of an old Indian proverb that has been handed down many generations across the plains.

“man with itchy butt has smelly fingers”

An all time classic egriz post. LMAO ROTFL :thumb: :lol:

 

[mtgrizrule]

SO, with this, and all the other recent happenings, Does this mean Montana is slowly becoming a basketball school? Speaking of which, Coach Tinkle signed a new 3 year contract. YES, finally some good news for GRIZ athletics.

The sad part of all these accusations, is there will be a lot of liars coming out of these cases, both male, and female. No offense to females, is intended in this. This decision really does set a bad tone for current, and future GRIZ students. Does this mean, every time there is a rape accusation the male is automatically treated as being guilty, with having to prove himself innocent? This question has nothing to do with JJ, or GRIZ football.

Also, how many of the other accused are getting the same outcome as JJ? Have they even heard/done anything with any of cases involving non athletes? Are they even in the process of being heard through whatever the process entails?

I do hope the University and whatever group hears these things will tweak this a lot. Honestly to God, no matter what the accusations are, there has to be some sort of equal ramifications on the accuser, if the accusations fall short in evidence, or found to be false. Sorry, rather it be JJ, or any student, I completely disagree with the decision, based on what we don't know in this. Yet, because of student protection rights, etc, we may never hear on the reasons behind this, or any decision. I do hope JJ, and anyone expelled will fight the decision with everything they can.

I am learning, since Engstrom took over, more people have less accurate information, than before. I was told a decision on JJ would be reached before June 01, which was right. I also heard the findings were in his favor. Sorry, but I don't see the result, of being in his favor.

Seriously, if any of the females/accusers are found to be lying, and making stuff up, for whatever reason, what should their punishment be? Right now, male students are almost powerless in these procedures.

This decision is impacting the schools future already. I have already heard word from a few families that they have no faith in the leadership at Montana, and their kids will be attending college elsewhere. Another donor refuses to donate until/unless legitimate reasons are given, and/or Engstrom, and Foley are let go too. Good news, if there is any, some people are turning their focus back to GRIZ basketball, which is in good standing, in the eye of the public.

 

[Tokyogriz]

You all should read the code of conduct and the level of proof required. The "court" is nothing of the sort. It is all stacked in favor of the accuser and not the accussed. There is no due process for any student alleged to have committed an off campus sexual offense. The standard of proof is the lowest legal standard allowed. Rules of evidence do not apply. So this means nothing in terms of the merits against any student as to whether that student actually legally committed the alleged offense. People ought to be talking about the injustice of being expelled over an alleged offense you will never be charged with because there is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, much less proof by clear and convincing evidence. Nope, all the "court" as some may call it, considers in an off campus sexual offense is proof by a preponderance of the evidence. This in an injustice for all students and I am ashamed that in our system of justice, administrative rules tied to financing are allowed to ruin students lives who are viewed under the Constitution as innocent. This goes beyond football and while you all are on e-Griz day and night you are slowly losing all of your rights. That is the real story here. I hope the news is not true, but if it is it means nothing in terms of truth.

Unfortunately you seem to be correct that UM in fact takes any womans word and will kick you out of school at the drop of the hat.

I truely dont understand why any person who claims to love america and the life we live here would relish in the destruction of some of the most basic rights that make the USA great. There is no JUSTICE here or even a lesson to be learned other than men are in fact worth less than a woman in the eyes of the University of Montana.

Is Jordan Johnson being charged with a sexual assault or rape? If so that would change the discussion but right now it is based on ONLY an accusation which as of this point has not been concluded to merit a charge in the eyes of the law who have looked at this extensively over the last couple months.

Why is a woman worth more than me or my sons? Arent men and women equal and deserve equal treatment in all respects INCLUDING the right to not be guilty nor judged guilty and punished accordingly until they are charged and found so?

Everyone on here clapping and cheering Engstrom should ask theselves if their son was accused in this case, but after the police and DA reviewed the case and brought no charges if they would support their son being punished in this manner. I sincerly doubt it.

