Rachac tweets Jordan Johnson is expelled

[Lady Fan of the Griz]

Does anybody have the actual code of conduct or a link?

http://life.umt.edu/vpsa/student_conduct.php

 

[GrizMusician]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[JBS]

Cleaning up corruption is not pretty, and Engstrom is cleaning up the corruption in the Griz football program. I can't list all "evidence" of corruption in the program over the last decade, or even before that. But, there are many eGrizzers who have alluded to this, and I believe anyone who has attended UM or has been close to the program has suspected it, if not known it.

The era is over at UM for football players and/or coaches to get preferential treatment for indiscretions and infractions, let alone misdemeanors and felonies. Colleges are cracking down on this stuff. Witness Gregorak's summary firing at UNLV, even before a court found him innocent of the charges against him.

Now, UM football pays the price, but I believe it is a price worth paying. It's been said that there is no such thing as bad PR. Well, that's not true in UM's case. A college football program, whether justifiably or not, has a great impact on a school's image, for better or for worse. In UM's case, it's been for the worse, overshadowing Griz football success in the FCS.

Even though I think Bobby Hauck is a good football coach, if he were still at UM, Engstrom would have fired him. And, I'd still be saying the same thing. It's notable that Hauck is in his 3rd year at UNLV, and there has never been a whiff of scandal, other than the Gregorak episode. I don't think that's accidental; I think Bobby has gotten the message, and I think all football programs around the country have gotten the message, or should, because "it's a different ball game."

Whine, cry, accuse Engstrom all you want, but that's what happens when corruption gets cleaned up, and Engstrom knows that. I don't think he's trying to save his job. Hell, he might be happier going back to teaching chemistry. He's blown the whistle on a corrupt UM football program, and the price has been losing a talented football coach and AD, and perhaps a talented QB and other football players in the process.

Maybe this coming season will be traumatic for the Griz; I doubt it. I believe the Griz will not lose a step next season. They will have a clean coaching staff and clean players, and that's the way it should be, and should have been. Plus, they will still have their fans, eGrizzers among them.

I suspect that good grades have been given in exchange for sex at the Law School in the last decade and more. Although I can't list all the "evidence" of this type of corruption, many who have attended the law school suspect it also. They can't list all the "evidence" either.

Tell me, if this corruption is so bad, so prevelant, and so blatant that peoples lives are being damaged as a result, can't you list at least a little "evidence"?

 

[blackfoot griz]

Does anybody have the actual code of conduct or a link?

http://life.umt.edu/vpsa/student_conduct.php

Thanks Lady Fan of the Griz for the link.

What happened the night of the Forester's Ball?
After reading through it, the accused (JJ) has (Section B-1-H) " The right to hear and question witnesses and the accuser."

I question if he is "innocent" why not call her out?

Am I wrong to think if he doesn't do so that that would be some form of an admission of guilt?

 

[Growler1]

Were I a young man considering attending the University of Montana, this action, if indeed true, would convince me to never set foot anywhere near the UM campus the rest of my life. When someone who has never with charged with anything could be expelled from school on the basis of an accusation, then something is very wrong with this world. This would be the ultimate in "being found guilty without any presumption of the possibility of innocence."

And you asked ME to stop posting? This is perhaps the stupidest post in weeks! Get a CLUE!

 

[Growler1]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

 

[Growler1]

Wow, the trashing of women on here is nothing short of appalling. Were any of you there with J Johnson and the alleged victim the night this occurred? You are so concerned about him being judged and yet you judge this woman, call her names and essentially a liar. The only thing I can say with all certainty is that I don't know what happened between them. I absolutely love Griz football and frankly this chapter of the book makes me extremely sad. Winning and being at the top is sure fun but is it worth reputation and respect of others?

The investigation only recently went to the County Attorney's Office. Charging decisions often take more time than people like or understand since TV gives such unrealistic expectations of the system. It remains to be seen whether he will be charged criminally.



This is so much bigger than who will be our quarterback next season.

Great post! All 90% of these so-called fans care about is winning football games, so they can live vicariously through these athletes. They don't care about the image of the team, or the university, or even about the ladies who were raped.

 

[PTGrizzly]

Cleaning up corruption is not pretty, and Engstrom is cleaning up the corruption in the Griz football program. I can't list all "evidence" of corruption in the program over the last decade, or even before that. But, there are many eGrizzers who have alluded to this, and I believe anyone who has attended UM or has been close to the program has suspected it, if not known it.

The era is over at UM for football players and/or coaches to get preferential treatment for indiscretions and infractions, let alone misdemeanors and felonies. Colleges are cracking down on this stuff. Witness Gregorak's summary firing at UNLV, even before a court found him innocent of the charges against him.

Now, UM football pays the price, but I believe it is a price worth paying. It's been said that there is no such thing as bad PR. Well, that's not true in UM's case. A college football program, whether justifiably or not, has a great impact on a school's image, for better or for worse. In UM's case, it's been for the worse, overshadowing Griz football success in the FCS.

Even though I think Bobby Hauck is a good football coach, if he were still at UM, Engstrom would have fired him. And, I'd still be saying the same thing. It's notable that Hauck is in his 3rd year at UNLV, and there has never been a whiff of scandal, other than the Gregorak episode. I don't think that's accidental; I think Bobby has gotten the message, and I think all football programs around the country have gotten the message, or should, because "it's a different ball game."

Whine, cry, accuse Engstrom all you want, but that's what happens when corruption gets cleaned up, and Engstrom knows that. I don't think he's trying to save his job. Hell, he might be happier going back to teaching chemistry. He's blown the whistle on a corrupt UM football program, and the price has been losing a talented football coach and AD, and perhaps a talented QB and other football players in the process.

Maybe this coming season will be traumatic for the Griz; I doubt it. I believe the Griz will not lose a step next season. They will have a clean coaching staff and clean players, and that's the way it should be, and should have been. Plus, they will still have their fans, eGrizzers among them.

I hate myself because I think this might actually be a good post and I really hate agreeing with you.

 

[Growler1]

i heard this was going to happen several months ago from someone who would know this sort of thing (no details were provided). it was well before the rape allegation, so i suspect there is a lot more to the story.

I had heard the same thing, from a Griz athletic official. But, you and I know nothing, argie. We should all defer to Greenie, aka "runs-to-sniff-jocks" for all of the insider scoop.

 

[Growler1]

Cleaning up corruption is not pretty, and Engstrom is cleaning up the corruption in the Griz football program. I can't list all "evidence" of corruption in the program over the last decade, or even before that. But, there are many eGrizzers who have alluded to this, and I believe anyone who has attended UM or has been close to the program has suspected it, if not known it.

The era is over at UM for football players and/or coaches to get preferential treatment for indiscretions and infractions, let alone misdemeanors and felonies. Colleges are cracking down on this stuff. Witness Gregorak's summary firing at UNLV, even before a court found him innocent of the charges against him.

Now, UM football pays the price, but I believe it is a price worth paying. It's been said that there is no such thing as bad PR. Well, that's not true in UM's case. A college football program, whether justifiably or not, has a great impact on a school's image, for better or for worse. In UM's case, it's been for the worse, overshadowing Griz football success in the FCS.

Even though I think Bobby Hauck is a good football coach, if he were still at UM, Engstrom would have fired him. And, I'd still be saying the same thing. It's notable that Hauck is in his 3rd year at UNLV, and there has never been a whiff of scandal, other than the Gregorak episode. I don't think that's accidental; I think Bobby has gotten the message, and I think all football programs around the country have gotten the message, or should, because "it's a different ball game."