UM president Royce Engstrom is an embarrasment to me as a Montanan and UM alumn. I will drop by his office and personally tell mr Engstrom exactly what I think of him this week if its possible.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I see jokyo doesnt understand the difference between a lot of things but now hes having trouble with the law and the difference when it comes to rules of a public entity.

And if my son was accused of this he would deserve whatever comes his way because he put himself in a bad position.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[grizindabox]

Tokyo, have you ever read the Student Code of Conduct?

 

[PTGrizzly]

Time for a 24 hour timeout Growler1 - your constant personal attacks provide no content to this discussion.

I don't like Growler very much, but he's attacking others just as much as other are attacking him. If you're going to give him a 24 hour ban, you had better give everybody else a 24 hour ban as well. Keep it fair.

 

[PTGrizzly]

You all should read the code of conduct and the level of proof required. The "court" is nothing of the sort. It is all stacked in favor of the accuser and not the accussed. There is no due process for any student alleged to have committed an off campus sexual offense. The standard of proof is the lowest legal standard allowed. Rules of evidence do not apply. So this means nothing in terms of the merits against any student as to whether that student actually legally committed the alleged offense. People ought to be talking about the injustice of being expelled over an alleged offense you will never be charged with because there is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, much less proof by clear and convincing evidence. Nope, all the "court" as some may call it, considers in an off campus sexual offense is proof by a preponderance of the evidence. This in an injustice for all students and I am ashamed that in our system of justice, administrative rules tied to financing are allowed to ruin students lives who are viewed under the Constitution as innocent. This goes beyond football and while you all are on e-Griz day and night you are slowly losing all of your rights. That is the real story here. I hope the news is not true, but if it is it means nothing in terms of truth.

Unfortunately you seem to be correct that UM in fact takes any womans word and will kick you out of school at the drop of the hat.

I truely dont understand why any person who claims to love america and the life we live here would relish in the destruction of some of the most basic rights that make the USA great. There is no JUSTICE here or even a lesson to be learned other than men are in fact worth less than a woman in the eyes of the University of Montana.

Is Jordan Johnson being charged with a sexual assault or rape? If so that would change the discussion but right now it is based on ONLY an accusation which as of this point has not been concluded to merit a charge in the eyes of the law who have looked at this extensively over the last couple months.

Why is a woman worth more than me or my sons? Arent men and women equal and deserve equal treatment in all respects INCLUDING the right to not be guilty nor judged guilty and punished accordingly until they are charged and found so?

Everyone on here clapping and cheering Engstrom should ask theselves if their son was accused in this case, but after the police and DA reviewed the case and brought no charges if they would support their son being punished in this manner. I sincerly doubt it.

UM president Royce Engstrom is an embarrasment to me as a Montanan and UM alumn. I will drop by his office and personally tell mr Engstrom exactly what I think of him this week if its possible.

With all due respect, as an alumni you're an embarrassment to the University of Montana.

 

[indian-outlaw]

I thought most people on here hated the rule of law, nuanced arguments and ambulance chasing lawyers. I actually agree with Tokyo here except we don’t know the evidence presented and have to assume that it was something more than just her word. It always strikes me funny when everyone screams about tort reform and how they hate lawyers and our country is going to hell because we have too many lawsuits and how defense lawyers have no moral. Then they turn around and the talk about equal representation, presumed innocent, kangaroo courts and witch hunts when it suits them…

 

[Tokyogriz]

The issue is if there was something more than just her word as you say then it would already be in a court of law. Though I dont know any details on this issue, the accusation has been looked overwith a fine tooth comb by the police and DA here.

Are charges being filed as we speak thus changing the parimeters of the conversation? Maybe if so then being expelled makes more sense.

But without such charges this really is a case were a woman is truely judged by the University of Montana to be worth more than a man. I have a daughter and two sons and I love them all equally. My daughter is not worth any more or less than my two young boys. Its wrong for UM to treat women as being more human and valuable than my sons would be.