Whine, cry, accuse Engstrom all you want, but that's what happens when corruption gets cleaned up, and Engstrom knows that. I don't think he's trying to save his job. Hell, he might be happier going back to teaching chemistry. He's blown the whistle on a corrupt UM football program, and the price has been losing a talented football coach and AD, and perhaps a talented QB and other football players in the process.

Maybe this coming season will be traumatic for the Griz; I doubt it. I believe the Griz will not lose a step next season. They will have a clean coaching staff and clean players, and that's the way it should be, and should have been. Plus, they will still have their fans, eGrizzers among them.

Great post. Except for the parts saying that Hauck was a good coach, and that everything will be fine next football season. I guess my "guarantee" that UM would sign a drop-down QB before the season starts is looking a lot more secure, eh dis-believers? Listen to Brinty and "runs-to-chase-jocks" if you wish, but if you want to get the real insider scoop..........

Oh, notice the conspicuous absence of PR in this thread???

 

[GrizMusician]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

ACTUALLY... I WOULD care. I would care that a student was expelled without cause. I would care that the student had absolutely no due justice.

You're the hypocrite. If you were in JJ's shoes, you would be whining because you didn't get a fair shake, but since you're not in his shoes you don't care.

 

[Growler1]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

ACTUALLY... I WOULD care. I would care that a student was expelled without cause. I would care that the student had absolutely no due justice.

You're the hypocrite. If you were in JJ's shoes, you would be whining because you didn't get a fair shake, but since you're not in his shoes you don't care.

I do not think you could possibly be stupid enough to think that Engstrom summarily kicked JJ out of school without solid cause, but maybe I am wrong about you.

 

[JBS]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

If it was just a "regular student"(sounds like an insult to students who aren't athletes) he wouldn't know about it. Pretty presumptive of you to assume how he would feel about it if he did know. In my experience, folks tend to have the same reaction to identical situations. Assuming they know about them. People believe what they believe. For example, I believe in using TP, not my fingers. You apparently believe otherwise. Since I don't know of any other cases of someone using their fingers, I can't comment on them.

 

[GrizMusician]

It's time for Engstrom to go.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Bullsh*t! If it was just a regular student he expelled for the same offense, you would not care. Don't be a hypocrite, like 90% of the posters in this thread!

ACTUALLY... I WOULD care. I would care that a student was expelled without cause. I would care that the student had absolutely no due justice.

You're the hypocrite. If you were in JJ's shoes, you would be whining because you didn't get a fair shake, but since you're not in his shoes you don't care.

I do not think you could possibly be stupid enough to think that Engstrom summarily kicked JJ out of school without solid cause, but maybe I am wrong about you.

Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. We won't know because Engstrom lacks any transparency to his actions. As far as I'm concerned, unless Engstrom makes it clear why he expelled JJ & why he fired O'Day & Pflugrad, he is totally lacking transparency & it looks REALLY bad IMO. It appears that these people are guilty until proven innocent without any chance at due process.

 

[GrizMusician]

People believe what they believe. For example, I believe in using TP, not my fingers. You apparently believe otherwise. Since I don't know of any other cases of someone using their fingers, I can't comment on them.

This... is comical. :lol:

 

[Hammer]

It was the campus court that expelled JJ. Not sure how much involvement Engstrom had in it. Sounds like the regents can ovveride it if they decide to do so.

 

[GrizMusician]

It was the campus court that expelled JJ. Not sure how much involvement Engstrom had in it. Sounds like the regents can ovveride it if they decide to do so.

From what I understand... you are correct, but I think the next step was Engstrom & he upheld the decision.

BTW, off topic... but have you been up to the distillery? Awesome stuff!!! :thumb:

 

[Hammer]

It was the campus court that expelled JJ. Not sure how much involvement Engstrom had in it. Sounds like the regents can ovveride it if they decide to do so.

From what I understand... you are correct, but I think the next step was Engstrom & he upheld the decision.

BTW, off topic... but have you been up to the distillery? Awesome stuff!!! :thumb:

Haven't yet, not much of a hard liquer guy, but I also have heard it is great.