Rape or sexual assualts are a serious issue and we as a society need to teach our children better to care and respect each other thus reducing these incidents. But its so wrong to destroy the very fabric our society is built on, in this case the right to be innocent of an accusation until charged and then found guilty.

 

[GrizLA]

Maybe Nate Montana will transfer back in.

Or Nick...

Na, Joe knew what was going down in Missoula and got his kid the hell outta there.

Hate to agree with a kittie fan, but could be....if you were Joe Montana, would you want either of your kids in this mess?

But, THIS MESS is not about Joe Montana and his family. This is about the University of Montana, and, the climate that has, apparently, flourished there fairly openly, if many of the posts here reflect anything. And, if it affects the UM it affects the students, the city, staff, and yes, athletics, as well as the State of Montana and the way it looks at rape, sexual assault, proof of crime, etc..
There has been a number of posts mentioning Miami and its reputation. I hope Montana does not fall into that cultural memory. I remember the troubles at Oklohoma during the last years of Wilkerson, and the subsequent years after that, and their recent successes will always be colored by that...an athletic dept totally out of control that felt winning was everything. USC is now recovering from that same ethic...C'mon folks, this is UM, a proud UNIVERSITY that has the wisdom to know the things it can change and having the courage to do it.

 

[mark dyba]

I have followed Montana football for over 65 years. I've watched the ups and downs, so I'm not too suprised by what's going on.I've noticed two things over the years; The bad language of the web site contributers, and the lack of discipline of the football program. The anything goes attitude of the MU football program will be it's undoing. It already has a reputation among the other schools as a rouge program. It needs to be cleaned up and NOW.
MILES CITY

 

[GrizLA]

Cleaning up corruption is not pretty, and Engstrom is cleaning up the corruption in the Griz football program. I can't list all "evidence" of corruption in the program over the last decade, or even before that. But, there are many eGrizzers who have alluded to this, and I believe anyone who has attended UM or has been close to the program has suspected it, if not known it.

The era is over at UM for football players and/or coaches to get preferential treatment for indiscretions and infractions, let alone misdemeanors and felonies. Colleges are cracking down on this stuff. Witness Gregorak's summary firing at UNLV, even before a court found him innocent of the charges against him.

Now, UM football pays the price, but I believe it is a price worth paying. It's been said that there is no such thing as bad PR. Well, that's not true in UM's case. A college football program, whether justifiably or not, has a great impact on a school's image, for better or for worse. In UM's case, it's been for the worse, overshadowing Griz football success in the FCS.

Even though I think Bobby Hauck is a good football coach, if he were still at UM, Engstrom would have fired him. And, I'd still be saying the same thing. It's notable that Hauck is in his 3rd year at UNLV, and there has never been a whiff of scandal, other than the Gregorak episode. I don't think that's accidental; I think Bobby has gotten the message, and I think all football programs around the country have gotten the message, or should, because "it's a different ball game."

Whine, cry, accuse Engstrom all you want, but that's what happens when corruption gets cleaned up, and Engstrom knows that. I don't think he's trying to save his job. Hell, he might be happier going back to teaching chemistry. He's blown the whistle on a corrupt UM football program, and the price has been losing a talented football coach and AD, and perhaps a talented QB and other football players in the process.

Maybe this coming season will be traumatic for the Griz; I doubt it. I believe the Griz will not lose a step next season. They will have a clean coaching staff and clean players, and that's the way it should be, and should have been. Plus, they will still have their fans, eGrizzers among them.

UNLV learned a thing or two from the Tarkanian years where only winning counted...they have never fully recovered...

 

[GrizLA]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

If it was just a "regular student"(sounds like an insult to students who aren't athletes) he wouldn't know about it. Pretty presumptive of you to assume how he would feel about it if he did know. In my experience, folks tend to have the same reaction to identical situations. Assuming they know about them. People believe what they believe. For example, I believe in using TP, not my fingers. You apparently believe otherwise. Since I don't know of any other cases of someone using their fingers, I can't comment on them.