I'm jacked about the new brewery coming to town tho! :thumb:

 

[Grizzoola]

I am concerned for UofM because this fight between a college and a community has shaken out to be very nasty and very hurtful. My daughter informed me a fews days back she will not be attending Montana and is going "elsewhere." She is fully scholarshipped and has a bright future and it sickens me to learn this. My suggestion is the so called leadership of this institution and the BOR better get this figured out pdq or we'll see enrollment figures drop like a box of rocks. Its not going to be is campus safe but is campus fair. What a shame!!

If your daughter "keeps her nose clean," and dates guys she feels safe with, she'll have no problems at UM. Her question has to be, "What are my chances for being raped at UM?" Rather indelicate, but I'm pointing out that her chances of being raped at UM are less than anywhere else. I have two female relatives in their second year at UM, and so far, neither of them have mentioned transferring or dropping out because of this. Their main concern is making their grades.

Yes, the publicly discussed problem at UM is serious, BUT FOR THE INSTITUTION, NOT FOR THE STUDENTS. No student should opt for another institution, solely for this problem. Your daughter must realize that being away from home, on her own, it is a test of learning about the wider world. She might go to a "safer" school, but eventually, unless she opts to teach at, say, Outlook MT or some other podunk, she'll never again have the security she has had with you.

Have you and she visited UM? Walked around the campus? Got to know people where she'll stay, etc.? Or are you and she just going by the headlines? If you go by the headlines, then perhaps she should just stay near to home for your and her own peace of mind. Her decision where to go to school should be based on other factors than this. She'll be as safe at UM as anywhere. It all depends on her behavior once she gets here.

 

[indian-outlaw]

It has been a long time coming. This is only a chip of the iceberg. Come July and August UM is in for a rude awakening.

I hate innuendo. The huge majority of folks on this board don't even pretend to know the facts, so we give opinions. This doesn't bother me, even though a lot of the opinions are ridiculous. What does bother me is those of you who come off as being in the know and are privy to all the facts, but don't give the facts. If you know something but aren't going to tell us what it is, why even come on here? Either be a full blown whistle blower and tell all, or keep your mouth shut, in my opinion. If you are an insider who is bound not to reveal anything, then what the hell are you doing here? This is actually directed at 2 posters in this thread, you and Indian-Outlaw.

OK, I’ll respond to this. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that JJ is going to Deer Lodge, I really don’t know. Here is what I do know. Just like everyone I have a source. My source is truly someone who has seen the evidence about JJ first hand and it doesn’t look good for him. It’s disturbing to me how many people believe that this is some sort of conspiracy by women to bring down the football team or the Obama administration to get votes. Get a grip people and stop making excuses, it is what it is.

Over the years Missoula and the state of Montana has gotten football crazy. I have been a griz football fan way longer than the vast majority of the fans on this board going back to the dorn blaser days when football was not highly regarded at UM. I love what the griz program has become in the sense that it is one of the premiere FCS teams in the country. What I find disturbing is the fact that so many people have become obsessed with the team. I know scads of people men and women who’s identity is tied to how well the griz football team is. Most of these people have never worn a jock and didn’t even know the griz had a football team prior to 1995. This board is filled with middle aged people and beyond that are clamoring to know all the details of these college aged kids lives. Frankly, I have known several of the players, on past griz teams that everyone worships, that are just plain ol’ assholes.

I am a UM and griz athletic fan, not just a football fan. This problem needs to be dealt with swiftly and forcefully and if you lose a little meat while butchering that’s OK just make sure all the bloodshot is gone.. This will ultimately be a good thing for the UM and grizzly athletics. Attitudes need to change. When athletes start playing the “I’m a grizzly football player” card to get out of trouble you know you’ve got problems ahead and that had been going on in Missoula for quite some time now.

I know it will never happen but we could field wrestling, baseball and hockey and be competitive at the highest levels of collegiate athletics in all three within a few short year